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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:53 Shifft wrote: Oh please, Puma is an amazing player and I'm sure a ton of Koreans will be perfectly happy to practice with him. But what's the point of recruiting him if he stays in korea ? I don't understand. We don't know yet (?), but if they recruited him and he doesn't go to the EG house, I don't understand. | ||
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Wpirit
4 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:52 Dariusz wrote: And players will play where they want to play and make more money? Oh so terrible... Exactly, there is NOTHING unethical about this. Puma is taking the better deal. Hell, there is no reason for any of you to be upset as it doesn't concern you at all. You're just bored and want to be sucked into the mob mentality. Grow the fuck up. | ||
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QuoteSky
United States38 Posts
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Grimsong
United States252 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:44 Walls wrote: directed towards the managers of EG: This is disgusting, E-sports is too young to become this corrupted and/or monopolized. I am in support of laws against this type of act and am willing to vote in polls and do everything I can to stop teams with a lower skill level from buying everything out instead of trying to get better on their own. this will hurt us in the long run. Right, players having the chance to do what they want is going to hurt "us" in the long run. It's crazy to see, from a sports addicts perspective, how under developed the theories on team/player relation and rights is in a medium that has never really developed leagues/teams on that scale. Lets make sure the teams have all of the power so the players can be crushed since they have nothing protecting them. Fantastic idea. | ||
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VillageBC
322 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:54 Proko wrote: You sure? I get the sense you are saying a lot more than you know. Reminds me a bit of the FFXIII, slap in the face to Japanese because it was released on the X360 rant that happened when that bombshell news was released. =) | ||
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ptbl
United States6074 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:54 Proko wrote: You sure? I get the sense you are saying a lot more than you know. Playxp and the twitters of many the korean pros are pretty negative towards EG and Puma. You can access playxp here http://www.playxp.com/ | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
Though, I guess I can sort of understand to a certain extent the frustrations of the coach. Feeling like he was sort of blind sided, but at the same time it's Puma's decision as to what team he stays on. I mean alternatively, what could have EG done? Contact the coach and broker a deal with him which would have resulted in the coach either being the middle man and getting a cut or the coach saying "no way" and not telling Puma. I suppose they could have had a conference call with Puma and the coach at the same time and made their intentions known. At any rate, this stuff happens all the time in baseball, football, soccer, etc. etc. and Puma should decided where Puma wants to go. Congratulations to EG..you just aquired yourself one hell of a gamer and a training partner. This may actually raise the game playing level for us non-koreans or at least for EG. EG just hit the big time for SC2. | ||
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GeorgeForeman
United States1746 Posts
FWIW, I think it was also a dick move by EG to approach the player directly rather than going through his representation. I doubt TSL would've blocked it if EG had called them and said that they were interested in acquiring Puma. ETA: I have no problem with Puma seeking a better opprotunity. If he thinks he'll be better off on EG, that's his business as long as he gets released from contractual obligations to TSL. | ||
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Walls
United States172 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:52 me_viet wrote: What on earth are you talking about? Last I check, competitive sc2 is pre-dominantly 1v1. We should be concerned about the players' well-being rather than the corporations/companies supporting them. I say, if PuMa feels that EG values his skills more than TSL and offers better compensation than why not? I can't care less what foreign team a player is on, I only care about their individual performance. Hell I used to think jinro/ret/idra/morrow/white-ra all played on the same team cause they were always together in the tournament brackets. Only time team matters is in the GSTL, but even then, one player can carry a team (eg. MVPDongRaeGu). It's these kind of things that makes players want to get better. So that they can be compensated and supported They should not be able to just buy out players, this is not the way to do it. the coach puts everything into a player and then a team like EG with putting less effort just goes ahead and buys out the players? I say No. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:52 Dariusz wrote: And players will play where they want to play and make more money? Oh so terrible... If a player is unhappy with his situation and wants to join another team, then I don't see what's stopping them from leaving the team to do so. Like Fruitdealer and Tester. And Rain. However, when you introduce what EG did, then you can end up killing a team. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:54 Walls wrote: Another reason why this is very bad and has no side of morality to it. Think of the TSL coach as someone who works really hard and with everything he has in his power to improve a player on his team, he comes up with tactics and coaching strategies, he comes up with good practice partners for his team... while team EG is doing much less to improve, but then all of sudden team EG goes and buys out puma without even talking to the coach. think about it for a second. The reason the TSL coach works hard to improve his players is presumably so that they can represent the team well. PuMa did that for TSL; now he's moving on. TSL could have anticipated this possibility. Without any indication that PuMa has breached his contract with TSL, it's impossible to say that the coach was betrayed. The position you are taking is that PuMa owed the TSL coach something that he never agreed to provide. Edit: I think that the discussion in this thread might be informed by some understanding of how team-favored rules, regulations, and (thus) contracts have hampered the BW scene. At the end of this article is something I wrote a while ago that addressed the topic (there are definitely better reads on this topic out there, but this is one I remember). | ||
