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This list is probably not entirely accurate, but I'd imagine isn't TOO far off. I'm waiting for GSL to start and was bored, figured out people's MLG points, this will give us a pretty fair idea of who to look out for in pool play at MLG Anaheim, etc.
*NOTE: final standings haven't been officially released, I'm basing info off what I know of how consolation matches played out so there may be errors.
MLG Points
1. Naniwa 1850
2. Idra 1400
3. MMA 1200
4. Slush 1190
5. Kiwikaki 1140
6. Select 1090
7. Losira 1000
8. Ret 940
9. iNcontroL 920
10. MC 900
11. Haypro 800
12. TLO 770
13. Sjow 740
14. Moonan 630
15. Moon 550
16. Drewbie 540
17. Machine 530
18. Sheth 520
19. Fenix 460
20. Tyler 430
21. Thorzain 430
22. July 400
23. Vibe 310
24. Major 280
25. Gretorp 260
26. KawaiiRice 230
27. qxc 230
28. Cruncher 200
29. Mihai 190
30. Agh 150
31. Optikzero 136
32. Morrow 60
33. Axslav 30
34. Namchir 10
----
NOTE: July likely won't attend the next MLG if he has to play from the Open Bracket.
----
Who's Out
- Machine, Gretorp, Sheth, and Tyler have lost their Top 16 seeding.
Who's Gaining
- ViBe, Fenix, Thorzain are threatening to move into the Top 16 with strong runs at MLG Anaheim
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^^ thats understandable. Playing noobs(comparatively) for two days, plus travel time and then getting a shot at the real tournament is kinda like a waste of time for july.
so the top 16 players are seeded into pool play?
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I wonder if the Koreans consistently place well enough to qualify for pool play, will they keep bringing more over, because if all of them do well at Anaheim, that could be 12 Koreans in pool play at the MLG after that.
Of course, this is assuming that the Koreans in the pools come back. If they don't, would they be replaced with the new set of Koreans?
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Wheres Huk?? He is going to anaheim iirc
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From what I understand, 4 new Koreans will be invited each time. The previous Koreans (I.E. MC, MMA, Losira, Moon, July) won't have paid trips, which means if they want to compete again they will need to pay their own way. A Korean outside the Top 16 has little/no incentive to do this (July).
Unknown whether other Koreans will deem it worthwhile to send their players to compete for $14,000. I'd imagine MC and MMA would return (random guess).
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On June 07 2011 18:00 Aurdon wrote:It looks pretty similar to what the Liquidpedia has, but it's not quite same.(IE #34 definitely different) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/RankingsPlus these rankings don't take into account the points from 2010 which I'm pretty sure gets used somehow because of people who have gotten into pool play.
2010 points don't carry over.
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On June 07 2011 18:01 MrMotionPicture wrote:
You said Drewbie lost Top 16.
But you have him at #16?
woops ur right
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Germany442 Posts
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I was under the impression that they had to qualify to make to get the free pass to the next MLG regardless of there performance at the last one. It is then up-to the teams if the players who did well will pay out for the travel.
I may be wrong on that though
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i didnt expect people to be moving up and down so quickly, very interesting.
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How many people are seeded into the player pool? I thought 20, and not 16?
(total of 24 players in the pool, minus 4 invites from Korea)
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On June 07 2011 18:03 Chylouk wrote:
I was under the impression that they had to qualify to make to get the free pass to the next MLG regardless of there performance at the last one. It is then up-to the teams if the players who did well will pay out for the travel.
I may be wrong on that though
I'd bet anything that teams would find some sponsor money to get any Korean who qualified for pool play over to any MLG event. All they have to do is go to the sponsors and show the MLG broadcast numbers and the sponsors would love that kind of exposure.
Plus MLG and GSL have agreement not to overlap broadcasts so their schedules should be free.
MMA, MC, Losira will be there again. Just watch.
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You missed Socke 650 and Huk 460 like others noted before me.
Does anyone know how they handle tiebreakers? Like Tyler and Thorzain?
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On June 07 2011 18:06 JustPassingBy wrote:
How many people are seeded into the player pool? I thought 20, and not 16?
(total of 24 players in the pool, minus 4 invites from Korea)
16 people are seeded.
4 koreans are invited.
4 people from the open bracket.
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Not having july show up to the next MLG is =(
I might be a tad worried that if the 4 koreans (moon, mc, mma, losira) show up to the next MLG along with 4 other korean players, MLG would slowly turn into a "mostly korean" tournament.
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I have been looking at the MLG format until my head hurt and still can't figure out at what point are players guaranteed a spot in the Providence group stage. Maybe someone smarter than yours truly can it figure out.
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only if july has defeated moon... sigh
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Understandable that tyler is out of the top 16. His showing unfortunately wasn't as great as I remember him =/
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Why wouldn't July come back? Did he said that? Because rolling through some guys in the open Bracket seems like "fun" for somebody like July. However, traveling costs are the biggest problem for him (and other non invited Koreans) I think. MMA, Losira and MC will have to pay for their flight.
EDIT: Also, July wasnt invited yet by MLG. So it is possible that he will get a free invite once more.
EDIT2: You are missing HuK in your list. Socke as well.
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July wasn't invited by MLG, he qualifed to be sent by CSN.
Also i can see him not wanting to go through the open bracket. His play was visibly different at the ends of day 2. he must've been very tired
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Maybe they'll use the invite to get July to comeback since they haven't invited him yet.
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would be a shame if at least the defending champion didn't return
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I don't know how it works, but it seems ridiculous that Gretorp is still higher than the likes of KawaiiRice (who made it to the championship bracket) when he hasn't won a match in the last 2 MLGs.
Sad news that Machine and Sheth aren't in the top 16, hopefully some of the Koreans won't come back or something.
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Fuck yea Slush. You'll get your win next time man :D
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So those players not in the top 16 have to go through the open bracket? Damn, those brackets are going to be quite brutal if that's the case 
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Wait so like MMA, Moon, Losira, and MC were the 4 MLG invites. I honestly don't see a korean invite not making the top 16, so essentially, everytime we invite a Korean player, you're replacing a foreign player in the pool with a Korean player.
It's way easier for them to get MLG seeding than others. Take July for example who had to go through the open bracket. He is an extremely strong player, on the level of the other 4 Koreans but because he had to go through the open bracket he wont get MLG seeding because it was harder. That was just July, think of the other players having to go through the Open players, all the foreigners.
If MLG is going to continue to add Koreans into the Championship Pool, they need to add more than 4 pools. They should possibly make it 8 pools or we're going to have Korean players have a huge advantage in taking MLG seeding. They are already skilled enough to do it legitimately through the open bracket, now we're making it extremely easy.
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On June 07 2011 18:08 Baituri wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 18:06 JustPassingBy wrote:
How many people are seeded into the player pool? I thought 20, and not 16?
(total of 24 players in the pool, minus 4 invites from Korea) 16 people are seeded. 4 koreans are invited. 4 people from the open bracket.
Ah, okay. Thanks. So we have a decent chance of seeing the MMA; Losira, MC and Moon back in action in the next MLG (even with Socke added to the list, Moon should still be top 16, right)? I'll be looking forward to that!
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It's almost impossible that we'd see more then 8 Korean's in the top 16 after another 2 MLG's. After every MLG the amount of points needed to break into the top 16 increases. After the next one, it's likely that someone attending MLG for the first time would need to get at least third to get into the top 16 and if any Koreans which were previously invited decide to return to claim their seeds then getting top 3 will be much much tougher.
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Gretorp ahead of Kawaii? No offense to Gretorp, especially with him focusing on NASL and such (much <3's), but you know the system has a flaw when you're reading, and read Gretorp directly followed by KawaiiRice.
That open bracket is so brutal, but I guess every time, it makes you stronger! Thanks for the (unofficial) list Xeris!
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if the Top 16 attend Anaheim
A
1. Naniwa
8. Ret
9. iNcontroL
16. Moon
B
2. Idra
7. Losira
10. MC
15. Moonan
C
3. MMA
6. SeleCT
11. Haypro
14. Socke
D
4. Slush
5. Kiwikaki
12. TLO
13. Sjow
GSL July Finals is on the same weekend as MLG Anaheim, so depends if any of the Koreans make it to the Finals
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OK, so assuming everyone turned up, here would be the groups for anahiem:
A:
1. Naniwa 1850
8. Ret 940
9. iNcontroL 920
16. Moon 550
Korea 1
B:
2. Idra 1400
7. Losira 1000
10. MC 900
15. Moonan 630
Korea 2
C:
3. MMA 1200
6. Select 1090
11. Haypro 800
14. Socke 650
Korea 3
D:
4. Slush 1190
5. Kiwikaki 1140
12. TLO 770
13. Sjow 740
Korea 4
Wow, group B 
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Here's another way to look at these data. 20 of the top 24 in Columbus and 19 of the top-24 by MLG rank points are players in NASL.
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From what I heard of people who spoke to July at the event, the dude loves starcraft 2 way more than competing. I think July is seriously chill about the whole thing, and apparently he said he wants to come back to MLG and play in the open bracket again to meet "the real fans of sc2"
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On June 07 2011 18:27 odder wrote:
if the Top 16 attend Anaheim
A
1. Naniwa
8. Ret
9. iNcontroL
16. Moon
B
2. Idra
7. Losira
10. MC
15. Moonan
C
3. MMA
6. SeleCT
11. Haypro
14. Socke
D
4. Slush
5. Kiwikaki
12. TLO
13. Sjow
lol @ idra being in two consecutive groups of death ... conspiracy perhaps?
+ Show Spoiler +j/k just in case someone decided to take things way to seriously
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maybe july will get seeded in though, now hes shown the desire to come to mlg and he obviously has the skill to contend he will be able to come seeded next time.
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On June 07 2011 18:41 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 18:27 odder wrote:
if the Top 16 attend Anaheim
A
1. Naniwa
8. Ret
9. iNcontroL
16. Moon
B
2. Idra
7. Losira
10. MC
15. Moonan
C
3. MMA
6. SeleCT
11. Haypro
14. Socke
D
4. Slush
5. Kiwikaki
12. TLO
13. Sjow lol @ idra being in two consecutive groups of death ... conspiracy perhaps? + Show Spoiler +j/k just in case someone decided to take things way to seriously
I love how idra manages to earn the perfect amount of points to be placed into the groups of death,
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Not really impressed with this system, far too forgiving on people who get seeded and fail to perform well in the previous tournament compared to people who come through the open brackets playing and winning many more games.
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Wont the MLG pay for Losira, MMA, and MC to fly over? i thought mlg was going to cover all the costs of the koreans...they really should so more can come
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United States7754 Posts
Dammit, Thorzain not quite making it =(
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nnooooooooooooez..............
tyler and sheth out?-.--ffs
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huk has 460 points, so he wouldn't make it into the top 16. maybe he'll get invited :D
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On June 07 2011 19:01 Golgotha wrote:
Wont the MLG pay for Losira, MMA, and MC to fly over? i thought mlg was going to cover all the costs of the koreans...they really should so more can come
They will only pay once. Next time they will pay the cost of 4 new Koreans. The previous (MMA, Losira, MC, Moon) will have to pay for the travel cost themselves.
