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Constructive criticism:
We need more homolust. Get closer to Artosis, but don't get too close. Just close enough to create tension, but then back off. Keep us on the edge of the seat, wondering if that is THE moment when something will happen.
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Saying 'sex' is not a real problem.
I would appreciate if Artosis and Tasteless would stop bitching on-air about criticism they receive, however.
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On June 12 2011 16:00 Melange wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:56 Mordiford wrote:On June 12 2011 15:48 pc_room_freak wrote:On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote:
I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing. Don't get me wrong, i too am a tastosis fan, i think they are probably the only casters that come close to the OSL casters from bw (in terms of commentating and entertainment). Especially artosis, i think he is by FAR the best commentator from the GSL (personal preference obviously). him and tasteless make a great combo, and I know that those two are and will be the best english speaking commentating the sport has to offer. But that doesn't deny the fact that changes need to be made. Like I said, this relaxed, casting-on-the-couch style from tastois doesn't bother me AT ALL. I think it's what makes them fun and separates them from the strict style of commentating that korean broodwar casters use. In fact, mentioning sex during casting did not offend me personally in any way. I found the joke to be funny actually, and i'm not too keen on following rules to the last letter or anything like that. But, that's only valid for certain demographics. If you want the sport to be accepted by a larger audience, there is a level of professionalism that must be met. Or do you actually think NBA, NHL commentators talk how they do on TV because they are all boring people in real life? (i'm not comparing esport to any of these leagues, but just making a point). I'm not suggesting them to become strict and boring. cuz like i said, I :LIKE the way they do casting. BUT THERE IS A STANDARD IN SOCIETY THAT must be met, or it will create nothing but bad images for the sport. I don't care if you or I aren't offended by the sex jokes, cuz ITS NOT ABOUT THAT. Whose standards though? If we go by the youngest audience we want for the game and then appropriate it to the standards of Europe or North America, or Korea or whatever, we'll get a different set of what's acceptable and unacceptable and furthermore based on demographics. So we set a fair standard of what's appropriate based on the baseline content of the game. The content of the GSL casts are perfectly acceptable for that. I agree with what you're saying about how it turns into an awkward situation because you can't meet EVERYONE's standards. But i disagree with you saying that "sex" is appropriated based on the baseline content of the game. SC2 has no mention of sex, and that alone should be enough to stop talking about sex. If there is no sex in sc2, how is appropriate based on the baseline content of the game like you claim?
Just because Starcraft 2 has no implicit mention of sex does not have an effect on the actual age expectation for the audience, that's just relevant to what each individual parent finds appropriate. I don't see the point in making an arbitrary selection when we have some basic baselines for age expectation and the content is geared towards that.
If you want to accommodate that audience, there are a number of other people you could accommodate using similar reasoning but you quickly reach a point where the original content that people liked is heavily neutered and not as good anymore. This has been seen numerous times with televisions shows that are neutered to attempt to appeal to a wider audience and fail miserably.
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What is the purpose of this post? Do you think tasteless will read this and want to take your advice? It seems like you just want to complain. I would say the vast majority of people that tune into the GSL english stream enjoy tasteless and I really doubt that is going to change.
I guess if you just posted because you want to be herd and vent. Well I hope that urge inside has been satisfied because this post is actually useless.
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On June 12 2011 16:08 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:46 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:42 Mordiford wrote:On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible. Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter. It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate. Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex". I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about. One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that.
If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image.
Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
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I had a lot of complains about tasteless in the GSL debut (namely he didn't knew the game at all) but he's way better now, and way more comfortable with the game. In fact, he's so comfortable now that he starts cutting artosis a LOT, which is becoming annoying, as artosis always has something to say when he talks (what I mean is he never just fill air time with empty sentences), and tasteless often (always) cut him for saying stuff like "he's so good" or other generic fill time phrases.
But I have no real complain, tasteless has improved a lot sc2 wise, my above rant is more "the better is the good enemy".
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Tasteless is a god, dont ever pick on him!
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Tasteless and artosis are unique. The last time people wanted professional casting DoaTrap was shown and then people complained about it being too boring and repetitive.
I love tastosis chemistry, its just their happy going attitude paired with artosis' knowledge that brings me into GSL
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I haven't been watching GSL as much as I'd like to, but I've always appreciated Tasteless and his casting.
Expecting Tasteless to be more analytical like Artosis is like expecting Ernie to be more like Bert. It would totally ruin their chemistry and their dual casting would have an entirely different feel.
