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Wow, at first when I heard about this I didn't realize EG would do something as dirty as just talking to the player, and going around the coaching/managing staff, and stealing it from another team. Dick move if you ask me.
I don't mind that it is a Korean player going to a foreign team, just because he is Korean doesn't really mean that he has to be on a Korean team and that foreign teams should stay away from him.
However, I didn't ever root for EG before, the only one I've ever liked on EG has been Idra, and I liked him before he was EG. I never had a reason to dislike EG though, so I cheered for them as a foreign team fighting for western esports, you know? But I can't really do that anymore, in no other sport do teams just go straight to players asking them to join their team, their is a system where you talk with all parties involved(unless they are being dicks, and in that case controversy like this is sparked); so sorry EG, but I no longer respect you as much as I did as an organization.
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On July 22 2011 01:05 jiveturkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 00:53 JWD wrote:This kind of competition between teams can only be good for the players. Power to PuMa for doing what he feels is best for himself. On July 22 2011 00:53 IceSlipper wrote:On July 22 2011 00:52 Dariusz wrote:On July 22 2011 00:48 Fulgrim wrote:
We can't support this poaching of a player like this, otherwise it'll become an acceptable and common habit. And players will play where they want to play and make more money? Oh so terrible... And be flip flopping wherever and whenever they please, so nobody will want to start up a team? Oh so wonderful... As countless people in this thread have pointed out, if a team is worried about losing its players to a competitor it can bargain for a clause in a player's contract that will punish the player for terminating the contract early. Best post I've seen. People that cannot compete do not like competition. We see this is poltical/economic discussion all the time. A good example is the AMD suits against Intel. There is a way of preventing players from leaving teams, and that is stipulations in the contracts. But no player would sign a contract like this because it is not in their best interest to sign something which says you cannot take a better offer if you have the opportunity. I do not see a problem legally or ethically. If Korean culture has an issue with this sort of thing, then that's a problem for Koreans to deal with. But it is not objectively unethical business deal. It's a typical case of mutually beneficial trade between 2 consenting parties. This is a good thing that not all cultures have accepted.
That will happen and must happen, no more lesser team buying out players from better teams. No it should be visa verse.
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Grats to puma and to EG!!
POWER TO THE PLAYERS.
We don't want another KeSPA for sc2...
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On July 22 2011 01:06 Proko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:04 namedplayer wrote:On July 22 2011 00:53 Shifft wrote:On July 22 2011 00:51 namedplayer wrote:
Puma will never get KOREAN practice partners because of this. He should just move to america. Oh please, Puma is an amazing player and I'm sure a ton of Koreans will be perfectly happy to practice with him. nah. there are so many great terrans as strong as Puma in korea. they don't bother to practice with ungrateful traitor like Puma it's cultural thing. Puma's skill will go down soon or later. wow, "ungrateful traitor" ??? That seems awfully hateful.
that's how they feel. again it's cultural thing.
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Red rover, red rover... we call puma over!
(sorry)
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In many sports, you aren't allowed to contact players who are signed with a team directly without first contacting their team (European soccer is a great example). Part of the reason this is so is precisely to prevent situations such as these. It's simply unethical to poach a player from another team without first contacting his team. TSL invested in Puma before he became successful, and now it just feels like EG (who has more money) poached him away once he became successful leaving essentially nothing for TSL.
Obviously, there might be underlying factors other than what has been revealed, but given what we know about the current situation, I feel this is a terrible move by EG.
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This seems huge for western esports, it's looking like it might become similar to WC3 where teams had both foreign and korean/chinese players mixed together.
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On July 22 2011 01:04 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 00:53 Shifft wrote:On July 22 2011 00:51 namedplayer wrote:
Puma will never get KOREAN practice partners because of this. He should just move to america. Oh please, Puma is an amazing player and I'm sure a ton of Koreans will be perfectly happy to practice with him. nah. there are so many great terrans as strong as Puma in korea. they don't bother to practice with ungrateful traitor like Puma it's cultural thing. Puma's skill will go down soon or later.
You act like you've spoken to all the terrans in the Korean GM league. Stop making terrible guesses and theories about what other players are going to do. There are upset players and other who don't care and those who support Puma doing the best for himself.
Why do people on these forums think we live in Utopia and trust me Korea is changing.
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On July 22 2011 01:05 Luppy1 wrote:
I would agree with Milkis. Really no respect at all. I feel this is entirely about ethnics and values. Also, this isn't surprising for me that so many people in the west simply don't get what's so wrong about this. Some of you are just brought up differently and have a different set of values.
Some of you are saying it like there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it's done simply because there's no rule that disallows this from happening. I was going to give an example. But, I'm pretty sure someone will just intentionally look at the example from an extreme point of view just to say it's invalid.
Then give the example. What you have done now is make a post that adds nothing to the discussion and only complains.
Very helpful.
It should not be about ethics or values at all. It's about what is best for the player. Why can you not understand that? Are you too ignorant to realize that teams do nothing for the game except gives the players some money and management? It's the players that play the games.
