EPT[SC2 Foreigner Scene] Nowhere to Go but Up - Page 5
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NeWeNiyaLord
Norway2474 Posts
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Alver
United States177 Posts
the problem with practising 10 hours a day in america is that its incredibly unlikely you can get 10 hrs of low latency games vs top10 grandmaster level people. idra was saying after coming back from from korea hes down to 3 hours/day of practise, to be honest thats probably how much TOP quality, low lag practise he can get per day. the rest is just playing for fun, which he can do or not do on each individual day as he sees fit. in a team house with atleast 2 of each race, ideally 3 there should be a solid 8 hours of good practise available to you per day. this sort of training could absolutely elevate mediocre na grandmasters to international pros in a way i dont see ANYTHING else making possible. also i thought the part about console taking over pc in pro gaming was pretty funny, games played with a controller cant be as skillful as mouse+keyboard. i cant imagine a world where esports was played entirely on controllers (fighting games seem like the only reasonable type to play on a console). | ||
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OnFire
324 Posts
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Xpace
United States2209 Posts
On June 08 2011 16:57 red4ce wrote: You must have missed this article (and the ensuing 'discussion' that followed) I actually remember reading that article, but I missed the 'discussion'. I totally agree with Hot_Bid's quote. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On June 08 2011 23:00 Alver wrote: also i thought the part about console taking over pc in pro gaming was pretty funny, games played with a controller cant be as skillful as mouse+keyboard. i cant imagine a world where esports was played entirely on controllers (fighting games seem like the only reasonable type to play on a console). ...and nobody plays a fighting game with a controller  I totally agree, having played Quake for years, I can't take a controller FPS seriously. Thank god Starcraft II has saved us! And a small comment to the OP: Naniwa and Thorzain are only "widely regarded" as the best foreigners because the community has the collective memory of a gold fish. Don't get me wrong, these two are amazing players, but nobody even knew who Thorzain was before TSL, and the guy has never shown anything of importance at a live event, expecting him to crush MLG at the drop of a hat is just silly. Otherwise, nice read, good job! | ||
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CheckSix Gaming
United States25 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
However please bear in mind that except for MC, these koreans are not exactly "the best". Koreans still have monsters like Nestea, MVP etc. | ||
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xsevR
United States324 Posts
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Fubi
2228 Posts
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
On June 08 2011 15:04 don_kyuhote wrote: Take team EG for example. Aren't they one of the first non-Korean team to set up a team house? And where are they now? I'm not saying they're bad or anything. I like iNcontroL, but whenever he says stuff like "we're gonna start taking this seriously now" or "we're never gonna let that happen again", I have my doubts, because quite frankly, he's been saying things of that nature for about a year, but results really haven't been backing him up. I mean right now, I'm getting this feeling that EG, or even Liquid, is not that strong of a team that I thought it was a year ago. What do you want him to say? "We're going to try keep up with the Koreans but we'll fall short and probably end up crashing and burning". No that's not like Incontrol he devotes himself 100% to his task and I'm sure he's spreading that mentality around the EG team. If you want to beat the Koreans you need to believe you have it in you to beat them you can't constantly doubt yourself or you get an Idra - MC / MMA situation. Bad decision making comes into play because you end up contradicting yourself. | ||
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Crais
Canada2136 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
For instance the TLO&friends house in sweden only has dreamhack events there, all other they will have to travel! USA & europe are simply to huge. The only thing comparable to the GSL is the EPS in germany, if all euro countrys had a ESL national championship with a valid prize pool it would in fact spawn training houses everywhere, But we don't have that, it's all online competitons or local events where you have to travel from far away countrys wich is always a big investment and time consuming. EPS gives away 3k to the winner every 1 or 2 months i believe. In GSL you lose and a few hours later you are back in the training house grinding some more games. In MLG you are out and you will get back home a few days later. But i hope the best players work a bit extra and together so that they improve overall. The thing is that all GSL players have all their games posted online and i still think people might not study them too much, people have to prepare more and train harder. A guy that practices 6h against worse oposition should not win against someone that plays more then 10h a day against better players. Not to mention they have coaches.. But i hope "we" can keep up or atleast keep on winning some. I think also people should try and pickup korean players, in war3 we could do it. Fnatic, MYM, SK, 4K etc.. had korean players and the western scene could benefit from that. I think it's beneficial to have some tournaments without koreans so that the western players win consistantly and get more motivation to improve and go professionaly! | ||
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don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