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So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament.
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July not in the top 16?! so he will not be seeded into the pools ?
Edit: what about socke btw? didnt he made top 6 last time
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On June 07 2011 18:18 GhostFall wrote:
Wait so like MMA, Moon, Losira, and MC were the 4 MLG invites. I honestly don't see a korean invite not making the top 16, so essentially, everytime we invite a Korean player, you're replacing a foreign player in the pool with a Korean player.
It's way easier for them to get MLG seeding than others. Take July for example who had to go through the open bracket. He is an extremely strong player, on the level of the other 4 Koreans but because he had to go through the open bracket he wont get MLG seeding because it was harder. That was just July, think of the other players having to go through the Open players, all the foreigners.
If MLG is going to continue to add Koreans into the Championship Pool, they need to add more than 4 pools. They should possibly make it 8 pools or we're going to have Korean players have a huge advantage in taking MLG seeding. They are already skilled enough to do it legitimately through the open bracket, now we're making it extremely easy.
You're assuming Koreans will always come back, the assumption from MLG (who have far more info than you) is that they won't.
Given how easilly all the Koreans stomped the championship bracket they'd have no trouble in the open bracket at all and would essentially ruin the open bracket system should they be placed there.
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On June 07 2011 19:12 tooPrime wrote:
So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament.
Maybe when top 16 is Koreans only people will realize how shitty it is...
... or maybe not -_-
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It's going to be crazy if MLG keeps inviting 4 new Koreans for each event and the previous ones that qualified for pool play return. Not sure what I think about that. I think maybe they should make it 4 Korean pool players total. So if 2 decide to return, then limit the invites to only 2 instead of 4.
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The only korean I ever see coming again would me MC as he has the money to pay for himself to come again. But that would still mean no top 16 for Tyler...
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Socke still in Top 16, we might see him again then :D
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On June 07 2011 19:13 Ragoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:12 tooPrime wrote:
So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament. Maybe when top 16 is Koreans only people will realize how shitty it is... ... or maybe not -_-
Yes, when the top 16 is filled with consistent/good players ppl will realize how shitty it is.
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so if the 4 koreans
dont come next MLG
Tyler/THorzain will be tied for 16th seed. how would they work that out
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On June 07 2011 19:13 Ragoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:12 tooPrime wrote:
So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament. Maybe when top 16 is Koreans only people will realize how shitty it is... ... or maybe not -_-
what? why would people not like it because the players are korean?
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On June 07 2011 19:15 Benjef wrote:The only korean I ever see coming again would me MC as he has the money to pay for himself to come again. But that would still mean no top 16 for Tyler...
I'd imagine their teams/sponsors would pay for their trip. If not, yeah, definitely not worth it except for the championship tourney. A lot of Korean teams are getting international sponsors so it would stand to reason they would want as much international exposure as possible and pay for the trip. Sending a player on a weekend plane trip is a lot cheaper than a lot of other forms of advertising.
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On June 07 2011 19:15 Benjef wrote:The only korean I ever see coming again would me MC as he has the money to pay for himself to come again. But that would still mean no top 16 for Tyler...
Don't forget Moon at #15, he's made way more money than MC has from WC3. Also traveled tons more, I'd actually be surprised if he doesn't show up.
I can understand the worry of Koreans just dominating the tournament if they keep reserving 4/20 slots in the pools for them... I wouldn't mind if they just sent them to play in the Open Bracket, since they'll almost definitely plow through the ranks.
Then again, that'd give the pool players even more of an advantage, given a free pass to avoid the sharks down below, lol. Like someone earlier said, they'd ruin the system for the Open Bracket players. I dunno...
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So I guess people are not looking forward to the eventual top 16 of MLG, which will be something like the following.
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
Probably need to invite 4 non-Koreans like Idra, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain.
So is this the worst case scenario for MLG?
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I think July should get the sponsored Korean spot in the next MLG. Keep in mind that Anaheim is closer to Korea by a couple hours. Its also a much more desirable destination then other venues. I'm expecting to see quite a few more Koreans there.
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On June 07 2011 19:20 lim1017 wrote:
so if the 4 koreans
dont come next MLG
Tyler/THorzain will be tied for 16th seed. how would they work that out
i'm guessing tyler cause he was there "first", but i dont know
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On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
can't tell if serious :/
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On June 07 2011 19:22 rycho wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:13 Ragoo wrote:On June 07 2011 19:12 tooPrime wrote:
So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament. Maybe when top 16 is Koreans only people will realize how shitty it is... ... or maybe not -_- what? why would people not like it because the players are korean?
In the end, it's not exactly fair to the other players who have earned their spot in pool play. People are already getting knocked out of pool play by the Koreans who were invited and who didn't earn their spot in the first place. If they decide to return along with new invites, more and more people who have actually worked hard to earn their spot could be knocked down to the open bracket whereas if the invites didn't exist they would still have their spot.
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In my opinion they should weight the most recent mlgs higher than the past ones. Otherwise it is going to be hard to give space to the growing competition in view of the increase of mlg skill pool. Seriously thorzain should be at least top 16, he is so epic! The games against MC on the losers bracket were really close not mentioning that if it wasnt an extended pool he would 2-1 him.
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On June 07 2011 19:28 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
can't tell if serious :/
Apparently some people are.
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Koreans invite are nice, but honestly 4 more koreans would make this so hard for foreigners. :/
I hope July can come back tho. It's far more exiting to see koreans fight for it. Collombus feel too easy for seeded koreans imo..
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Crossing my fingers for Anaheim having the 4 Koreans who qualified into pool play coming back and these being the invitees:
July, FoxeR, Nestea, BoxeR
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On June 07 2011 19:22 rycho wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:13 Ragoo wrote:On June 07 2011 19:12 tooPrime wrote:
So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament. Maybe when top 16 is Koreans only people will realize how shitty it is... ... or maybe not -_- what? why would people not like it because the players are korean?
Basically. If I would want to watch Koreans I can always watch GSL. No need for GSL in USA, too. My interest in MLG will be very low if there are only or mostly Koreans.
Plus that would hurt the foreign scene a lot.
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On June 07 2011 19:34 Ragoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:22 rycho wrote:On June 07 2011 19:13 Ragoo wrote:On June 07 2011 19:12 tooPrime wrote:
So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament. Maybe when top 16 is Koreans only people will realize how shitty it is... ... or maybe not -_- what? why would people not like it because the players are korean? Basically. If I would want to watch Koreans I can always watch GSL. No need for GSL in USA, too. My interest in MLG will be very low if there are only or mostly Koreans. Plus that would hurt the foreign scene a lot.
Yes, god forbid if the foreign scene's hosted skill based competitions had some of the best players at said competition.
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On June 07 2011 18:08 Baituri wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 18:06 JustPassingBy wrote:
How many people are seeded into the player pool? I thought 20, and not 16?
(total of 24 players in the pool, minus 4 invites from Korea) 16 people are seeded. 4 koreans are invited. 4 people from the open bracket.
Sounds kinda wrong if there are ALWAYS 4 (different) Koreans invited AND they get MLG points to be seeded.
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On June 07 2011 19:32 Noocta wrote:
Koreans invite are nice, but honestly 4 more koreans would make this so hard for foreigners. :/
I hope July can come back tho. It's far more exiting to see koreans fight for it. Collombus feel too easy for seeded koreans imo..
this attitude of not inviting koreans to tourneys is why americans (and some europeans) just dont get it that they suck. if you only have to play bad people how can you ever hope to improve? if sc2 continues to get bigger and bigger and runs for 10 more years like broodwar, its gonna be alot more important to be a good player than taking a few 'cheesy' wins by not inviting people you are scared of.
id love to see slayers fly mma out for more mlgs since hes straight into pools now
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I think you guys are reading the MLG exchange program wrong. At least from the Korean point of view. Think about. For Koreans the biggest reward from next MLG will be a free code S spot. So Korean teams will send their Code A players (who didnt make it into up down) or ex Code S players who failed that season or even more their code B players (to get them into GSL the easy way). Teams arent interested in sending MVP, Nestea, MC for next MLG as part of exchange program.
Lets say that IM has a one slot in exchange program for next MLG. They send Nestea and he wins. He is already code S so the code S spot goes to 2nd player that might be from other korean clan. So in the best team intrest from next MLG on the invites would be mostly code A people or other good players that failed to get into code A/S (still possibly better than most of NA/EU players).
Oh and about group B.
If IM and oGs decide to fork the money to send Losira na MC again i would say that Idra is out of top 16 of MLG ^^
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We'll see what happens, but if MMA, Losira, Moon, and MC all find the money/sponsors to come back and then the next four Korean invites also make it into pool play from Anaheim. You could 12 Koreans and 12 foreigners in Raleigh group play.
I for one think that the players are going to find the money from their teams to make it back. Do you really see it so hard to get a few sponsors together to pay for these trips for Koreans when you are basically guaranteed three days worth of eyeballs from tens of thousands of nerds.
I know Korean plane tickets are expensive, but it is worth it for players of this skill level.
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On June 07 2011 19:43 Frankon wrote:
I think you guys are reading the MLG exchange program wrong. At least from the Korean point of view. Think about. For Koreans the biggest reward from next MLG will be a free code S spot. So Korean teams will send their Code A players (who didnt make it into up down) or ex Code S players who failed that season or even more their code B players (to get them into GSL the easy way). Teams arent interested in sending MVP, Nestea, MC for next MLG as part of exchange program.
Lets say that IM has a one slot in exchange program for next MLG. They send Nestea and he wins. He is already code S so the code S spot goes to 2nd player that might be from other korean clan. So in the best team intrest from next MLG on the invites would be mostly code A people or other good players that failed to get into code A/S (still possibly better than most of NA/EU players).
Oh and about group B.
If IM and oGs decide to fork the money to send Losira na MC again i would say that Idra is out of top 16 of MLG ^^
I think you're underestimating the value of getting international exposure, marketing, and fanbase for their players.
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On June 07 2011 18:54 Full.tilt wrote:
Not really impressed with this system, far too forgiving on people who get seeded and fail to perform well in the previous tournament compared to people who come through the open brackets playing and winning many more games.
They set this system up back in like 08 or 09 for halo 3, to try and keep halo 2 pros, pros in halo 3 so they could market them better and get better sponsors like hot pockets stride Dr Pepper etc.
For halo it basically became impossible to get pro unless you and your team went to every event(which is very expensive to get 4 people to a event with limited/no sponsors) in the season and got top 8 every event which is almost impossible.
Before if you were a top 16 seed, you were Guaranteed Top 32, Now you are Guaranteed top 24, and have points roll over from last season.
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If Tyler goes through the Open bracket.... he won't make it out.
