EPTIt sucks but the other option is much less exposure and possibly a poor image for eSports. In this case the growth outweighs watching your language on a major cast.
Should the industry self-rate like the ESRB does?
Casting Language Standards - Page 29
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Lokken
United States24 Posts
It sucks but the other option is much less exposure and possibly a poor image for eSports. In this case the growth outweighs watching your language on a major cast. Should the industry self-rate like the ESRB does? | ||
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
On May 27 2011 08:48 Megaliskuu wrote: I agree with incontrol, BUT ONLY AMERICAN ENGLISH CAUSE ITS THE BEST ENGLISH YEEEEHAAAAW That sentence had too many "S"s, you need to basterdise it and put in some more "Z"s. Sorry, basterdize. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 27 2011 08:51 Lokken wrote: Unfortunately going mainstream makes the prudish/PC meter start inching upward, so to keep that viewer-ship high and that money flowing the content provided needs to have its sharp edges rounded. It sucks but the other option is much less exposure and possibly a poor image for eSports. In this case the growth outweighs watching your language on a major cast. Should the industry self-rate like the ESRB does? I don't know about that. Also, I think the labeling on the box should cover as a sufficient rating for most, if not all major Starcraft 2 casts. Nothing exceeds what you would expect from reading the back of the Starcraft 2 box, the T rating with the little notes. It's made to be age appropriate for it's audience and for those who are fine with allowing folks younger than it's recommendation to watch it. I don't really think we need to self-rate any more than the language notification that R1CH set up(good job on that by the way). That should be up to the streamers and casters to notify if they're going to exceed the threshold with explicit content, otherwise the default assumption(and the content of almost all major events) should be roughly the T-rating with it's little notes. | ||
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Webdager
10 Posts
On May 27 2011 08:45 Kolvacs wrote: Well, only if they scream "NIEN". Then, and ONLY then, will that be acceptable for non-English speaking people to cast sc2. (It's sad that I had to google how to spell that xD) ----- I really like the idea to add the "maturity level" thingy to stream settings. I hope this will help people out! I know for myself, sometimes I really dislike when people swear, and then sometimes I don't mind it at all! Yay R1CH, saving the ESPORTS day one change at a time! ----- TB is an awesome caster ^^. What's wrong with bringing new people into a game? That's like saying, "NO I DUN WAN STARCRAFF TO GROO ANYMO!". Sheeeeesh -_______________-. Well, actually it is "nein" lol. "When those two vowels go walking, the second one does the talking". (Taking German in high school). On topic: I don't necessarily agree with censorship or providing two forms of a cast (one uncensored and one clean), but I do like the addition of the warnings/notices. A broadcaster shouldn't feel obligated to change their content for those that don't like it, but they should have some sort of indicator as to the level of language used. | ||
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VillageBC
322 Posts
On May 27 2011 08:39 Mordiford wrote: *snip* Similarly, the point being brought up is the rating of the game is there, you can look at the rating and assume that's the age expectation, so if you are letting your kids play and watch the game, that's all well and good, but then it looks stupid if you complain about the content which is equivalent to the label on the bloody box. *snip* I just don't believe the rating of the game, and the rating of cast are intrinsically linked like that. Guess it's just a fundamental difference in how I view it. I listen to SC2 without watching it quite often just like I'll listen to hockey play by play on the radio. So the cast and the game are separate items to me and evaluated as such. | ||
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Kolvacs
Canada1203 Posts
On May 27 2011 08:59 Webdager wrote: Well, actually it is "nein" lol. "When those two vowels go walking, the second one does the talking". (Taking German in high school). On topic: I don't necessarily agree with censorship or providing two forms of a cast (one uncensored and one clean), but I do like the addition of the warnings/notices. A broadcaster shouldn't feel obligated to change their content for those that don't like it, but they should have some sort of indicator as to the level of language used. =[ DAMN IT LOL! xD | ||
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BondGamer
61 Posts
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zanderfever.TV
United States362 Posts
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 27 2011 09:22 BondGamer wrote: Something everyone needs to keep in mind about ESRB and other official game ratings is they do not take online interaction into account. The rating is specifically for content inside the game. If ESRB took into account multiplayer interaction and communication, Starcraft 2 and almost every MMO would be rated Adults Only. If SC2 had said fuck a single time in the game dialog it would have been rated 17+. They don't take online interaction into account, but that doesn't change the minimum rating of the game, for example, WoW is rated T with all it's notes, with online interaction not rated though the game is purely online, the content of the game is still T and it can't go any lower than that, but online interaction may take it higher. That said, most casters keep casts around a PG-13ish level, which is roughly equivalent to a T rating(though I do believe the ESRB has some different takes on language). All major events are pretty much PG-13, with content matching what you would expect from the labeling on the Starcraft 2 box. | ||