You even admit that not everyone has the same set of values. If that is the case, why are you expecting all of the west to follow the korean set of values when they don't share ours? That's so fricken hypocritical.
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On July 22 2011 01:07 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:06 Proko wrote:On July 22 2011 01:04 namedplayer wrote:On July 22 2011 00:53 Shifft wrote:On July 22 2011 00:51 namedplayer wrote:
Puma will never get KOREAN practice partners because of this. He should just move to america. Oh please, Puma is an amazing player and I'm sure a ton of Koreans will be perfectly happy to practice with him. nah. there are so many great terrans as strong as Puma in korea. they don't bother to practice with ungrateful traitor like Puma it's cultural thing. Puma's skill will go down soon or later. wow, "ungrateful traitor" ??? That seems awfully hateful. that's how they feel. again it's cultural thing.
says the guy who speaks for all koreans.
User was warned for this post
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absolutely love this! gz EG and puma!
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On July 22 2011 01:07 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:06 Proko wrote:On July 22 2011 01:04 namedplayer wrote:On July 22 2011 00:53 Shifft wrote:On July 22 2011 00:51 namedplayer wrote:
Puma will never get KOREAN practice partners because of this. He should just move to america. Oh please, Puma is an amazing player and I'm sure a ton of Koreans will be perfectly happy to practice with him. nah. there are so many great terrans as strong as Puma in korea. they don't bother to practice with ungrateful traitor like Puma it's cultural thing. Puma's skill will go down soon or later. wow, "ungrateful traitor" ??? That seems awfully hateful. that's how they feel. again it's cultural thing.
See, koreans don't like it, respectful foreigners don't like it,
this is a shameful act done by a lesser-but-richer team
Coach lee is a nice old timer who has been around for ever, everyone knows him and he doesnt treat his players badly,
this was purely money, team EG is trying to monopolize e-sports.
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On July 22 2011 01:05 Luppy1 wrote:
I would agree with Milkis. Really no respect at all. I feel this is entirely about ethnics and values. Also, this isn't surprising for me that so many people in the west simply don't get what's so wrong about this. Some of you are just brought up differently and have a different set of values.
Some of you are saying it like there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it's done simply because there's no rule that disallows this from happening. I was going to give an example. But, I'm pretty sure someone will just intentionally look at the example from an extreme point of view just to say it's invalid. It's unethical from your point of view, and ethical from other people's perspective. That does not mean that it is unethical. It is what it is. The transaction took place, and two parties benefit and one party loses out. That is the fact of the matter, and all of your moral issues with it are completely opinion, and that is all. And I think it's obvious that law is completely irrelevant to morality, I don't think many people would disagree with that.
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Congrats! SC2 has gotten to the point that the team managers are acting like other sports teams! That's progress.
As for the people complaining about EG buying up good players... that's the result of progress. FXO did the same thing, as did many other teams. There is more money on the scene, so the smaller teams can't afford to monopolize the best players. And more money means SC2 is successfully growing into a legitimate sport. Eventually, we'll see a regulatory commitee put limits on team spending budgets and the like, just like other sports.
Welcome to the evolution of e-sports... it's what we all wanted. Some people didn't think through all the implications of this success, and they're the vocal minority causing all the ruckus.
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This makes pro SC2 look like it's run by teenagers. Sign a contract with the players you want to hold bro. Not because people are evil (heh), but because ESPORTS is serious business.
Best of luck to Puma and EG.
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Win NASL...change teams. lol
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On July 22 2011 01:11 Cheshyr wrote:
Congrats! SC2 has gotten to the point that the team managers are acting like other sports teams! That's progress.
As for the people complaining about EG buying up good players... that's the result of progress. FXO did the same thing, as did many other teams. There is more money on the scene, so the smaller teams can't afford to monopolize the best players. And more money means SC2 is successfully growing into a legitimate sport. Eventually, we'll see a regulatory commitee put limits on team spending budgets and the like, just like other sports.
Welcome to the evolution of e-sports... it's what we all wanted. Some people didn't think through all the implications of this success, and they're the vocal minority causing all the ruckus.
I'm sure FXO worked with the management for what they did. Don't lump them in like that.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
There is a funny parallel to the Koreans coming over and taking 1st place in many foreigner tournaments. Right now we can't compete with them, but it is universally agreed that competing with Koreans raises competition, and forces us to get better.
TSL being unable to compete with EG mirrors this. There is going to be competition for top Korean talent, and if smaller Korean team cannot always guarantee that they will get the best players, then they will have to raise their game. Competition will drive the best talent to the biggest teams.
Whether you think this is right is another point entirely, but the way it mirrors Koreans being more competitive in foreign tournaments is interesting.
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Looking at it from an external I do not like this very much, it's really looking like EG abusing the lack of strong contract between Puma and TSL.
However I'll reserve my judgment until having heard some official statement from EG itself.
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On July 22 2011 01:05 Luppy1 wrote:
Some of you are saying it like there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it's done simply because there's no rule that disallows this from happening.
Yes.
And?
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EPT