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On June 07 2011 19:48 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:43 Frankon wrote:
I think you guys are reading the MLG exchange program wrong. At least from the Korean point of view. Think about. For Koreans the biggest reward from next MLG will be a free code S spot. So Korean teams will send their Code A players (who didnt make it into up down) or ex Code S players who failed that season or even more their code B players (to get them into GSL the easy way). Teams arent interested in sending MVP, Nestea, MC for next MLG as part of exchange program.
Lets say that IM has a one slot in exchange program for next MLG. They send Nestea and he wins. He is already code S so the code S spot goes to 2nd player that might be from other korean clan. So in the best team intrest from next MLG on the invites would be mostly code A people or other good players that failed to get into code A/S (still possibly better than most of NA/EU players).
Oh and about group B.
If IM and oGs decide to fork the money to send Losira na MC again i would say that Idra is out of top 16 of MLG ^^ I think you're underestimating the value of getting international exposure, marketing, and fanbase for their players.
Of course most of Korean's team sponsors are international companies?
Most of sponors are either koreans or interested in getting more exposure in that part of the world. This is also why for the teams it would be more beneficial to get new players into GSL by going through the easy MLG route.
PS. Look how many koreans teams applied for western events. oGs, ST, Slayers and IM only.
Now it changes a bit. But still Korea is the no1 market for those team and their sponsors.
PS. I actually work for a small sport team (Rugby team to be exact) so i know a bit how important are the sponsors and what they want...
Edit.
PS2.
Socke.... His sponsors told him he has to play in the EPS leugue finals and couldnt go for MLG.
Another proof that sponsors are more interested in their targeted area (in this case Germany)
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On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
I love to see every player on that list, however not at the same time in MLG. I already subscribe to GSL and get to watch them there.
MLG had a really nice mix of players from different countries and I hope that MLG always will have the healthy mix. It is actually the only "global" lan tournament where we can all see NA/EU/SEA/Korea duke it out which is awesome.
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MLG said that 4 Koreans get invites which means everything is paid for this 4 players. If all the other Koreans (so in this current case MMA, Losira, MC and Moon) want to participate in the next MLG their team will have to pay for all their costs. And I don't know if any of this 4 will go under this circumstances (2 flights, hotel, food for the days isnt that cheap). So I don't know where all this panic comes about only Koreans in the top 16..
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On June 07 2011 19:29 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:22 rycho wrote:On June 07 2011 19:13 Ragoo wrote:On June 07 2011 19:12 tooPrime wrote:
So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament. Maybe when top 16 is Koreans only people will realize how shitty it is... ... or maybe not -_- what? why would people not like it because the players are korean? In the end, it's not exactly fair to the other players who have earned their spot in pool play. People are already getting knocked out of pool play by the Koreans who were invited and who didn't earn their spot in the first place. If they decide to return along with new invites, more and more people who have actually worked hard to earn their spot could be knocked down to the open bracket whereas if the invites didn't exist they would still have their spot.
Would you rather have Korean players going to MLG and just slaughtering their way through the open brackets virtually crushing every western player there never ever giving anyone a shot on the big tournament?
Julys 4 games were about 25 minutes. Was that fun for his opponents? Getting absolutely slaughtered.
I hope MLG can grow in size, have more groups/bigger groups, maybe extend the tournament to more days i dont know. But the open brackets shouldn't have top Korean players. That's not fun for amateur gamers at home going "maybe I can practice much and have a shot at the main tournament. Oh wait, I'm scheduled to play Bomber in first round...gg"
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
On June 07 2011 19:20 lim1017 wrote:
so if the 4 koreans
dont come next MLG
Tyler/THorzain will be tied for 16th seed. how would they work that out
probably thorzain since he is the better player
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Hard to see Tyler motivated now that he isn't even top 16 MLG.
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On June 07 2011 19:01 Golgotha wrote:
Wont the MLG pay for Losira, MMA, and MC to fly over? i thought mlg was going to cover all the costs of the koreans...they really should so more can come
Only the four invites gets everything payed. These four aren't the next four invites probably.
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On June 07 2011 18:54 Full.tilt wrote:
Not really impressed with this system, far too forgiving on people who get seeded and fail to perform well in the previous tournament compared to people who come through the open brackets playing and winning many more games.
I don't know, seems to be doing fine to me. I mean those people fighting through the open bracket, sure they do well, but the players seeded are playing like 10 times harder opponents, so them "failing to perform" can just be a question of "I'm playing slightly to hard players".
Sure they still get some points for it, but in general you can see the people that failed to perform drop out of seeded. Moreso, the people that did perform all got above or very close to the people that failed this MLG.
Am I correct in that the seeds reset again in end of 2011? 2012 etc?
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On June 07 2011 20:10 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:01 Golgotha wrote:
Wont the MLG pay for Losira, MMA, and MC to fly over? i thought mlg was going to cover all the costs of the koreans...they really should so more can come Only the four invites gets everything payed. These four aren't the next four invites probably.
Yup you can get invited only once. It was already stated in the thread about the exchange.
Also i wonder what will happen to Tyler gum contract if he under-performs next MLG also...
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Why weren`t White-Ra and Kas in this tournament?:>
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On June 07 2011 19:59 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
I love to see every player on that list, however not at the same time in MLG. I already subscribe to GSL and get to watch them there. MLG had a really nice mix of players from different countries and I hope that MLG always will have the healthy mix. It is actually the only "global" lan tournament where we can all see NA/EU/SEA/Korea duke it out which is awesome.
Dreamhack has that mix as well, and I dare say that Dreamhack summer will be alot better than MLG Colombus.
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On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
So I guess people are not looking forward to the eventual top 16 of MLG, which will be something like the following.
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
Probably need to invite 4 non-Koreans like Idra, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain.
So is this the worst case scenario for MLG?
this might be a troll, i can't really tell. i don't think seeing a live event with what could be the best 16 players in the world would "suck" at all, in fact i think it would be the best event possible. do you people really hate koreans this much?
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If that's the worst case scenario, MLG are in for great things. I'd pay to watch that!
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I got a question, in next MLG how many people will be seeded into groups ?
16 like in Dallas or 20 like in Columbus ?
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16, and 4 new Korean invites.
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On June 07 2011 20:17 radu_c wrote:
Why weren`t White-Ra and Kas in this tournament?:>
this has already been discussed. The problem is that it's very expensive for Europeans to go to an MLG (basically it means, that a player must be top 8 or something like that not no loose money.
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On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
So I guess people are not looking forward to the eventual top 16 of MLG, which will be something like the following.
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
Probably need to invite 4 non-Koreans like Idra, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain.
So is this the worst case scenario for MLG?
Its funny cause if the Top 16 looks like that it will look like that for a reason. Not to be mean but regular Olympics draw way more viewers than Special-Olympics.
So if non-Korean Pros will not keep up with Koreans i will be happily looking forward to a Top 16 like that.
Worst case for MLG will be that they only allow 4 Koreans in the whole tournament to protect the non Korean players. Would only lead to a stagnation in skill.
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So tyler will have to go through the open bracket next MLG?
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On June 07 2011 20:28 Senx wrote:
So tyler will have to go through the open bracket next MLG?
It looks like he has to, unless enough players that are seated higher do not take their seat.
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On June 07 2011 20:19 rycho wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
So I guess people are not looking forward to the eventual top 16 of MLG, which will be something like the following.
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
Probably need to invite 4 non-Koreans like Idra, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain.
So is this the worst case scenario for MLG? this might be a troll, i can't really tell. i don't think seeing a live event with what could be the best 16 players in the world would "suck" at all, in fact i think it would be the best event possible. do you people really hate koreans this much?
A live 3-day tournament with those players in the pools + some foreign pros in the open brackets would be a lot better than ... basically anything.
Sundance, move MLG to korea, you know it makes sense.
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KAWAII RICE HWAITING!!!!!!!!!
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On June 07 2011 20:17 labbe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:59 papaz wrote:On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
I love to see every player on that list, however not at the same time in MLG. I already subscribe to GSL and get to watch them there. MLG had a really nice mix of players from different countries and I hope that MLG always will have the healthy mix. It is actually the only "global" lan tournament where we can all see NA/EU/SEA/Korea duke it out which is awesome. Dreamhack has that mix as well, and I dare say that Dreamhack summer will be alot better than MLG Colombus.
agreed, maybe not crowd wise but the games should be good. Also I expect MLG Anaheim to top Dreamhack Summer!
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On June 07 2011 20:28 Senx wrote:
So tyler will have to go through the open bracket next MLG?
unless some a couple of the top16 players don't attend.
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On June 07 2011 19:30 Spicy Pepper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:28 Kraznaya wrote:On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
can't tell if serious :/ Apparently some people are.
1. It's far-fetched due to scheduling conflicts and the fact their teams would have to fly them out.
2. How can you say it would suck when the entertainment value of the games would far exceed that of anything we've seen thus far?
3. I tell those people to get a grip and stop being poor sports.
2 years from now, there's a possibility that these guys will compete in fewer international tournaments based on the fact that OGN/MBC might get deals with Blizzard to start their own leagues and the Pro League will continue to get longer.
They simply won't have time for us, so ENJOY it while it lasts and stop being d-bags about it.
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On June 07 2011 20:27 zocktol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
So I guess people are not looking forward to the eventual top 16 of MLG, which will be something like the following.
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
Probably need to invite 4 non-Koreans like Idra, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain.
So is this the worst case scenario for MLG? Its funny cause if the Top 16 looks like that it will look like that for a reason. Not to be mean but regular Olympics draw way more viewers than Special-Olympics. So if non-Korean Pros will not keep up with Koreans i will be happily looking forward to a Top 16 like that. Worst case for MLG will be that they only allow 4 Koreans in the whole tournament to protect the non Korean players. Would only lead to a stagnation in skill.
Haha that's so mean~ And i wouldn't put Moon, Boxer, Squirtle, or Ace in the top 16~~
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On June 07 2011 21:10 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:30 Spicy Pepper wrote:On June 07 2011 19:28 Kraznaya wrote:On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
can't tell if serious :/ Apparently some people are. 1. It's far-fetched due to scheduling conflicts and the fact their teams would have to fly them out. 2. How can you say it would suck when the entertainment value of the games would far exceed that of anything we've seen thus far? 3. I tell those people to get a grip and stop being poor sports. 2 years from now, there's a possibility that these guys will compete in fewer international tournaments based on the fact that OGN/MBC might get deals with Blizzard to start their own leagues and the Pro League will continue to get longer. They simply won't have time for us, so ENJOY it while it lasts and stop being d-bags about it.
/sarcasm
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I actually have high hopes that Moon will come back on his own costs =), and I think his team would encourage it as well.
Yeah I'm a Moon-fan ;d, and I don't think he deserves the ''he's bad'' shit that he's getting. Hope he will show up @ Anaheim.
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On June 07 2011 21:38 Fyzar wrote:
I actually have high hopes that Moon will come back on his own costs =), and I think his team would encourage it as well.
Yeah I'm a Moon-fan ;d, and I don't think he deserves the ''he's bad'' shit that he's getting. Hope he will show up @ Anaheim.
