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On June 12 2011 15:36 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Then don't watch.
The same should go for people who are offended by Tasteless saying "sex", I'm assuming.
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On June 12 2011 15:38 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:36 Baarn wrote:On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Then don't watch. The same should go for people who are offended by Tasteless saying "sex", I'm assuming.
I wouldn't notice. Does the tail have to wag the dog here?
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On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
how am i trolling? i'm presenting a scenario of what you think what should be done if someone is offended by the use of the word "nuke" just like how you think people are offended by the word "sex"
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He prematurely GGs too much.
Also, in general, Tastosis kill hype by either just going silent during epic battles, failing to compliment epic battles with epic commentary, and once again, GG'ing before a player does so.
A commentator/caster's job is to make viewing more interesting, as well as give some insight to the game going on. GG'ing before a player does not make any sense because it's like they're saying "ok, i'm too lazy to try to think of a way to still make this game seem epic, I'll just tell viewers I think the game will end soon and I don't think there will be a comeback". I understand when it's completely GG, but when they do it after a battle when it's in the lategame and both people still have big economies or other situations where the advantage isn't very defined, it's very disappointing.
Tl;dr Premature GG is the opposite of the purpose of a commentator/caster, please stop doing it Tastosis.
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Disagree- Tasteless stay as you are !!
Edit: and lol at 'dont say sex'.
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On June 12 2011 15:35 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:30 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:25 Xova wrote:
Tasteless is by FAR one of the best and most experienced casters in the scene. Him and Artosis flow so well together it's unreal.
If someone is offended by the word "sex" they probably shouldn't be on the internet at all. Sex is everywhere. I watched the GSL where he used the word as well, he didn't even use it in a bad way in any shape or form. Here we go again, why the exclusion? Do we want kids' moms to cut them off from anything SC2 related because a pair of casters talked about sex? Is this the kind of impression we want to be giving to the public? See, this thing again. I feel the content presented during the cast is age appropriate to the content of the game. This argument is essentially like saying, "Why not make all those PG-13 movies PG by removing the sexual content so kids can watch it" regardless of whether the content would be age appropriate even with the adjustments. In the case of Starcraft 2, I don't think it's a worthwhile argument to use, the content is still going to be somewhat age restrictive and within that age expectation the word "sex" is pretty appropriate.
I understand what you're saying, and you're absolutely right when talking about movies. PG-13 are geared towards a specific audience, as are PG movies. The thing with SC2 is that we don't have a humongous audience yet, so I don't think that using age-restrictive language would help our cause. It may feel like "selling out" a bit if casters tone down their language, but I think it would be worth it if it gains more viewers. That being said, I don't know how many more viewers being more appropriate would gain, but I just don't like the idea of turning certain age groups away when they could be a huge part of the SC2 community. Again, the question of whether it's worth it or not is up in the air, so I understand your position on this.
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On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
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There is nothing wrong with how Tasteless casts. He's funny, experienced, knowledgable, and very entertaining. Not sure why this was even posted to be quite honest since he's part of the best casting duo in SC2.
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On June 12 2011 15:39 emecee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible. how am i trolling? i'm presenting a scenario of what you think what should be done if someone is offended by the use of the word "nuke" just like how you think people are offended by the word "sex"
You're trolling because you're using someone else's argument in a completely different situation. This isn't a slippery slope here, it's just about sex. Your hyperbole only works in the cases of people who don't care about taking responsibility for SC2. Tasteless is a global representative of e-sports, and more importantly he EMBRACES this role. Destiny is perfectly fine using that argument because he doesn't want to be a representative. He just wants to feed his family.
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But Tastless why can't you be a perfect caster (in tastless mocking voice). I can only imagine him saying that if he looked at this thread.
I love listening to Tastosis and Tastless does a good job and is funny as hell to boot. I don't mind some of his "slip ups" and even when he asks a dumb question to Artosis, it is because he is trying to make a discussion in downtime.
