For anyone who didn't see the epic throwdown this morning (for me) between Old Generations and MVP in the GSTL 3, it ended on a very bitter note for oGs (specifically MC). The drama began when MVPDongRaeGu sniped oGsNaDa. TheWind sent in a Terran (SuperNoVa) to take care of the Zerg who killed both NaDa and MarineKingPrime. After picking SuperNoVa apart, DongRaeGu celebrated with his team, and went over to the oGs bench; there he talked some smack and, with a flick of his wrist, dismissed the oGs team and their choice to face him.
At this point, the series was 3-2 in favor of MVP, so the natural choice was MC. When it was time to go, MC didn't waste any time; he swiftly got up, walked over to DongRaeGu's booth, and punched the glass, startling the Zerg, and showing how acceptable his little bm action was. During the game, MC 1gate FEs and techs to a Stargate on Crevasse to his pocket expansion, and DongRaeGu breaks MC with the 2-base roach/ling all-in style NesTea showcased in the Code S finals against InCa. By the time MC's two Voids clean up all the lings (who danced a couple of times before getting killed off), MC has only 1 probe, no nexus, and about 100 minerals. He taps out.
DongRaeGu expresses his happiness by exiting his booth and pounding his fists on the glass of MC's booth, wherein Min Chul sat, shocked and distressed at his loss.
I think the little exchanges of BM is enough to put a blip on oGs' radar, to say the least. MC, certainly, is going to love a chance to get revenge on the impudent liddle Zerg that all-inned him then danced lings in his base. I hope these guys meet in future matches, because, hey, rivalries can be good for the game.
It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
MC played very greedy and got punished. all MC had in his base was 2 sentries and 2 zealots. of course he's gonna lose to ~10 roaches and ~20 zerglings.
On May 19 2011 00:00 stangstang wrote: that wasn't an all in. it was just an attack.
MC played very greedy and got punished. all MC had in his base was 2 sentries and 2 zealots. of course he's gonna lose to ~10 roaches and ~20 zerglings.
I agree that he played greedy and got punished BUT that was clearly an allin. If he didnt kill MC outright or deal decent amount of damage. He would be having 19 drones off two base and no lair tech.. Its an allin.
I don't think these kinds of ceremonies are enough for a rivalry, really.
It would have been much more interesting to see SlayerS and IM rivalry develop as I see a potential long-term rivalry in team leagues between the two. Shame IM didn't make it this time though. =(
On May 19 2011 00:00 stangstang wrote: that wasn't an all in. it was just an attack.
MC played very greedy and got punished. all MC had in his base was 2 sentries and 2 zealots. of course he's gonna lose to ~10 roaches and ~20 zerglings.
I agree that he played greedy and got punished BUT that was clearly an allin. If he didnt kill MC outright or deal decent amount of damage. He would be having 19 drones off two base and no lair tech.. Its an allin.
then all he does is drone up for the next 5 minutes. MC has no army. yes of course he would have been behind but he wouldn't have downright lost the moment the attack failed.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
That is a really poor way to describe DRG's hard-earned win. They have surely done their research on MC. Maybe you should reflect on your game analysis a little and realize that DRG simply punished excessively greedy play by MC.
On May 19 2011 00:00 stangstang wrote: that wasn't an all in. it was just an attack.
MC played very greedy and got punished. all MC had in his base was 2 sentries and 2 zealots. of course he's gonna lose to ~10 roaches and ~20 zerglings.
LoL. No. I think running like 10 roaches and 20 lings that early in the game is the definition of allin. You are pretty much committed into killing the nexus or you will be behind.
No denying that MC just chose a bad build to play against roach ling allins on that build. But after defending bombers marine scv allin he must have been pretty confident in his micro.
There is no need to get upset on an allin either way
DRG denied the scout, and he knows that in a long game it COULD be hard to face MC
So you go All-in, not to mention that you ALSO in the case that you lose you still have someone else in your team who could perhaps take on MC.
In this map, MC is known for expanding quickly on this map, frankly anyone does with that free expo pretty much.
It was a well thought out risk/reward, he took it, MC lost.
This is not the GSL, this isn't a BoX, this is the Teamleague, contrary to popular belief appearently, they are not NEARLY the same in both games, atittude and strategy.
the map also tailors well to this build, the fact that you can take down the rocks to open a much wider choke.
Though I didn't see this, it strikes me as going a little too far to knock on the glass, let alone pound it. People can chose to watch ceremonies or not, but it's hard to ignore someone assaulting your pod. I hope GOM makes a statement regarding this.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
in the end winning is all that matters.
Okay? No one said that he didn't win, I said it's annoying constantly seeing all-ins against him and you shouldn't act cocky off executing the roach/ling all-in and having a build order win. If he plays in any way that skips out defense capable of holding a complete all-in, which puts him behind if his opponent just decides to sit back in macro, he is suddenly extremely greedy. If he plays too safely, he loses in the long-run.
Perhaps not a rivalry(not yet at least), but certainly MC/OGS now got a grudge against DRG/MVP. Perhaps it could develop into a rivalry if MVP establishes itself as a solid team, and some more BM ensues.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
What a ridiculous post.
Anyways, those were such entertaining games. It just solidified what, in my eyes, is the best SC2 league. This new rivalry only adds to it; it helps add some storyline which some have been critical that there is a lack of. I can't wait for a rematch.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
What a ridiculous post.
Anyways, that was such an entertaining match. It just solidified what, in my eyes, is the best SC2 league. I can't wait for a rematch.