He stomped foreigners, he can't be that bad :D He's done well at foreign tournaments and he was great in WC3, I don't know why people think he's so bad. The banelings against BitbyBit? What IdrA says? I dunno. I'd like to see him back as well.
Machine falling out and iNcontroL staying in doesn't seem fair.
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On June 07 2011 21:40 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 21:38 Fyzar wrote:
I actually have high hopes that Moon will come back on his own costs =), and I think his team would encourage it as well.
Yeah I'm a Moon-fan ;d, and I don't think he deserves the ''he's bad'' shit that he's getting. Hope he will show up @ Anaheim. He stomped foreigners, he can't be that bad :D He's done well at foreign tournaments and he was great in WC3, I don't know why people think he's so bad. The banelings against BitbyBit? What IdrA says? I dunno. I'd like to see him back as well. Machine falling out and iNcontroL staying in doesn't seem fair.
Yeah exactly, I never got why everyone's like ''he's bad'', yes his baneling bombs were bad versut BitbyBit, but come on, it's BBB who cares what you do. He's been making baneling bombs work lately, and his play is very creative and I like it =].
Dunno, I think it's kinda sad for Machine, he was always cool and MLG is basically all I see from him, also, no more Machine v iNc .
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51411 Posts
On June 07 2011 18:01 Xeris wrote:
From what I understand, 4 new Koreans will be invited each time. The previous Koreans (I.E. MC, MMA, Losira, Moon, July) won't have paid trips, which means if they want to compete again they will need to pay their own way. A Korean outside the Top 16 has little/no incentive to do this (July).
Unknown whether other Koreans will deem it worthwhile to send their players to compete for $14,000. I'd imagine MC and MMA would return (random guess).
Won't the Korean's have the same travel stipend that the other top 16 players have?
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On June 07 2011 21:45 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 18:01 Xeris wrote:
From what I understand, 4 new Koreans will be invited each time. The previous Koreans (I.E. MC, MMA, Losira, Moon, July) won't have paid trips, which means if they want to compete again they will need to pay their own way. A Korean outside the Top 16 has little/no incentive to do this (July).
Unknown whether other Koreans will deem it worthwhile to send their players to compete for $14,000. I'd imagine MC and MMA would return (random guess).
Won't the Korean's have the same travel stipend that the other top 16 players have?
$100 or $200 not nearly enough to cover transpacific roundtrip flight :/
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Thanks for the statistics.
Imagine this scenario :
mc, mma, moon and losira are occupied or don't get the flights paid or what ever that'd mean that maschine, sheth, fenix and tyler were going into pool play. All hope isn't gone...
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GOM still hasn't released their selection process, right ? (about how they'll select the 4 MLG korean players)
This time it was arbitrary, I doubt it will be arbitrary again (unless they do a rotation on each time, but I doubt it)
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From bonus points in the consolation rounds, I believe Sheth is in the top 16. I am not sure on the rest of the story.
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On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
So I guess people are not looking forward to the eventual top 16 of MLG, which will be something like the following.
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
Probably need to invite 4 non-Koreans like Idra, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain.
So is this the worst case scenario for MLG?
I don't think it's a worst case scenario for MLG as it's likely to have a huge viewership.
Edit:Didn't belong in this thread.
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On June 07 2011 20:27 zocktol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
So I guess people are not looking forward to the eventual top 16 of MLG, which will be something like the following.
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
Probably need to invite 4 non-Koreans like Idra, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain.
So is this the worst case scenario for MLG? Its funny cause if the Top 16 looks like that it will look like that for a reason. Not to be mean but regular Olympics draw way more viewers than Special-Olympics. So if non-Korean Pros will not keep up with Koreans i will be happily looking forward to a Top 16 like that. Worst case for MLG will be that they only allow 4 Koreans in the whole tournament to protect the non Korean players. Would only lead to a stagnation in skill.
It's funny you used the Olympics example seeing that there's a stringent contingent of players each COUNTRY can send. You don't see all american and jamaican runners in the 100m sprint competition in Olympics even though skillwise that should be the case.
People don't want to see an all-korean MLG because they can relate more to foreign pros. You see them on stuff like SotG etc. whereas you only get translated interviews with koreans. Also there's GSL that is basically all-korean.
Also, it would obviously be bad marketing for MLG's sponsors to mostly have koreans attending their events who don't chew stride gum and drink Dr. Pepper 
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MLG said that 4 Koreans get invites which means everything is paid for this 4 players. If all the other Koreans (so in this current case MMA, Losira, MC and Moon) want to participate in the next MLG their team will have to pay for all their costs. And I don't know if any of this 4 will go under this circumstances (2 flights, hotel, food for the days isnt that cheap). So I don't know where all this panic comes about only Koreans in the top 16..
Don't forget the 4 korean invites won $10,400 out of a $14,000 prize pool. That means even if they had all paid their own way, even without any sponsor/team money, 3 out of the 4 of them would have made a profit on the trip after travel costs (not to mention public exposure is good for the player as well in securing future sponsors).
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On June 07 2011 21:50 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 21:45 GTR wrote:On June 07 2011 18:01 Xeris wrote:
From what I understand, 4 new Koreans will be invited each time. The previous Koreans (I.E. MC, MMA, Losira, Moon, July) won't have paid trips, which means if they want to compete again they will need to pay their own way. A Korean outside the Top 16 has little/no incentive to do this (July).
Unknown whether other Koreans will deem it worthwhile to send their players to compete for $14,000. I'd imagine MC and MMA would return (random guess).
Won't the Korean's have the same travel stipend that the other top 16 players have? $100 or $200 not nearly enough to cover transpacific roundtrip flight :/
MMA, Losira, and MC would most likely come back since they all placed top 3 at Columbus and earned 9k$.
July would need to convince sponsors to let him go.
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I feel like it must be worth it for some foreigner companies to sponsor the most popular koreans like Nestea, Boxer, MVP etc to international events, their marketing potential is really big.
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Oh man, Drewbie in top 16 seeds, the top 16 looks definitely looks like it could give some awesome matches, and the overall seeds are looking pretty good.
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I'm not on there? :o
I think I'm in the 34 spot, I've got twelve points.
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I don't see why Korean's already competed wouldn't come back. Especially to maintain eligibility for the MLG final/championship whatever thingy at the end. It's going to be up to the team sponsors paying, but I think their sponsors are far better equiped and willing to do that kind of thing. I mean they are already paying for housing, food, etcetera. Sending someone to a tournament isn't that big a deal.
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Sounds like we have a strong Top 16. Sad to see well-known faces like Gretorp and Tyler go but life isn't always fair. Guess they'll have a good run at the open brackets anyways, so GL to them at annalheim. I'm happy that ThorZaIN didn't fail to impress though and the Koreans proved what they worth.
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On June 07 2011 21:38 Fyzar wrote:
I actually have high hopes that Moon will come back on his own costs =), and I think his team would encourage it as well.
Yeah I'm a Moon-fan ;d, and I don't think he deserves the ''he's bad'' shit that he's getting. Hope he will show up @ Anaheim.
MooN's baneling bombs are too entertaining not to enjoy. Both when they fail and succeed
Moon had his own style in WC3 and he's creating his own style in SC2 too but it seems a bit harder to be successful with in SC2.
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On June 07 2011 22:25 Mandalor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 20:27 zocktol wrote:On June 07 2011 19:26 Spicy Pepper wrote:
So I guess people are not looking forward to the eventual top 16 of MLG, which will be something like the following.
Nestea
July
Losira
DRG
Moon
MVP
MKP
MMA
SC
Nada
Boxer
MC
Alicia
San
Squirtle
Ace
How much would this suck to see a live event with these 16 players?
Probably need to invite 4 non-Koreans like Idra, Huk, Naniwa and Thorzain.
So is this the worst case scenario for MLG? Its funny cause if the Top 16 looks like that it will look like that for a reason. Not to be mean but regular Olympics draw way more viewers than Special-Olympics. So if non-Korean Pros will not keep up with Koreans i will be happily looking forward to a Top 16 like that. Worst case for MLG will be that they only allow 4 Koreans in the whole tournament to protect the non Korean players. Would only lead to a stagnation in skill. It's funny you used the Olympics example seeing that there's a stringent contingent of players each COUNTRY can send. You don't see all american and jamaican runners in the 100m sprint competition in Olympics even though skillwise that should be the case. People don't want to see an all-korean MLG because they can relate more to foreign pros. You see them on stuff like SotG etc. whereas you only get translated interviews with koreans. Also there's GSL that is basically all-korean. Also, it would obviously be bad marketing for MLG's sponsors to mostly have koreans attending their events who don't chew stride gum and drink Dr. Pepper
The Olympics are basically a countries best competing for their country, it's a nationality based tournament for your nation, each nation sends their best to compete with the best of others, it was a bad example on his part, put he was focussing more on the side of people being more interested in seeing more skilled players.
MLG, GSL and all these non-restrictive tournaments are individual tournaments, people are representing themselves and perhaps, you could say... their team. It's about deciding who the best players are, not the best countries.
I'd be fine with the top 16 being all korean, because that would mean that all those korean players deserve to be there. I really want foreign players to succeed, but I want them to do it on their own merit, playing against the best, I don't want them to succeed because they're playing against each other like in Brood War. Excluding or limiting a single nation from competition would be entirely against the point of individual competitive sports on my opinion.
For online tournaments, there are logistical reasons to make it NA/EU only so there is some understanding there, but for a LAN tournament, I see no reason why any player that can compete, shouldn't be able to compete.
As for them being invited and placed directly into pool play, I think it would make sense to seed them into the open bracket so they don't run into each other for the sake of fairness, but honestly looking at the results every single Korean player justified their placement into pool play with their performance and July made his open bracket run with ease so it would largely be a formality for most of these players.
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Select at number 6 yeah! Figured after not doing so well he'd be lower than that, either way I'm always a fan of him hes so fun to watch.
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On June 07 2011 18:08 Primadog wrote:
I have been looking at the MLG format until my head hurt and still can't figure out at what point are players guaranteed a spot in the Providence group stage. Maybe someone smarter than yours truly can it figure out.
It depends on who show up. If the top 16 don't show up all but 17-32 do, then those will be the 16 players in pool. the only thing that is certain is if anyone in the top 16 show up, they will be seeded. Anyone at 17th or below may or may not be seeded. For example I think Gretorp was 17th or 18th before this MLG, but because Socke/someone else didn't show up he got pool play again.
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I thought that the top 16 from Columbus got seeded for Anaheim and the points only mattered for the national championship.
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Whoa, Richman with the last slot, nice O:
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On June 07 2011 22:42 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 21:50 Kraznaya wrote:On June 07 2011 21:45 GTR wrote:On June 07 2011 18:01 Xeris wrote:
From what I understand, 4 new Koreans will be invited each time. The previous Koreans (I.E. MC, MMA, Losira, Moon, July) won't have paid trips, which means if they want to compete again they will need to pay their own way. A Korean outside the Top 16 has little/no incentive to do this (July).
