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On June 08 2011 01:17 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:04 SilverJohnny wrote:
As expected, the stats show what every sane person knows, that the game is getting pretty damn close to being fully balanced. thanks for putting so much effort into making these stats, its very interesting to see how the metagame shifts with every patch/new strategy!
for example, WTF happened in january for TvZ lol. Jan is the time every GSL terran was making 8-12 marines when sending them with 20 SCV in front of them to kill zerg It still works actually, I don't know why more terran are not doing it. The only reason it stopped working 6 months ago is because every zerg was so afraid of it that they would instantly build a blind spine crawler when their natural finished or a blind fast baneling nest.
So you say that building defense instead of workers stopped all-in aggression? What a strange concept! But why do you call it blind? Don't you think that it might have something to do with Zergs sending out a worker just like the other 2 races in order to scout their opponents opening BO?
On topic:
I still wonder why those graphs differ so much from the NASL stats. Is it because of the round robin or because of the sample size?
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On June 08 2011 01:01 valaki wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:00 smacky wrote:
im color blind and cannot tell the difference between red and green...
possible to get an edit with colorblind This. I'm the same unfortunately.
The bottom line is Protoss, the top is Terran
In Z v P Zerg is on top
In T v Z Terran is on top
In P v T Terran is on top
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TvZ feels really hard for T, but that could be me ofcourse. Especially infestor + ling into infestor + hive (broodlord / ultra) is just crazy to hold, and I dear to say that zerg can fight terran on even bases with infestors.
The funny thing is that most zergs don't know this! Look at losira, julyzerg and idra: they still go muta baneling ling. This composition is really 2 times easier to beat then infestor compositions.
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On June 08 2011 01:30 Thrombozyt wrote:
So you say that building defense instead of workers stopped all-in aggression? What a strange concept! But why do you call it blind? Don't you think that it might have something to do with Zergs sending out a worker just like the other 2 races in order to scout their opponents opening BO?
It doesn't work that way dude. There are situations in which, the chances to get any intel inside of a terran's base are entirely based on the skill level of the terran.
Playing a blind guessing game will not make your game play skill based and there will be many,many, many situations vs macro terrans in which you'll be like "Why did i loose ? I did everything right". And the answer is "Because you lost the macro game, while trying to win the guessing one".
I personally as a Master league zerg in EU server HIGHLY disagree win Day[9] and his "assumptions" but thats just me.
As i said, in that ZvT graphics, the blue and red lines will never cross paths, untill the guessing game is over and the result of the match up, actually becomes skill based.
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On June 08 2011 01:23 Ctuchik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:08 smacky wrote:[ + Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On June 08 2011 01:01 valaki wrote:On June 08 2011 01:00 smacky wrote:
im color blind and cannot tell the difference between red and green...
possible to get an edit with colorblind This. I'm the same unfortunately. alas we shall never be fighter pilots.... Color blind edition! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Rxlaz.png)
Should make all three lines black, and the key completely black to make the graph more balanced between color blind and non- color blind players :D
But basically, the races are relatively balanced, although Zerg may be starting to win convincingly against Protoss at the moment.
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i want to see those kind of statistics applied to early, mid and late game :< the w/l can be near 50% for all races but it doesnt matter if a race only wins before 10min and the other after 10min. good job anyway
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On June 08 2011 01:23 Ctuchik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:08 smacky wrote:[ + Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On June 08 2011 01:01 valaki wrote:On June 08 2011 01:00 smacky wrote:
im color blind and cannot tell the difference between red and green...
possible to get an edit with colorblind This. I'm the same unfortunately. alas we shall never be fighter pilots....
Color blind edition!
[/QUOTE]
honestly, thank you
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I like how everything is rather close or drastically swapping around. Shows really good balance in the game. Solid data!
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Anyone else actually excited about these statistics?
These statistics show that the game is getting closer and closer to equilibrium between all races, sure it LOOKS like there is imbalance by just purely looking at the graphs in a half-assed manner, but look at the difference, the win-rate % is 52-48%, that's not a lot, and is exceptional due to the amount of variables that can affect the game.
I'm actually glad these stats are coming the way they are, it just proves that there is becoming much more equilibrium between the races, or at least the win-rate between the races is becoming more and more balanced.