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:56 ptbl wrote: Playxp and the twitters of many the korean pros are pretty negative towards EG and Puma. You can access playxp here http://www.playxp.com/ People angry about the trade /= not practice with him. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:54 Walls wrote: Another reason why this is very bad and has no side of morality to it. Think of the TSL coach as someone who works really hard and with everything he has in his power to improve a player on his team, he comes up with tactics and coaching strategies, he comes up with good practice partners for his team... while team EG is doing much less to improve, but then all of sudden team EG goes and buys out puma without even talking to the coach. think about it for a second. Don't act like you know what goes on in the TSL team-house. Remember that FruitDealer and Trickster only recently left TSL as well. They didn't go to a foreign team, but it's clear something isn't sitting well with some TSL members. I won't pretend to know what it is, but the bottom line is that if the coach was really creating this fantastical place to live and play like you assume, PuMa wouldn't have left. Let's wait for an official statement before we assume PuMa did this solely for money and not because he liked the foreign scene when he came and conquered NASL. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:21 f0ol wrote: China, but relevant. Worth the read in my opinion. 7-deadly-perceptions-about-doing-business-with-china Basically Asian countries have a different understanding contracts and obligations. QTF. I'm amazed that people telling TSL is in the wrong here. I know TSL is falling apart, and it's better for players to leave them, but in this particular case, TSL did nothing wrong. Unlike the popular western belief, in a lot of countries, you can't just write something on a piece of paper, sign your name and call it a contract/agreement. I can't just go to a random convenient store, write my phone number and signature on the receipt and tell them if I don't pay they can sue me. In Asia, most people don't want anything to do with the government because it takes awful bureaucracy system. That's why people avoid and afraid to go in any form of contract. I know a lot of companies (small companies of course) that don't even have contract with their employees. It's not unusual to see relationship-oriented business, especially in this kind of industry where each team doesn't have solid sponsorship like EG yet. So yes, it's a moral code of conduct that you have to contact the managers/coaches before approaching the players, and EG broke that code. Even though EG is legally right, they make a bad name of themselves and the Koreans are beginning to aware, and I doubt they can expand their business in Korea. | ||
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WarpMePlz
United Kingdom76 Posts
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:56 ptbl wrote: Playxp and the twitters of many the korean pros are pretty negative towards EG and Puma. You can access playxp here http://www.playxp.com/ Ever heard of the vocal minority? | ||
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Walls
United States172 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:57 JinDesu wrote: If a player is unhappy with his situation and wants to join another team, then I don't see what's stopping them from leaving the team to do so. Like Fruitdealer and Tester. And Rain. However, when you introduce what EG did, then you can end up killing a team. This is similar in a way to the situation in the middle east with college students, the foreign colleges just buy out all the good students, BUT here is the big difference, the foreign colleges have better professors teaching their student and they have better labs and everything, this is obscene! | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
Ever heard of Asian culture? Betrayal (and so far a lot of the korean comments seem to call it such) is enormously disliked in asian culture. | ||
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poorbeggarman
139 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:44 00Visor wrote: Milkis twitter Wooju Lee OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee FYI: It's a sign of RESPECT more than anything to talk to the team before contacting the player. Wooju Lee OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Korean Netizens also very disappointed in Puma. Not surprised. If you're surprised then you need to understand our culture a bit better http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis Is TSL expecting some sort of monetary compensation from EG for signing Puma on? Because if they did have a contract with him, EG or Puma himself would probably have to go through the managers and pay a settlement for breaching it. If TSL didn't have a contract, all they can do is stamp their feet if EG approaches them anyway. Other than more questionable actions like maybe withholding the information from Puma, getting him to sign a contract with them in the meantime. Puma did leave, so they probably couldn't persuade him to stay, nor make a better offer than EG. | ||
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Walls
United States172 Posts
On July 22 2011 00:58 ZasZ. wrote: Don't act like you know what goes on in the TSL team-house. Remember that FruitDealer and Trickster only recently left TSL as well. They didn't go to a foreign team, but it's clear something isn't sitting well with some TSL members. I won't pretend to know what it is, but the bottom line is that if the coach was really creating this fantastical place to live and play like you assume, PuMa wouldn't have left. Let's wait for an official statement before we assume PuMa did this solely for money and not because he liked the foreign scene when he came and conquered NASL. You are trying to prove your point by acting like you know more than me about TSL and coach Lee who is the nicest coach on the planet. but then I read the rest of your post and then you admit you dont know much about TSL, | ||
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