Unknown whether other Koreans will deem it worthwhile to send their players to compete for $14,000. I'd imagine MC and MMA would return (random guess).
Won't the Korean's have the same travel stipend that the other top 16 players have? $100 or $200 not nearly enough to cover transpacific roundtrip flight :/ MMA, Losira, and MC would most likely come back since they all placed top 3 at Columbus and earned 9k$. July would need to convince sponsors to let him go.
MLG is almost entirely not worth it for Korean players if they don't get sent. If you think of plane ticket+hotel+food+long trip+jetlag you're looking at much too much cost to battle it out in a tournament where the top prize is 5k. MC does it because he apparently loves interacting with foreigners and has made his money worth every time, but it's just not the same for most Koreans.
I wish MLG got more money from their sponsors or more sponsors so the prize pool could be bigger, making it worth it for more people to come, but I'm sure that's really difficult and they're doing all they can. It's just kind of a sad prize pool for the effort put into each event and the great results that said effort yields. I don't think it's even worth it for Europeans to come over for MLG.
With that said, back to topic. I hope GSL keeps sending players and I hope they get the points that the previous players earned because having to play through the open bracket at MLG is brutal.
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They should change the way they invite Koreans.
Just like GSL give one code S stpo and 3 code A, MLG should place one Korean into Pool Play (maybe two) and the others should be seeded (highly) into the open bracket.
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i think a lot of you guys aren't thinking long term
imagine you are MC
you can spend $10k (and that's probably a high end estimate, don't really know how much a flight from korea to US and back is) flying out to every MLG, continue to increase your seed, and stand to have a very, very good chance at clinching that $50k prize at the end of the rainbow
you have to think of it as a long term business investment, because the regular season events prize pools are small, but the seeding for the championships has a lot of value in and of itself
what would honestly be pretty amusing is if all the european and korean powerhouses who haven't shown up to mlg yet all decide to fly out for the championships resulting in the most insane open bracket of all time
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prize pool is too small. MC,Losira,MMA probly will not come unless they get invites.
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On June 08 2011 00:27 RageBot wrote:
They should change the way they invite Koreans.
Just like GSL give one code S stpo and 3 code A, MLG should place one Korean into Pool Play (maybe two) and the others should be seeded (highly) into the open bracket.
A code S slot is way more prestigious then an MLG pool spot, just as a code A spot is way more prestigious then an open bracket spot.
It would be utterly stupid to ditch the likes of MC, MMA, Losira in the open bracket for day and having them tear through all the lower level players off camera.
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CSN is working with www.esportranks.com to compile actual and real rankings based on tournament finishes in NA. We may need to exclude the Koreans from the list if they only show up for 1 MLG event a year. The MLG format is way too confusing and has major flaws to take as a serious rankings system. A points system in which players are rewarded points for their finish based on the number of events they attend is extremely flawed and does not reward players for how well they do in the events they actually attend.
I was very impressed with how many players finished in this last event.. it would be great to see a real rankings system, using other event results as well. Obviously for CSN.. we would have loved to have seen July go further. Considering the Koreans were the only one to knock out koreans.. it was bound to happen.
Just some interesting numbers to consider..
July played 12 MATCHES and lost 2 and finished with $0
Idra played 16 MAPS and lost 3 matches and finished with $1.4K
cheers..
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Everyone agree that the format is stupid. I trust MLG will change it in time, until that happens we gonna have to endure drewbies,moonans and incontrols in pool play over people who actually had a good showing this weekend. Atleast gretorp is 100% out of pool play in anaheim.
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interesting. thorzain must have beat july, in order to have gotten 9th.
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On June 07 2011 23:52 ReaperX wrote:
Sounds like we have a strong Top 16. Sad to see well-known faces like Gretorp and Tyler go but life isn't always fair. Guess they'll have a good run at the open brackets anyways, so GL to them at annalheim. I'm happy that ThorZaIN didn't fail to impress though and the Koreans proved what they worth.
Gretorp and Tyler out of the top 16 is actually an indication that life IS fair LOL. If you suck for that many MLGs in a row, you don't deserve to be at the top. And sadly enough, I don't forsee either of them making out of the Open Brackets alive at Anaheim or beyond unless they get a massive boost in motivation & performance.
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On June 08 2011 00:48 csn_JohnClark wrote:CSN is working with www.esportranks.com to compile actual and real rankings based on tournament finishes in NA. We may need to exclude the Koreans from the list if they only show up for 1 MLG event a year. The MLG format is way too confusing and has major flaws to take as a serious rankings system. A points system in which players are rewarded points for their finish based on the number of events they attend is extremely flawed and does not reward players for how well they do in the events they actually attend. I was very impressed with how many players finished in this last event.. it would be great to see a real rankings system, using other event results as well. Obviously for CSN.. we would have loved to have seen July go further. Considering the Koreans were the only one to knock out koreans.. it was bound to happen. Just some interesting numbers to consider.. July played 12 MATCHES and lost 2 and finished with $0 Idra played 16 MAPS and lost 3 matches and finished with $1.4K cheers..
I agree the ranking system and format is flawed.
The logic behind the point system is to add incentive for all players not to miss one event or else they get fucked. That's their logic anyway.
As for the prize pool. Sundance said he's working on it. Next season the prize money will certainly double.
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Updated the wiki, and Moon has dropped from 16th to 17th. Machine moves up from 18th to 16th.
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On June 08 2011 01:27 A Wet Shamwow wrote:
Maybe im missing something, but how is vibe in and tyler out? tyler has gotten farther in both MLG's and was seeded to begin with.
I thought I had an answer for this but I don't, seems off to me too.
Edit - NM, Vibe isn't in, the OP just said he is moving up. Tyler is out of the top 16 but still ahead of Vibe.
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On June 07 2011 19:17 zocktol wrote:
Socke still in Top 16, we might see him again then :D
I even think its likely. The main reason he didn´t went to columbus was probably the EPS finals, he already said before that his sponsors care alot more about him doing well in the EPS and I mean he was in the finals.
I´m curious tough how many koreans will be invited to the next Mlg. Are they just inviting the 4 players with the most GLS points or are they first asking if any of the others in pool are coming back?
Edit:
MLG is almost entirely not worth it for Korean players if they don't get sent. If you think of plane ticket+hotel+food+long trip+jetlag you're looking at much too much cost to battle it out in a tournament where the top prize is 5k. MC does it because he apparently loves interacting with foreigners and has made his money worth every time, but it's just not the same for most Koreans.
Well you have to consider that they also earn points for the national championship which has a much bigger prize pool. The first place is about as much as winning a Code S season.
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Moon/MC/Losira/MMA are probably not coming back to the next MLG anyway though right? (well Moon might), so I don't think Machine, Sheth and maybe even Tyler have lost their seeding for the next MLG. Edit: The no-shows would make it just like how other players (i.e. Gretorp retained seeding).
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Finally no more Gretorp and more deserving Terrans (Thorzain) are possibly being given a spot.
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I'd think they would want MMA back with him being the defending champion.
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I think the way this is done needs to be reformed somehow.
It might make sense to give some bonus points for making it from the open bracket to create slightly more natural re-cycling of groups and to give more incentives for players playing from the open bracket.
Given how much harder it is to go far from the open bracket I really think this makes sense and I think it's hard enough that even if the points were given a 20% bonus no player in a pool would volunteer for the open bracket.
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On June 08 2011 01:37 PartyBiscuit wrote:
Moon/MC/Losira/MMA are probably not coming back to the next MLG anyway though right? (well Moon might), so I don't think Machine, Sheth and maybe even Tyler have lost their seeding for the next MLG. Edit: The no-shows would make it just like how other players (i.e. Gretorp retained seeding).
I'm pretty sure in the aftergame interview, MMA said he would come back if invited since he enjoyed MLG so much.
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On June 08 2011 01:41 Blasphemi wrote:
I'd think they would want MMA back with him being the defending champion.
It's not like his team doesn't have a good sponsor. I hope the team sends him if MLG doesn't invite him. MMA probably wants to fire off some kamehameha's and have his name chanted again.
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u forgot socke and huk -_-
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Looks like the system works.
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On June 08 2011 02:01 Feijichang wrote:
Looks like the system works.
No, I still think it's a horrible system. Gretorp has gone 1-11 in the past 2 MLGs, and is STILL ranked 25th? How is that even close to fair?
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MLG needs an airline sponsor, let it be united air or korean air, so bring people around the world to MLG.
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i actually wouldnt be surprised of slayers doesnt want to send MMA after winning it and may try to give their other players a chance at mlg. korean pros often talk about wishing they had the opportunity to participate in big foreign tournaments like mlg, so i wouldnt be surprised if mma turns the nice guy card and lets another teammate try his hand.
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The actual rankings have been released on the mlg site
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On June 08 2011 02:04 Anihc wrote:No, I still think it's a horrible system. Gretorp has gone 1-11 in the past 2 MLGs, and is STILL ranked 25th? How is that even close to fair?
Hi! Devil's advocate here.
The people Gretorp lost to in Columbus are ranked (according to Liquipedia, so not yet adjusted for Columbus tie-breakers):
1st
4th
16th (based on only 1 tournament, with an 8th place finish - so this person deserves better than 16th)
17th
22nd
and 30th (based on 1 tournament, with a 17-20th place finish - so this person deserves better than 30th)
In Dallas, he beat someone who is currently ranked 31st (and who has played in both tournaments).
Based on that, doesn't a ranking of "somewhere between 22nd and 31st" seem almost, well... fair?
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On June 08 2011 02:16 SMD wrote:
The actual rankings have been released on the mlg site
Finally! Thank you.
Here they are.
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On June 08 2011 02:17 Mr Mauve wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:16 SMD wrote:
The actual rankings have been released on the mlg site Finally! Thank you. Here they are.
Wow, the official rankings are vastly different than Xeris'.
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On June 07 2011 18:01 IMSmooth wrote:
Wheres Huk?? He is going to anaheim iirc
Huk is most likely outside the top 16
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On June 08 2011 02:21 entlassen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:17 Mr Mauve wrote:On June 08 2011 02:16 SMD wrote:
The actual rankings have been released on the mlg site Finally! Thank you. Here they are. Wow, the official rankings are vastly different than Xeris'.
Those are the rankings for Columbus only.
The liquipedia page here has now been updated.
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Most important piece of information here: MC, LosirA and IdrA would all be in the same pool should everyone show up for MLG anaheim.
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you forgot Huk. he's got 460 pts.
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On June 08 2011 02:29 DoomsVille wrote:
Most important piece of information here: MC, LosirA and IdrA would all be in the same pool should everyone show up for MLG anaheim.
Huh? How does that come? Losira and MC are only 2 players apart, so they should be in different groups, shouldn't they?
edit: Btw. the Koreans need to place top 5 or above for this trip to become economically viable to them. Even though I think they are capable of doing that, we might not see some of them returning. :sadface:
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MLG can invite the same 4 koreans for Anaheim if they want, correct?