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TheRealNidhogg
Canada23 Posts
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sick_transit
United States195 Posts
I also find this kind of language offensive and inappropriate for kids and I frankly don't enjoy listening to it. But I don't expect or want to impose my standards on others. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 27 2011 09:41 sick_transit wrote: For those who disagree with the OP let me put a different spin on it: sponsors. Anyone who is serious about bringing sponsorship dollars into this sport should be active in making its public image G-rated. All it would take is for some story to run in a newspaper about how starcraft casters use the word "rape" in casts and the next thing you know it will be bye-bye sponsors. I also find this kind of language offensive and inappropriate for kids and I frankly don't enjoy listening to it. But I don't expect or want to impose my standards on others. I don't think you have to be straight up G-rated to bring in sponsorship or money... The word "rape" has already been mentioned as inappropriate for a cast for reasons outside of age appropriation. | ||
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warsinger
United States17 Posts
On May 27 2011 06:48 R1CH wrote: I added an option on the TL stream control panel to mark the language level. This is purely voluntary and is the responsibility of the streamer to set correctly, but hopefully this should help you find streams which don't have any bad language if that's what you want. so many things going through my head right now to say but the best i can do is "Thank You" this is a big step in the right direction and I hope it will be used effectively and not abused. I certainly plan on supporting those streams that take the effort to be "family friendly" | ||
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J_D
United States102 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On May 27 2011 09:33 TheRealNidhogg wrote: Starcraft is Rated T for Teen, look on the box. it is NOT rated PG. i totally understand where the OP is coming from but i disagree with him. I am not saying it's ok to be constantly making mature jokes, however there is nothing wrong with them coming up once in a while. as for cursing, whats the big deal?? it's just a word, hearing an F-bomb here or there is nothing to freak out about. Can you "unlearn" that F-word (and similar stuff) from any kids who pick it up from these casts?(*1) I doubt it, so why can you say that it isnt something to freak about? The alternative is not to have kids watch Starcraft, but that would hinder the growth. Our language deteriorates / gets more brutal / shitty all the time, but that isnt an improvement. So we should do everything we can to halt this development. You can swear using not so bad words, but the sad story is that most people only know f... (*1) Since there isnt any prescience to detect bad words to be said in 5 seconds the viewing can't even be censored by attentive parents. These parents are a myth anyways, because todays society creates too many single-parents, households which have two parents with jobs or "freedom loving" parents who dont look after their children out of the desire to "be nice". So any "bright idea" to put the controlling aspect on the viewers doesnt work. | ||
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Starfox
Austria699 Posts
Can't those companies agree on making the text in those films somewhat kidfriendly ("Fuck me in the ass and cum all over my face" is not kidfriendly!!11) I as a parent myself can't, for the love of god, stand all this parenting crap. Why do I have to do it, I already made those little things, now it's your turn "rest of the world" to do your best so my kid does not get involved with things it shouldn't. Damn fuck, I CAN'T EVEN VISIT A STRIPCLUB WITH MY 8 YEAR OLD WITHOUT HIM SEEING SOME BOOBS AND NIPPLES. Fix that society, for fucks sake. I mean seriously, I hate to tell you but: your kids - your responsibility in parenting them, not society's | ||
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FeiLing
Germany428 Posts
Now concerning kids ... so maybe you can prevent them from learning the F-word in starcraft, but are you locking them in or what? Aren't they going outside to play or even to school? Guess where they get these words from, if not from their parents... right, from EVERYWHERE else (except maybe TV (kinda ironic, since you see boobs there (and also everywhere on the streets (commercial posters etc)) all the time). Pretty pointless trying to ninja-mute streams imho... rather teach them not so say such things, even if they heard them already and hear them others say every few seconds. BTW, in Germany they don't censor f- and similar words in television and I'm pretty sure kids don't run around shouting them all the time. At least not more than American kids do. | ||
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dOofuS
United States342 Posts