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On June 08 2011 01:33 Dente wrote:
TvZ feels really hard for T, but that could be me ofcourse. Especially infestor + ling into infestor + hive (broodlord / ultra) is just crazy to hold, and I dear to say that zerg can fight terran on even bases with infestors.
The funny thing is that most zergs don't know this! Look at losira, julyzerg and idra: they still go muta baneling ling. This composition is really 2 times easier to beat then infestor compositions.
Yeah, go teach losira and idra how to play, they sure need it.
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the trend is that Z is the best race
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I find the ZvP tab funny, cuz I cant win a single one. Especially when the only map I get is taldarim. D:
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On June 08 2011 01:55 Kira__ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:33 Dente wrote:
TvZ feels really hard for T, but that could be me ofcourse. Especially infestor + ling into infestor + hive (broodlord / ultra) is just crazy to hold, and I dear to say that zerg can fight terran on even bases with infestors.
The funny thing is that most zergs don't know this! Look at losira, julyzerg and idra: they still go muta baneling ling. This composition is really 2 times easier to beat then infestor compositions. Yeah, go teach losira and idra how to play, they sure need it.
I don't say that muta ling bling is bad... I said that infestor + X into hive is MUCH more difficult to play against. I also said that zergs don't know how powerful infestors are. Muta ling baneling is solid and good, infestor + ling into hive is awesome.
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many pro-protosses got by on 4 gates and variations of it, now its nerfed they're struggling
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On June 08 2011 01:37 Hristiyan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:30 Thrombozyt wrote:
So you say that building defense instead of workers stopped all-in aggression? What a strange concept! But why do you call it blind? Don't you think that it might have something to do with Zergs sending out a worker just like the other 2 races in order to scout their opponents opening BO?
It doesn't work that way dude. There are situations in which, the chances to get any intel inside of a terran's base are entirely based on the skill level of the terran. Playing a blind guessing game will not make your game play skill based and there will be many,many, many situations vs macro terrans in which you'll be like "Why did i loose ? I did everything right". And the answer is "Because you lost the macro game, while trying to win the guessing one". I personally as a Master league zerg in EU server HIGHLY disagree win Day[9] and his "assumptions" but thats just me. As i said, in that ZvT graphics, the blue and red lines will never cross paths, untill the guessing game is over and the result of the match up, actually becomes skill based.
Dude, there are situations where the chances to get any intel inside of a zerg base are entirely based on the skill level of the Zerg. Namely all situations after lings are out and where you cannot expend 3+ scans to check the Zerg tech.
I dare to say, that Zerg can gather more intel more cost efficiently than terran can and there are many many situations where a macro terran is caught with his pants down, because suddenly the zerg composition changes drastically.
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the change to bigger maps also helped against the scv all ins.
and even now in smaller maps like metal you can see that zergs learned to deal with early agrassion like 2 rax easily.
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can we get such statistics with maps? especially with maps, that were there from the beginning, like Xel'Naga Caverns!?
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stats look so peculiar 
So Protoss OP isnt true at all
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On June 08 2011 02:11 minhchi1211 wrote:stats look so peculiar So Protoss OP isnt true at all
Dont judge anything from stats like this. First of all the graphs LOOK a lot more extreme than they are since none of them start at 0% and goes up to 100%. Also, you can NEVER judge a games balance from gamestatistics, you have to look at the games themself, otherwise you have to deny things like Metagame advantages (Zerg has a strat right now that protosses have trouble with, doesnt mean it´s imba) and also Skill differences.
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the graph actually shows that terran are going down and protoss and zerg are going up :p
On June 08 2011 01:55 Kira__ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:33 Dente wrote:
TvZ feels really hard for T, but that could be me ofcourse. Especially infestor + ling into infestor + hive (broodlord / ultra) is just crazy to hold, and I dear to say that zerg can fight terran on even bases with infestors.
The funny thing is that most zergs don't know this! Look at losira, julyzerg and idra: they still go muta baneling ling. This composition is really 2 times easier to beat then infestor compositions. Yeah, go teach losira and idra how to play, they sure need it.
MMA just totally outplayed them.
outplaying someone has a much larger effect than the balance. balance only effects the game if you play a certain way, and in the case of terran it's more due to the map design. immobility suuuuucks.
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EPT