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On June 08 2011 02:33 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:29 DoomsVille wrote:
Most important piece of information here: MC, LosirA and IdrA would all be in the same pool should everyone show up for MLG anaheim. Huh? How does that come? Losira and MC are only 2 players apart, so they should be in different groups, shouldn't they? edit: Btw. the Koreans need to place top 5 or above for this trip to become economically viable to them. Even though I think they are capable of doing that, we might not see some of them returning. :sadface:
LosirA is 7, MC is 10 in the overall rankings. This is how the groups would be:
Group A: 1, 8, 9, 16
Group B: 2, 7, 10, 15
Group C: 3, 6, 11, 14
Group D: 4, 5, 12, 13
That puts losira, mc and idra all in group b. Again this hinges on all of them showing up. Well really you just need everyone ranked 11 or lower to show up. If that happens all 3 will be in the same group.
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On June 08 2011 02:16 Mr Mauve wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:04 Anihc wrote:On June 08 2011 02:01 Feijichang wrote:
Looks like the system works. No, I still think it's a horrible system. Gretorp has gone 1-11 in the past 2 MLGs, and is STILL ranked 25th? How is that even close to fair? Hi! Devil's advocate here. The people Gretorp lost to in Columbus are ranked (according to Liquipedia, so not yet adjusted for Columbus tie-breakers): 1st 4th 16th (based on only 1 tournament, with an 8th place finish - so this person deserves better than 16th) 17th 22nd and 30th (based on 1 tournament, with a 17-20th place finish - so this person deserves better than 30th) In Dallas, he beat someone who is currently ranked 31st (and who has played in both tournaments). Based on that, doesn't a ranking of "somewhere between 22nd and 31st" seem almost, well... fair?
It's not fair that he doesn't even get the chance to play lower seeded people. He didn't win a single match in columbus, yet finished in 27th place. What other tournament allows you to finish in the top 10% by losing everything?
In columbus I only lost to a player who was ranked 23rd, and beat someone ranked 29th. Does that mean I should be ranked somewhere between 24th and 28th?
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On June 08 2011 02:40 DoomsVille wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:33 JustPassingBy wrote:On June 08 2011 02:29 DoomsVille wrote:
Most important piece of information here: MC, LosirA and IdrA would all be in the same pool should everyone show up for MLG anaheim. Huh? How does that come? Losira and MC are only 2 players apart, so they should be in different groups, shouldn't they? edit: Btw. the Koreans need to place top 5 or above for this trip to become economically viable to them. Even though I think they are capable of doing that, we might not see some of them returning. :sadface: LosirA is 7, MC is 10 in the overall rankings. This is how the groups would be: Group A: 1, 8, 9, 16 Group B: 2, 7, 10, 15 Group C: 3, 6, 11, 14 Group D: 4, 5, 12, 13 That puts losira, mc and idra all in group b. Again this hinges on all of them showing up. Well really you just need everyone ranked 11 or lower to show up. If that happens all 3 will be in the same group.
Also, iNcontroL and Machine would be in the same group 8^D
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On June 08 2011 01:56 Shiros wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:37 PartyBiscuit wrote:
Moon/MC/Losira/MMA are probably not coming back to the next MLG anyway though right? (well Moon might), so I don't think Machine, Sheth and maybe even Tyler have lost their seeding for the next MLG. Edit: The no-shows would make it just like how other players (i.e. Gretorp retained seeding). I'm pretty sure in the aftergame interview, MMA said he would come back if invited since he enjoyed MLG so much.
If I remember correctly, they won't reinvite (meaning they'll pay for plane tickets and stay) a korean previously invited, but anyone is free to get there themselves and get seeded with the points they got when they were invited. That means it would be possible to have 8 koreans in pool play next MLG if MMA/MC/Losira/Moon fly in along with the 4 new korean invites.
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I guess people are forgetting, that it will be harder/almost impossible for all Koreans to become seeded during the one tournament, they are invited to. The competition will be tougher due to the already seeded Koreans and the needed points are rising.
So it will not work the way, that with each tournament there will be four more Koreans seeded. (Not that I would be against it)
Sorry, if that was already posted.
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Those rankings on LP still aren't updated. At least from what I can see. It still has players with ranges for their finish in Columbus.
For example: It has Sjow at 250 for Columbus because at the time it was unknown if he finished 13th/14th/15th/16th so they gave him the minimum of 250 for a 16th place finish. However, Sjow finished 13th and earned 340 points.
Also, TLO did only earn 60, but Haypro earned 460. So Haypro will be ahead of TLO by 10 points.
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On June 08 2011 02:42 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:16 Mr Mauve wrote:On June 08 2011 02:04 Anihc wrote:On June 08 2011 02:01 Feijichang wrote:
Looks like the system works. No, I still think it's a horrible system. Gretorp has gone 1-11 in the past 2 MLGs, and is STILL ranked 25th? How is that even close to fair? Hi! Devil's advocate here. The people Gretorp lost to in Columbus are ranked (according to Liquipedia, so not yet adjusted for Columbus tie-breakers): 1st 4th 16th (based on only 1 tournament, with an 8th place finish - so this person deserves better than 16th) 17th 22nd and 30th (based on 1 tournament, with a 17-20th place finish - so this person deserves better than 30th) In Dallas, he beat someone who is currently ranked 31st (and who has played in both tournaments). Based on that, doesn't a ranking of "somewhere between 22nd and 31st" seem almost, well... fair? It's not fair that he doesn't even get the chance to play lower seeded people. He didn't win a single match in columbus, yet finished in 27th place. What other tournament allows you to finish in the top 10% by losing everything?
How about the world's oldest association football competition... the English FA Cup!
762 entrants in 2009/10, but the Premiership and Championship teams don't enter until the 3rd round proper and can't possibly finish below 33rd-64th. BOOM, I WIN!
In columbus I only lost to a player who was ranked 23rd, and beat someone ranked 29th. Does that mean I should be ranked somewhere between 24th and 28th?
Shouldn't that be my first guess?
I'm sorry the system let you down - it sounds like you kicked ass.
(takes off devil's advocate robe and wig)
Look, I'm not saying the system is perfect. I think it should react far quicker than it does. I'm just saying that in Gretorp's case it is at least consistent. And it means that MLG can make videos and compile stats for a few big name players, so for them - it works.
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On June 07 2011 19:12 tooPrime wrote:
So I know MLG would like to get some Koreans in there, but if they invite 4 new Koreans every time and the previous Koreans keep showing up with their plush seedings they got from getting placed into pool play, wouldn't pool play just become mostly Koreans after awhile?
It is sort of like if the GSL gave 6 Code S spots away to foreigners every new tournament.
GSL did give 4 foreigner code A spot last time. Unfortunately, none of them survived except Huk.
GSL could easily give like 4 spots for foreigners in code S, but no offense, it seems impossible for them to stay in code S. Plz name 4 players in MLG who had won 2-3 games v.s. Korean (coz this is minimum required winning number to stay in GSL code S, not to mention Moon and MMA is not current code S player). Wow, I'm sry, the result is none.
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This is what the pools will look like assuming none of koreans seeded in the top 16 (MMA, MC, Losira, and Moon) are invited back for Anaheim:
1. Naniwa 1850
11. Haypro 800
12. TLO 770
20. Tyler 430
2. Idra 1400
9. iNcontroL 920
13. Sjow 740
19. Fenix 460
4. Slush 1190
8. Ret 940
14. Moonan 630
18. Sheth 520
5. Kiwikaki 1140
6. Select 1090
16. Drewbie 540
17. Machine 530
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So Thorzain got 9th this event yet still is ranked 20th and might not be seeded next time. It seems kind of ridiculous he might have to go through the open bracket again how high would whitera need to place to get seeded in the next MLG? Is it even possible for a foreigner with no or few points to get seeded now unless they can beat the Koreans for the top places?(maybe even more than once?)
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On June 08 2011 02:16 Mr Mauve wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:04 Anihc wrote:On June 08 2011 02:01 Feijichang wrote:
Looks like the system works. No, I still think it's a horrible system. Gretorp has gone 1-11 in the past 2 MLGs, and is STILL ranked 25th? How is that even close to fair? Hi! Devil's advocate here. The people Gretorp lost to in Columbus are ranked (according to Liquipedia, so not yet adjusted for Columbus tie-breakers): 1st 4th 16th (based on only 1 tournament, with an 8th place finish - so this person deserves better than 16th) 17th 22nd and 30th (based on 1 tournament, with a 17-20th place finish - so this person deserves better than 30th) In Dallas, he beat someone who is currently ranked 31st (and who has played in both tournaments). Based on that, doesn't a ranking of "somewhere between 22nd and 31st" seem almost, well... fair?
New strong player keep coming. U cant expect MLG still have same shit level of players while it growing. Their system is stupid enough to keep horrible players stays in the pool. If u cant even stay with this current system, it only indicates u are far beyond horrible.
User was warned for this post
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Even for Korean players that end up seeded in the Top 16, it's not even close to 100% that they'll show at the next one. For example, Huk didn't make the trip this time even though he had a seeded spot. Not having the trip paid for and not having the GSL make extra special accomodations for you means it'll be tough. I'd expect maybe two from the last tournament to come to Annaheim, maybe 3. Still, foreign players are going to have to put up results if they don't want to end up in the open bracket going forward.
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Finally Gretorp is out lol
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Thanks for doing this Xeris...i just wish MLG was better about getting us the final standings and even if they dont list the points, at least we can make an accurate representations for ourselves
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Well... Socke should be coming back and he has enough points, but at the same time I'm sure some Koreans won't be coming back, so maybe Machine and Sheth could still get in. I'm hoping Sheth can.
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Why would Sheth get knocked out when he did fairly well this MLG?
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On June 07 2011 21:45 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 18:01 Xeris wrote:
From what I understand, 4 new Koreans will be invited each time. The previous Koreans (I.E. MC, MMA, Losira, Moon, July) won't have paid trips, which means if they want to compete again they will need to pay their own way. A Korean outside the Top 16 has little/no incentive to do this (July).
Unknown whether other Koreans will deem it worthwhile to send their players to compete for $14,000. I'd imagine MC and MMA would return (random guess).
Won't the Korean's have the same travel stipend that the other top 16 players have?
Which is $0... only travel stipend for the National Championship afaik
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I think Socke had to play german EPS finals and therefore wasnt able to come....but i think he will come next time...so dont forget him he has the points
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Is there any word yet on whether SLush, NaNi or Ret will be choosing to take advantage of the Code A opportunity afforded them? I know IdrA wants to stay in the US. If they do not accept, will they simply go down the line until someone accepts?
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OMG since seeds go 2,7,10,15 consider this group B
IdrA
LosirA
MC
Moon
OMG
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On June 08 2011 03:54 Sprouter wrote:
This is what the pools will look like assuming none of koreans seeded in the top 16 (MMA, MC, Losira, and Moon) are invited back for Anaheim:
1. Naniwa 1850
11. Haypro 800
12. TLO 770
20. Tyler 430
2. Idra 1400
9. iNcontroL 920
13. Sjow 740
19. Fenix 460
4. Slush 1190
8. Ret 940
14. Moonan 630
18. Sheth 520
5. Kiwikaki 1140
6. Select 1090
16. Drewbie 540
17. Machine 530
I would assume that MC and MMA's respective teams will probably be sending them to Anaheim, and they have the points to be seeded into group play. Maybe even LosirA will be sent as well.