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On June 12 2011 15:42 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible. Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter. It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate. Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
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ehhh, you guys seem to forget that Tasteless isnt some random youtube commentator who gets to do whatever he wants. He does have a boss and there are producers who talk to him while he's on air over his headset. They set the rules and standards that he has to abide by. Sure he can do things to change it up, but at the end of the day, he does have a team around him to give him this type of feedback. If GOM thinks it's fine, then he's going to do it. The GSL takes place at 4AM in the morning. Who's watching it but adults who can stay up or buy the VODs. IMO organizations like MLG and GOM are really tame and do a good job with the casting standards that they have in place.
Edit: Also guys, this is why we have other casters. Each one will satisfy your interests in someway. I dont listen to only one caster and on some days, I'm in the mood for certain casters.
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Of course people on TL are going to shut you down when you post something like this, because TL represents a very nerdy niche market which is completely tasteless' target market, not the future of e-sports. Constructive criticism like this is something that all casters should pay attention to if esports ever wants to grow beyond such a market.
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Except this isn't all that constructive, its a very small niche of people trying to force casters to perform how they see fit. It doesn't matter of 99% of everyone else likes them just they way they are, that 1% wants change.
Just consider Tasteless a priceless piece of artwork, just because you may find something offensive or simply not like it doesn't mean you should EVER change it, keep your hands off thanks.
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On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote:
I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
Don't get me wrong, i too am a tastosis fan, i think they are probably the only casters that come close to the OSL casters from bw (in terms of commentating and entertainment). Especially artosis, i think he is by FAR the best commentator from the GSL (personal preference obviously). him and tasteless make a great combo, and I know that those two are and will be the best english speaking commentating the sport has to offer.
But that doesn't deny the fact that changes need to be made. Like I said, this relaxed, casting-on-the-couch style from tastois doesn't bother me AT ALL. I think it's what makes them fun and separates them from the strict style of commentating that korean broodwar casters use.
In fact, mentioning sex during casting did not offend me personally in any way. I found the joke to be funny actually, and i'm not too keen on following rules to the last letter or anything like that. But, that's only valid for certain demographics. If you want the sport to be accepted by a larger audience, there is a level of professionalism that must be met. Or do you actually think NBA, NHL commentators talk how they do on TV because they are all boring people in real life? (i'm not comparing esport to any of these leagues, but just making a point). I'm not suggesting them to become strict and boring. cuz like i said, I :LIKE the way they do casting. BUT THERE IS A STANDARD IN SOCIETY THAT must be met, or it will create nothing but bad images for the sport. I don't care if you or I aren't offended by the sex jokes, cuz ITS NOT ABOUT THAT.
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I think some of this only speaks to how comfortable they really are casting. Whether that's good or bad, I'm not one to make that call, but I do enjoy Tasteosis.
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On June 12 2011 15:46 Melange wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:42 Mordiford wrote:On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible. Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter. It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate. Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex". I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
But that's a lot of unknowns to make any kind of sacrifice for, it goes back to the earlier example...
Alright, sure they could cut the language out of X movie and possible attract Y audience, but would why remove some element of content that is adding something, whether it be humor, emotion etc.
It's a different category, but it's a botched standard that varies from region to region and you genuinely can't please everyone so you stick with the level of age restrictiveness you have an assume that it will be exposed to people for whom it's age appropriate or by parents who are fine with the content. Anything else and you're making an argument for change with no real reasoning.
I laughed at the "flat tire of sex" joke. If a parent is fine with exposing their child to violence but not the word "sex" then those are the standards that they set, and they are standards I don't support. You'll find that these standards vary greatly from region to region and if you want to accommodate one's aversion then you have to start accommodating more of them until you get to an awkward situation, so you make a reasonable cut off and that's where we're at, the content is age appropriate to the content of the game.
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On June 12 2011 15:47 statikg wrote:
Of course people on TL are going to shut you down when you post something like this, because TL represents a very nerdy niche market which is completely tasteless' target market, not the future of e-sports. Constructive criticism like this is something that all casters should pay attention to if esports ever wants to grow beyond such a market.
This. It's not about pleasing the minority "1%" of people, it's about making the thousands of people who love SC2 and making that tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands.
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No way sorry OP tasteless is who he is, and thats just perfect for me
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He used to do the "uhhh" "ummmm" thing way too much. I think he listened to the criticism and adapted, he's doing nicely right now and talking about sex isn't bad: think about the demographic that's watching him, it's probably 20-30 year old gamer males.
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EPT