On June 09 2011 00:16 Denzil wrote: What do you want him to say? "We're going to try keep up with the Koreans but we'll fall short and probably end up crashing and burning". No that's not like Incontrol he devotes himself 100% to his task and I'm sure he's spreading that mentality around the EG team. If you want to beat the Koreans you need to believe you have it in you to beat them you can't constantly doubt yourself or you get an Idra - MC / MMA situation. Bad decision making comes into play because you end up contradicting yourself. Of course given his personality, iNcontroL will say whatever is in his mind, and thats perfectly fine. I'm just saying, if I were in that position, I would rather say nothing than saying something like that and not backing it up come MLG Anaheim. | ||
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Aldehyde
Sweden939 Posts
On June 08 2011 12:28 deadjawa wrote: The reason Koreans are better at Starcraft is because they have put the “pro” into programmer – practicing typically 10 hours a day. MMA said it best himself - Awesome article but it isn't "programmer" (that's something completely different ) but instead, it's progamer. | ||
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Shirolol
England504 Posts
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On June 08 2011 22:47 bittman wrote: Just wanted to say it was a great opening post. I've never cared for or watched any MLG competition before Colombus, and now I'm hyped for the next one. Regarding Koreans owning white dudes: you do realise they sent - 1 x 2-time GSL champion 1 x GSTL Ace Killer son of Boxer 1 x Code A champion son of Nestea 1 x SC:BW god of war 1 x IEM Runner Up / Warcraft 3 pro Sure, they didn't send the 4 GSL champions, but the Koreans gave an exceptionally strong showing. If NA had lost to TheBest + LegalMind + BitbyBit + Rain...well that wouldn't actually happen tbh. Anyway, point is that all 5 Korean players were scary strong, I do think foreigners have catching up to do, but I don't think it's a downer when you realise that it was really the best of the best Koreans they were up against. And now think who they could've sent as well? - mvp 2x gsl winner - nestea 2x gsl winner - bomber code a winner - nada SC:BW Genius Terran - mkp 3x runner up GSL And I'd say that lineup would have a similiar strength. But what backup do the foreigners have? WhiteRa & Sen are really the only ones I can think of. Maybe I'm missing someone? I dont say that players like Idra are not on equal footing with the top tier Koreans. But there are way more top tier Koreans then top tier foreigners. And people need to remember "<foreigner> took a game of MC!" - well so did multiple lower tier Koreans (Alicia, Polt, ...). Taking a game of a top tier Korean doesnt make anyone top tier as well. | ||
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Alver
United States177 Posts
On June 09 2011 00:38 shell wrote: the thing is every foreign house you make, in europe or USA it will always be away from all tourneys. You build a house in SK and they are some subway stations away from GSL stadiums.. it's not really the same. For instance the TLO&friends house in sweden only has dreamhack events there, all other they will have to travel! USA & europe are simply to huge. The only thing comparable to the GSL is the EPS in germany, if all euro countrys had a ESL national championship with a valid prize pool it would in fact spawn training houses everywhere, But we don't have that, it's all online competitons or local events where you have to travel from far away countrys wich is always a big investment and time consuming. EPS gives away 3k to the winner every 1 or 2 months i believe. In GSL you lose and a few hours later you are back in the training house grinding some more games. In MLG you are out and you will get back home a few days later. But i hope the best players work a bit extra and together so that they improve overall. The thing is that all GSL players have all their games posted online and i still think people might not study them too much, people have to prepare more and train harder. A guy that practices 6h against worse oposition should not win against someone that plays more then 10h a day against better players. Not to mention they have coaches.. But i hope "we" can keep up or atleast keep on winning some. I think also people should try and pickup korean players, in war3 we could do it. Fnatic, MYM, SK, 4K etc.. had korean players and the western scene could benefit from that. I think it's beneficial to have some tournaments without koreans so that the western players win consistantly and get more motivation to improve and go professionaly! it really doesnt matter where the team houses are as long as you get all your players to fill it, sponsors are allready paying alot for travel and i highly doubt travel costs are half as much of a concern is making sure their players can actually win tournaments. if anything right now id say travel costs are only prohibitive when it involves korea. | ||
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Tarot
Canada440 Posts
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ilmman
364 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On June 09 2011 01:35 Alver wrote: it really doesnt matter where the team houses are as long as you get all your players to fill it, sponsors are allready paying alot for travel and i highly doubt travel costs are half as much of a concern is making sure their players can actually win tournaments. if anything right now id say travel costs are only prohibitive when it involves korea. Traveling to collumbus from europe will cost you the same then to travel to SK and i bet the living costs in the USA are much higher then in SK and it's almost the same amount of hours, so jetlag will also happen! My point is teamhouses will never be so productive in europe/states then in SK because they have a concentration of everything starcraft related in a city and in europe we have 40 countrys and in USA 50 states.. not the same and it will never be! But team houses are clearly the way to go and improve by a ton, but 5/6 SC2 buddys living together is no the same has 12 progamers with a coach, manager, rules, maid etc.. They have strick shedules and training plans and we have friends living together! Even if it's not the same kind of practice it's still much better then practice alone in your house and it's a step in the right direction | ||
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