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On June 08 2011 04:39 IPA wrote:
Is there any word yet on whether SLush, NaNi or Ret will be choosing to take advantage of the Code A opportunity afforded them? I know IdrA wants to stay in the US. If they do not accept, will they simply go down the line until someone accepts?
Yes
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On June 08 2011 04:48 AgentSmith wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 04:39 IPA wrote:
Is there any word yet on whether SLush, NaNi or Ret will be choosing to take advantage of the Code A opportunity afforded them? I know IdrA wants to stay in the US. If they do not accept, will they simply go down the line until someone accepts? Yes
Does that Yes mean Slush, Nani and Ret have accepted? My question is: who is going to Code A via MLG opportunity?
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On June 08 2011 04:52 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 04:48 AgentSmith wrote:On June 08 2011 04:39 IPA wrote:
Is there any word yet on whether SLush, NaNi or Ret will be choosing to take advantage of the Code A opportunity afforded them? I know IdrA wants to stay in the US. If they do not accept, will they simply go down the line until someone accepts? Yes Does that Yes mean Slush, Nani and Ret have accepted? My question is: who is going to Code A via MLG opportunity?
I think he's referring to
If they do not accept, will they simply go down the line until someone accepts?
MLGLee said (Twitter) that they'll announce the code A invites when all 3 people interested in going confirm.
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On June 08 2011 04:52 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 04:48 AgentSmith wrote:On June 08 2011 04:39 IPA wrote:
Is there any word yet on whether SLush, NaNi or Ret will be choosing to take advantage of the Code A opportunity afforded them? I know IdrA wants to stay in the US. If they do not accept, will they simply go down the line until someone accepts? Yes Does that Yes mean Slush, Nani and Ret have accepted? My question is: who is going to Code A via MLG opportunity?
Slush said no. Ret probably won't since he just came from there. I'm not sure about Naniwa though.
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On June 08 2011 02:36 Titan48 wrote:
MLG can invite the same 4 koreans for Anaheim if they want, correct?
Technically they could, though I would imagine there is going to be more interest from all teams to get one of their code a players into Anaheim because of the Code S slot.
Maybe they can have a mini-tournament or something? That would be a cool way to pick the representatives instead of GOM just picking without parameters.
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Hopefully MMA comes back again. That way he has two chances to make Code S, which is where he belongs
As for new invites, Nestea and MVP PLEASE!
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Looking at these rankings makes me feel more and more like MLG Dallas 2011 should have been one large double elimination tournament and then after that they should have moved into pool play. Some players still in the top 16 performed well last year but are honestly not of the same calibre that a lot of the players outside the top 16 are.
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lol I really hope they don't just go down the list and take the first three that accepts. There is really no point sending the ranked 14th, 16th, 18th foreigner there to Code A, as Code A does have a lot of good Koreans already, their chance of getting to Code S is next to nil. I'd much rather those spots just open up to more worthy Code B Koreans, as getting thru that qualifier is already hell.
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On June 08 2011 03:54 coolcor wrote:
So Thorzain got 9th this event yet still is ranked 20th and might not be seeded next time. It seems kind of ridiculous he might have to go through the open bracket again how high would whitera need to place to get seeded in the next MLG? Is it even possible for a foreigner with no or few points to get seeded now unless they can beat the Koreans for the top places?(maybe even more than once?)
It seems like sort of a ridiculous "snowball" system in which the seeded players have a better chance of getting a strong showing, thus getting more points and being seeded higher. I think they could alter the system by giving more weight to recent events (like, Columbus is worth 1.5x the points of Dallas. After Anaheim, Ana pts are 1.5x, Columbus is 1x, Dallas is .75x, etc.) This would make recent results more important than past results and give a better chance to newcomers.
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Naniwa being number one, nice
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So the changes to the pool are as follows:
- Tyler
- Drewbie
- Gretorp
- Sheth
- moon
+ Socke
+ 4 korean invites
Socke enters (hopefully), but by placing 6th in Dalles he was invited to Columbus anyways. He just couldn't make it due to the Esl finals.
Instead of Socke, Sheth got a shot into the pool, but sadly failed to get himself a seed for the next MLG by "only" placing 14th (making him top 10 non-Korean in that event).
Tyler, Drewbie, Gretorp and Moon will make place for 4 new Korean invites, Moon barely failing to get a seeding by "only" finishing 8th place and losing to Machine by 10 mere points.
By the way, just wanted to note that the fears of MLG being flooded by Koreans is unreasonable. The farther we are into an MLG season, the more points you need to get a seed. In Columbus, placing 8th wasn't sufficient for Moon to gain a seed and in Anaheim, placing 6th or 7th might not be sufficient either.
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Hopefully the MMA, MC, and Losira can come back and play again!
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All depends on the Koreans, Because if none of the same koreans show up (i.e. a different group from the GSL) machine, sheth, Fenix, Tyler might still have seed shots.
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Question? If someone who is in the top 16 doesn't make it to the next tournament do they just bump up the next player? I know Huk had to play in the open bracket. When he had more points because of his late sign up.
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On June 09 2011 02:19 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Question? If someone who is in the top 16 doesn't make it to the next tournament do they just bump up the next player? I know Huk had to play in the open bracket. When he had more points because of his late sign up.
Seth (17th place before Columbus) got into the pool, because Socke (6th place before Columbus) couldn't make it.
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On June 09 2011 02:09 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 03:54 coolcor wrote:
So Thorzain got 9th this event yet still is ranked 20th and might not be seeded next time. It seems kind of ridiculous he might have to go through the open bracket again how high would whitera need to place to get seeded in the next MLG? Is it even possible for a foreigner with no or few points to get seeded now unless they can beat the Koreans for the top places?(maybe even more than once?) It seems like sort of a ridiculous "snowball" system in which the seeded players have a better chance of getting a strong showing, thus getting more points and being seeded higher. I think they could alter the system by giving more weight to recent events (like, Columbus is worth 1.5x the points of Dallas. After Anaheim, Ana pts are 1.5x, Columbus is 1x, Dallas is .75x, etc.) This would make recent results more important than past results and give a better chance to newcomers.
I think they're trying to reward players who show up and work hard for each event to make it deep into the MLG final event (rewarded by favorable seeding) but it is true it makes it very hard to break in, especially for someone deserving like thorzain
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I think the problem with the Korean Seeding is MLG isn't taking this on the scale of GSL.
MLG Pool play is 16 players
Code A or S are 32
Having 3 / 4 Americans to come over to participate in a Ro32 is fine as it doesn't clog the bracket up with non Koreans like the problem we're seeing now.
MLG should really just invite 2 Koreans to pool play and then let CSN or whoever have their Open bracket guy (should they do that again) but of course the problem could end up the same 8 MLGs down the road when they could have possibly slowly all clawed their way into the Top 16.
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On June 09 2011 02:21 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 02:09 Cel.erity wrote:On June 08 2011 03:54 coolcor wrote:
So Thorzain got 9th this event yet still is ranked 20th and might not be seeded next time. It seems kind of ridiculous he might have to go through the open bracket again how high would whitera need to place to get seeded in the next MLG? Is it even possible for a foreigner with no or few points to get seeded now unless they can beat the Koreans for the top places?(maybe even more than once?) It seems like sort of a ridiculous "snowball" system in which the seeded players have a better chance of getting a strong showing, thus getting more points and being seeded higher. I think they could alter the system by giving more weight to recent events (like, Columbus is worth 1.5x the points of Dallas. After Anaheim, Ana pts are 1.5x, Columbus is 1x, Dallas is .75x, etc.) This would make recent results more important than past results and give a better chance to newcomers. I think they're trying to reward players who show up and work hard for each event to make it deep into the MLG final event (rewarded by favorable seeding) but it is true it makes it very hard to break in, especially for someone deserving like thorzain
Even worse, Moon who placed 8th (hence one place above Thorzain) can't make it into the pool, because Machine placed 15th twice and thus has more points than him.
Anyways, the rules are the same for everyone. If either Moon or Thorzain decides to show up once again and place decently high (like 15th or so), it should be sufficient to guarantee a seed into the next tournaments.
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i dont get why people say omg idra is in a group of death. Man if idra is truly a pro competitor give it in sc2 or a sport these kind of things drive athletes like myself to become better. When the odds are against you, you train more to get better. You are determined to destroy your opponents. If you are seeded into a weaker group then you probably won't practice nearly as hard which will screw you cause you will still have to play different opponents aside from ones in your group after group stages is over. Idra should be thankful that he got the group he has gotten. Maybe this time he'll try harder and wont gg out of won games
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On June 09 2011 02:45 Limenade wrote:
i dont get why people say omg idra is in a group of death. Man if idra is truly a pro competitor give it in sc2 or a sport these kind of things drive athletes like myself to become better. When the odds are against you, you train more to get better. You are determined to destroy your opponents. If you are seeded into a weaker group then you probably won't practice nearly as hard which will screw you cause you will still have to play different opponents aside from ones in your group after group stages is over. Idra should be thankful that he got the group he has gotten. Maybe this time he'll try harder and wont gg out of won games
Wtf lol. Any competitor would prefer a weaker group until the actual championship bracket.
You challenge yourself when money is on the line, not when you are trying to get a good seed.
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I think a mod should edit the OP to include a link to the liquipedia article. The OP's rankings are incorrect.
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On June 09 2011 02:47 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 02:45 Limenade wrote:
i dont get why people say omg idra is in a group of death. Man if idra is truly a pro competitor give it in sc2 or a sport these kind of things drive athletes like myself to become better. When the odds are against you, you train more to get better. You are determined to destroy your opponents. If you are seeded into a weaker group then you probably won't practice nearly as hard which will screw you cause you will still have to play different opponents aside from ones in your group after group stages is over. Idra should be thankful that he got the group he has gotten. Maybe this time he'll try harder and wont gg out of won games Wtf lol. Any competitor would prefer a weaker group until the actual championship bracket. You challenge yourself when money is on the line, not when you are trying to get a good seed.
What? How ISNT money on the line, especially with MLG's extended series? Your post doesnt make any sense in arguing against Limenades point.
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On June 09 2011 03:16 Holcan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 02:47 Mailing wrote:On June 09 2011 02:45 Limenade wrote:
i dont get why people say omg idra is in a group of death. Man if idra is truly a pro competitor give it in sc2 or a sport these kind of things drive athletes like myself to become better. When the odds are against you, you train more to get better. You are determined to destroy your opponents. If you are seeded into a weaker group then you probably won't practice nearly as hard which will screw you cause you will still have to play different opponents aside from ones in your group after group stages is over. Idra should be thankful that he got the group he has gotten. Maybe this time he'll try harder and wont gg out of won games Wtf lol. Any competitor would prefer a weaker group until the actual championship bracket. You challenge yourself when money is on the line, not when you are trying to get a good seed. What? How ISNT money on the line, especially with MLG's extended series? Your post doesnt make any sense in arguing against Limenades point.