Tasteless keeps the commentary light and brisk, sets up Artosis for analysis and does all the dirty work like plugging sponsors and filling dead air. I would argue that Tasteless is an excellent listener -- he knows how to draw more out of Artosis, when Artosis needs to be 'saved' and when Artosis needs to be cut off.
They are the best casting duo out there. Not only do they both have a very deep understanding of the game and the scene, but their chemistry is the kind that develops only after years of genuine friendship off-screen.
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A lot of the reason I tune in is for the banter of Tastosis (or to watch LoneWolf slowly decend into madness). I've always loved how they have that laid-back couple of guys watching the game kind of feel to them. So yeah, I'd rather not see either of them try to censor themselves or worrying about every word they say.
Also, I can't speak for other counties, but in Australia most people will recieve sex-ed at ages 11 - 13. Is there really anyone younger than that watching the broadcast? Well, they probably shouldn't be seeing as Starcraft 2 has a Teen rating.
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On June 12 2011 16:28 pc_room_freak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 16:08 Baarn wrote:On June 12 2011 15:46 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:42 Mordiford wrote:On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible. Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter. It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate. Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex". I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about. One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious? ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do. But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here. If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that. If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image. Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
That's a stupid comparison, the GSL, particularly the foreign cast is certainly not comparable to spongebob squarepants, it has it's own base-line age expectation. I don't think it's an issue at all, the GSL isn't Manswers, but it certainly isn't Spongebob either, it has it's own level of appropriateness that lies in the middle and it works perfectly fine. I view the level of content of the cast to be perfectly normal for whom I'd expect to watch the GSL.
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Never change tastosis, you're the main reason I watch GSL !
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On June 12 2011 16:28 pc_room_freak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 16:08 Baarn wrote:On June 12 2011 15:46 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:42 Mordiford wrote:On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible. Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter. It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate. Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex". I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about. One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious? ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do. But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here. If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that. If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image. Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
Ok so your best argument here is that children that are up at 2am-4am (god knows why the parents allow their kids to stay up those hours) hear one joke and now this is gonna be an ongoing thing? I don't see a reason to get all chicken little over this when there are other factors that need to be considered when you are involved with a pg 13 game.
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Plz never change Tasteless you are a sexy devil and are doing everything awesome!
I could not disagree more with the professional thing (maybe the sex bit, I don't even remember it tbh) but if he becomes professional he will become boring and less funny, not a worthy sacrifice for anything.
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On June 12 2011 16:36 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 16:28 pc_room_freak wrote:On June 12 2011 16:08 Baarn wrote:On June 12 2011 15:46 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:42 Mordiford wrote:On June 12 2011 15:38 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:34 emecee wrote:On June 12 2011 15:29 Melange wrote:On June 12 2011 15:13 wester25 wrote:
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway. That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters. That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in. what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"? Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible. Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter. It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate. Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex". I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about. One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious? ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do. But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here. If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that. If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image. Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view. Ok so your best argument here is that children that are up at 2am-4am (god knows why the parents allow their kids to stay up those hours) hear one joke and now this is gonna be an ongoing thing? I don't see a reason to get all chicken little over this when there are other factors that need to be considered when you are involved with a pg 13 game.
Yeah this pretty much summed up what I wanted to say. This game contains violence yet you can't allow for some wiggle room for one joke mentioning sex...it just doesn't make sense.
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I love tastosis and I disagree with all your points, but I guess that's your preference = /
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Just want to say point number 3 is possibly the most insulting thing you could say to the guy.
He was pushing professionalism in e-sports casting before you'd even heard the term.
The ultimate irony is that if he had never gotten on that plane so many years ago and built a MASSIVE reputation in Korea based on his professionalism alone there might not even be GSL casts in English.
Tasteless laid the ground work at GOM during SC1 so the transition to SC2 was so seamless.
He's possibly been the most important foreigner on Korean soil as far as progressing e-sports goes.
I don't think you could be any more disrespectful or ungrateful.
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+ Show Spoiler +
seriously though, part of his charm is his laid back style
and i see what you mean by his repetitive word usage, but its not like he is saying "good" 30 times in a row.
As for experience he is one of the most experienced casters
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On June 12 2011 16:39 Phenny wrote:
Plz never change Tasteless you are a sexy devil and are doing everything awesome!
I could not disagree more with the professional thing (maybe the sex bit, I don't even remember it tbh) but if he becomes professional he will become boring and less funny, not a worthy sacrifice for anything.
Never said they had to be professional to the point where they are boring. I like their lax style alot too. But there is a bare minimum standard. Otherwise casters can cast naked and they wouldn't need to fix it, because the community might think acting any more professional will make them "boring". =/
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EPT