On May 27 2011 13:53 Starfox wrote: So I have two kids, 4 and 8, and I really like to listen to porn on full blast on through speakers on the background. Can't those companies agree on making the text in those films somewhat kidfriendly ("Fuck me in the ass and cum all over my face" is not kidfriendly!!11) I as a parent myself can't, for the love of god, stand all this parenting crap. Why do I have to do it, I already made those little things, now it's your turn "rest of the world" to do your best so my kid does not get involved with things it shouldn't. Damn fuck, I CAN'T EVEN VISIT A STRIPCLUB WITH MY 8 YEAR OLD WITHOUT HIM SEEING SOME BOOBS AND NIPPLES. Fix that society, for fucks sake. I mean seriously, I hate to tell you but: your kids - your responsibility in parenting them, not society's This is so thoughtful. Your insight is invaluable. Thank you for that. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On May 27 2011 13:53 Starfox wrote: So I have two kids, 4 and 8, and I really like to listen to porn on full blast on through speakers on the background. Can't those companies agree on making the text in those films somewhat kidfriendly ("Fuck me in the ass and cum all over my face" is not kidfriendly!!11) I as a parent myself can't, for the love of god, stand all this parenting crap. Why do I have to do it, I already made those little things, now it's your turn "rest of the world" to do your best so my kid does not get involved with things it shouldn't. Damn fuck, I CAN'T EVEN VISIT A STRIPCLUB WITH MY 8 YEAR OLD WITHOUT HIM SEEING SOME BOOBS AND NIPPLES. Fix that society, for fucks sake. I mean seriously, I hate to tell you but: your kids - your responsibility in parenting them, not society's So you think its everyones own responsibility that they can defend themseves against robbers and that the police - which is the representative of society - shouldnt help you out? Great idea because we can just get rid of all those cops and save tons of tax money. [/sarcasm off] Your analogy with porn stinks, because porn isnt intended for minors. Sure there is lots of free porn on the internet which smartass boys will find and spread eventually, but obviously that isnt something which society should act upon. [*sigh*] [/sarcasm off second try] Everyone is responsible for how they behave in public and saying they shouldnt be held responsible for it is just stupid. It isnt just the parents job to show kids how to behave correctly, its everyones job. So if your kids arent at home but some friends of theirs come over it is NOT OK for you to take them into the living room where you are watching your porn and do what you have to do while watching that. It is your responsibility to "behave" ... even though they ARENT YOUR KIDS. The same holds true for everywhere a kid might watch you, so better not cross that street while the traffic light in front of that school is red for pedestrians and whatnot ... | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:52 Rabiator wrote: So you think its everyones own responsibility that they can defend themseves against robbers and that the police - which is the representative of society - shouldnt help you out? Great idea because we can just get rid of all those cops and save tons of tax money. [/sarcasm off] Your analogy with porn stinks, because porn isnt intended for minors. Sure there is lots of free porn on the internet which smartass boys will find and spread eventually, but obviously that isnt something which society should act upon. [*sigh*] [/sarcasm off second try] Everyone is responsible for how they behave in public and saying they shouldnt be held responsible for it is just stupid. It isnt just the parents job to show kids how to behave correctly, its everyones job. So if your kids arent at home but some friends of theirs come over it is NOT OK for you to take them into the living room where you are watching your porn and do what you have to do while watching that. It is your responsibility to "behave" ... even though they ARENT YOUR KIDS. The same holds true for everywhere a kid might watch you, so better not cross that street while the traffic light in front of that school is red for pedestrians and whatnot ... You make absolutely no sense. You use your stupid assault/robbery analogy but it's already pointed out why that's a failed analogy itself. Furthermore, Starcraft 2 and casting events, leagues and tournaments aren't "the public", those are private events for a game with an age recommendation. Your analogies don't work and while his was excessive because of the nature of pornography, his point remains. So, I like leaving It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia on, it's got some rotten language and vulgar jokes in it, now is it the shows responsibility if my kids are negatively affected by it when it's not necessarily intended for them? It comes with an age recommendation and anyone younger than the recommended age being exposed to it is the responsibility of the guardian. If you're fine with exposing them to such content, then that's your decision, there are many parents who expose their children to content below the recommended age and they turn out just fine. The rating is there, the content is age appropriate to the rating, if you're exposing this content to people younger than the recommended age, that's your call but it isn't on everybody else to moderate the age appropriate content so that it's appropriate for the people you're exposing it to. | ||
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