You always want to play the stronger opponents last.
Do you think MC rather have played Alicia in the Ro64 of the GSL or played San, or maybe TheWind?
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Hmm if they bring in completely new Koreans the next time I'm afraid not all of the players will return.
Also I expect a LOT of Koreans to make the trip for the National Championship. That Open tournament could get really ugly.
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On June 09 2011 03:35 Horse...falcon wrote:
Hmm if they bring in completely new Koreans the next time I'm afraid not all of the players will return.
Also I expect a LOT of Koreans to make the trip for the National Championship. That Open tournament could get really ugly.
you have to have certain rankins and I don't think that many koreans will be able to play in it.
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On June 09 2011 03:14 kNightLite wrote:
I think a mod should edit the OP to include a link to the liquipedia article. The OP's rankings are incorrect.
You mean that OP would make an OP based on incorrect facts ? Impossible ! :D
Sorry about that, had to do it :p
Thorzain will likely not be seeded again if he place around the same in next MLG with the global inflation of points. I really want to see more of him, going 4-2 against MC + beating idra is pretty good. The kid is not a fluke.
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On June 09 2011 02:45 Limenade wrote:
i dont get why people say omg idra is in a group of death. Man if idra is truly a pro competitor give it in sc2 or a sport these kind of things drive athletes like myself to become better. When the odds are against you, you train more to get better. You are determined to destroy your opponents. If you are seeded into a weaker group then you probably won't practice nearly as hard which will screw you cause you will still have to play different opponents aside from ones in your group after group stages is over. Idra should be thankful that he got the group he has gotten. Maybe this time he'll try harder and wont gg out of won games
Don't be an idiot.
Whether someone is motivated by competition or not has nothing to do with something being a group of death. Which is why the hardest group of any competition is given the name.
Anti-fans on the net will take any chance they get to try and shit on someone.
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as amazing as the system is at providing top quality games from day 1, and helping put the spotlight on the consistent players, it is a little hard to drop out of the top 16 unless you basically lose 5 bo3's in a row 
it might be nice to allow 8-12 players in from the open brack sometimes, since there are definitely alot of pros who could play to the level of the top players, having to take massive routes through the open bracket while players like gretorp (sorry gretorp ) who are not exactly "TOP tier" get a guaranteed top 24.
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I was shocked to see Tyler actually did worse (rank wise) this MLG
He played so much better overall imo
Sucks me might be in the open bracket
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On June 09 2011 03:49 killerdog wrote:as amazing as the system is at providing top quality games from day 1, and helping put the spotlight on the consistent players, it is a little hard to drop out of the top 16 unless you basically lose 5 bo3's in a row it might be nice to allow 8-12 players in from the open brack sometimes, since there are definitely alot of pros who could play to the level of the top players, having to take massive routes through the open bracket while players like gretorp (sorry gretorp ) who are not exactly "TOP tier" get a guaranteed top 24.
On the other hand, creating storylines/rivalry/fan favourites from a solid and continous playerpool is worth alot to MLG and the industry as a whole.
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8748 Posts
On June 09 2011 03:49 killerdog wrote:as amazing as the system is at providing top quality games from day 1, and helping put the spotlight on the consistent players, it is a little hard to drop out of the top 16 unless you basically lose 5 bo3's in a row it might be nice to allow 8-12 players in from the open brack sometimes, since there are definitely alot of pros who could play to the level of the top players, having to take massive routes through the open bracket while players like gretorp (sorry gretorp ) who are not exactly "TOP tier" get a guaranteed top 24.
12 players get through the open bracket. 4 go to pool play and have a chance to get seeded high into the championship bracket. The other 8 automatically start at round 1 of the championship bracket.
To get top 16 from pool play, 6th in the group must win 3 bo3's, 5th must win 2 bo3's, 4th must win 1 bo3, and 3rd place is automatically in the top 16 (can lose first match after pool play and will be 13th-16th). So there's definitely some good opportunity for the open players to get top 16. Or from the other perspective, it's not super easy for a seeded player to get top 16, especially in a really hard group with good players coming from the open bracket too. The problem is the accumulation of rank points. If an open player just barely breaks into the top 16 at the 3rd or 4th or 5th event, he has pretty much no chance of getting a top 16 for next event. Most of the changing around happens in the first two events. Like if a person with no rank points goes to Anaheim, they'll probably have to get like top 5 in order to get seeded into Raleigh. Pretty rough.
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Solution to GSL/MLG crossover problems:
Foreign players win GSL.
At that point we can drop the foregin/Korean distinctions and just have a straight-up exchange of placing players.
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On June 09 2011 04:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Like if a person with no rank points goes to Anaheim, they'll probably have to get like top 5 in order to get seeded into Raleigh. Pretty rough.
While true, anyone finishing in the top 16 or so is good enough to roll over almost everyone in the open bracket (in my opinion)
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These are just the standings from Columbus, which is not the point of this thread at all.
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Jesus, hasn't Naniwa only participated in two MLG? Winning from the open bracket sure racks up the points!
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everybody only participated in only 2 MLG so far this season. points reset after every season of course.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
hope they invite July in the next exchange, he certainly deserves it
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On June 09 2011 04:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:49 killerdog wrote:as amazing as the system is at providing top quality games from day 1, and helping put the spotlight on the consistent players, it is a little hard to drop out of the top 16 unless you basically lose 5 bo3's in a row it might be nice to allow 8-12 players in from the open brack sometimes, since there are definitely alot of pros who could play to the level of the top players, having to take massive routes through the open bracket while players like gretorp (sorry gretorp ) who are not exactly "TOP tier" get a guaranteed top 24. 12 players get through the open bracket. 4 go to pool play and have a chance to get seeded high into the championship bracket. The other 8 automatically start at round 1 of the championship bracket. To get top 16 from pool play, 6th in the group must win 3 bo3's, 5th must win 2 bo3's, 4th must win 1 bo3, and 3rd place is automatically in the top 16 (can lose first match after pool play and will be 13th-16th). So there's definitely some good opportunity for the open players to get top 16. Or from the other perspective, it's not super easy for a seeded player to get top 16, especially in a really hard group with good players coming from the open bracket too. The problem is the accumulation of rank points. If an open player just barely breaks into the top 16 at the 3rd or 4th or 5th event, he has pretty much no chance of getting a top 16 for next event. Most of the changing around happens in the first two events. Like if a person with no rank points goes to Anaheim, they'll probably have to get like top 5 in order to get seeded into Raleigh. Pretty rough.
Great summary, this definitely helped ^^
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On June 09 2011 04:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:49 killerdog wrote:as amazing as the system is at providing top quality games from day 1, and helping put the spotlight on the consistent players, it is a little hard to drop out of the top 16 unless you basically lose 5 bo3's in a row it might be nice to allow 8-12 players in from the open brack sometimes, since there are definitely alot of pros who could play to the level of the top players, having to take massive routes through the open bracket while players like gretorp (sorry gretorp ) who are not exactly "TOP tier" get a guaranteed top 24. 12 players get through the open bracket. 4 go to pool play and have a chance to get seeded high into the championship bracket. The other 8 automatically start at round 1 of the championship bracket. To get top 16 from pool play, 6th in the group must win 3 bo3's, 5th must win 2 bo3's, 4th must win 1 bo3, and 3rd place is automatically in the top 16 (can lose first match after pool play and will be 13th-16th). So there's definitely some good opportunity for the open players to get top 16. Or from the other perspective, it's not super easy for a seeded player to get top 16, especially in a really hard group with good players coming from the open bracket too. The problem is the accumulation of rank points. If an open player just barely breaks into the top 16 at the 3rd or 4th or 5th event, he has pretty much no chance of getting a top 16 for next event. Most of the changing around happens in the first two events. Like if a person with no rank points goes to Anaheim, they'll probably have to get like top 5 in order to get seeded into Raleigh. Pretty rough.
For fun, I I tried to put some bones on this by running a simulation of how things might pan out in Anaheim and Raleigh.
TLDR: Getting a top 16 seed with your first trip might require a 1st-3rd finish in Anaheim. Only a win would do in Raleigh.
A superb new seeded entrant from Korea (Bomber, say) who wins Anaheim would be seeded 10th for Raleigh. If his new-entrant buddies came 2nd-4th, the guy in 4th would not achieve a top 16 seed for Raleigh. If another, superber new entrant won Raleigh, he'd scrape 16th seed for Orlando.
Assumptions:
+ Show Spoiler +1. Absolutely everyone with MLG ranking points turns up to Raleigh (Note - this probably won't actually happen, and each established player who doesn't show up makes it slightly easier for a new entrant to snag a seed).
2. No-one else new enters the Open bracket - no Strelok, no White-Ra, no whoever.
3. I use the Elo rating from the TLPD International database to determine the order in which people finish, except for the 4 Korean invites to each tournament - I can put them wherever I like. At the time of writing, that's MC > MMA > Thorzain > IdrA > ... and so on. This is a bit harsh on newcomers, but hey. I allow for the fact that pool players can't finish below 28th.
These are not perfect assumptions, but they are arbitrary (in the good sense that they allow one to make decisions) and they'll do.
Now, imagine 4 Koreans are invited to Anaheim... and they're amazing! They take the top four places, and everyone cheers. Let's call them Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and Bomber (and the greatest of these is Bomber).
Here's my finishing order:
+ Show Spoiler +1. Bomber 1200
2. Jesus 1000
3. Mary 900
4. Joseph 800
5. MC 700
6. MMA 650
7. Thorzain 600
8. IdrA 550
9. Moon 490
10. LosirA 460
11. NaNiwa 430
12. Ret 400
13. July 340
14. KiWiKaKi 310
15. Sheth 280
16. MorroW 250
17. HuK 210
18. KawaiiRice 200
19. TT1 190
20. Sjow 180
21. SLush 140
22. SeleCT 130
23. Socke 120
24. mOoNan 110
25. HayprO 90
26. TLO 80
27. iNcontroL 70
27. Machine 70
Here would be the ranking points after Anaheim:
+ Show Spoiler +1. NaNiwa 2280
2. IdrA 1950
3. MMA 1850
4. MC 1600
5. LosirA 1460
6. KiWiKaKi 1450
7. Ret 1340
8. SLush 1330
9. SeleCT 1210
10. Bomber 1200
11. Thorzain 1090
12. Moon 1040
13. Jesus 1000
13. iNcontroL 1000
15. Sjow 920
16. Mary 900
17. HayprO 860
18. TLO 840
19. Joseph 800
Poor old Joseph!
If GOM send The Greatest Starcraft Player Of All Time (With A Brick Wall On His Head) to Raleigh, and he wins, he would scrape 16th place in the overall rankings by the skin of his infernal teeth, if I do the same calculation again. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph would comfortably secure their spots in the top 16.
I haven't bothered with Orlando.
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EPT