Lol, what was ridiculous about it? Was it not an all-in? Does he not basically get all-inned every time he plays in the GSTL? Do people not say MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays? Did DRG not act cocky with his ceremony after accomplishing something with a build order win?
I really don't understand what the hell everyone is going on about all ins for?
They scout the other teams players. MC has been showing he is playing greedy and therefor he will be suffering if you throw pressure on him early.
MVP knew this and as soon MC stepped in the booth they threw him a tailor made strat to beat him.
And now you go on about well if he would have played a long game he would have lost? So what? The point is to secure a win for your team and get to the finals. And depending on matchup you either go all-in, early pressure, macro or whatever else the scouting infromation on the other player tells you.
Imagine a Wrestler and a Boxer having going into a fight. You are the MVP was the Wrestler and MC the Boxer(I know I know, boxer), now how would you approach this fight as MVP? You obviously dont stand and throw punches with him you take him to were he is weak. The ground. MVPs team did exactly this to MC and OGS.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
in the end winning is all that matters.
Okay? No one said that he didn't win, I said it's annoying constantly seeing all-ins against him and you shouldn't act cocky off executing the roach/ling all-in and having a build order win. If he plays in any way that skips out defense capable of holding a complete all-in, which puts him behind if his opponent just decides to sit back in macro, he is suddenly extremely greedy. If he plays too safely, he loses in the long-run.
Welcome to starcraft. when you're good, you're suppose to play safe and rely on your macro and decision making to catchup and win against your opponent. when you do what mc did, you lose with 2 zealots and 2 sentry's and you look bad.
On May 19 2011 00:18 englocked wrote: A mediocre zerg can beat top terrans... Ban me if you want but that's a fact.
Obvious troll is obvious... or, conversely, stupid scrub is stupid. Enjoy your martyr ban, lol.
MC likes a little drama, imo. Based on some of his comments (IMMvp is dodging me, etc), he thrives on it. I think this can only make the next team league more entertaining.
Amazing how "pros" spend weeks talking about how MC plays risky and people let him get away with it and when someone finally beats him for doing so people start moaning!
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
What a ridiculous post.
Anyways, that was such an entertaining match. It just solidified what, in my eyes, is the best SC2 league. I can't wait for a rematch.
Lol, what was ridiculous about it? Was it not an all-in? Does he not basically get all-inned every time he plays in the GSTL? Do people not say MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays? Did DRG not act cocky with his ceremony after accomplishing something with a build order win?
The fact that you completely discount his victory because it was an "all-in" is ridiculous and completely out of place in this thread. He was the better player regardless of any of that, which makes any poor comment by you irrelevant and pointless. He deserved to be cocky like he was, and I think it's something that adds to the game.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
in the end winning is all that matters.
Okay? No one said that he didn't win, I said it's annoying constantly seeing all-ins against him and you shouldn't act cocky off executing the roach/ling all-in and having a build order win. If he plays in any way that skips out defense capable of holding a complete all-in, which puts him behind if his opponent just decides to sit back in macro, he is suddenly extremely greedy. If he plays too safely, he loses in the long-run.
Welcome to starcraft. when you're good, you're suppose to play safe and rely on your macro and decision making to catchup and win against your opponent. when you do what mc did, you lose with 2 zealots and 2 sentry's and you look bad.
Welcome to Starcraft, where if you put yourself at an early disadvantage by playing too safe in the early game then no matter how good your macro or decision making is you are still at a large disadvantage. When you don't do what mc did you end up with tons of units with no map control while the zerg is freely droning up for a powerful mid-game.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
What a ridiculous post.
Anyways, that was such an entertaining match. It just solidified what, in my eyes, is the best SC2 league. I can't wait for a rematch.
Lol, what was ridiculous about it? Was it not an all-in? Does he not basically get all-inned every time he plays in the GSTL? Do people not say MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays? Did DRG not act cocky with his ceremony after accomplishing something with a build order win?
The fact that you completely discount his victory because it was an "all-in" is ridiculous and completely out of place in this thread. He was the better player regardless of any of that, which makes any poor comment by you irrelevant and pointless. He deserved to be cocky like he was, and I think it's something that adds to the game.
How was he the better player regardless of his all-in? The entirety of his play was the all-in. He didn't go past Dong executing his build-order, which has absolutely nothing to do with being the better player. It makes you the luckier player.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
What a ridiculous post.
Anyways, that was such an entertaining match. It just solidified what, in my eyes, is the best SC2 league. I can't wait for a rematch.
Lol, what was ridiculous about it? Was it not an all-in? Does he not basically get all-inned every time he plays in the GSTL? Do people not say MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays? Did DRG not act cocky with his ceremony after accomplishing something with a build order win?
Yes it was an all in but i don't see problem. MC is known to incredible risky stuff and somehow gets away it. gass stolen (less sentries to defend, hint hint) denied scout fast expand AND stargate? Explain me why would NOT attack when someone is doing that build against you? And the BM, well its known now MC is getting known for it so ppl do it to taunt him. Then MC punched his booth and somehow he is not allowed to BM back? MC "begged" for it if he managed to lose.
I have a strong feeling that GOM is going to start moderating behavior... I don't want them to, but I don't think they appreciate people punching their booths.
On May 19 2011 00:24 bmml wrote: Amazing how "pros" spend weeks talking about how MC plays risky and people let him get away with it and when someone finally beats him for doing so people start moaning!
oGs have always been crap in team league, the only match they've won in teamleague is where they didn't put MC up last, which they decided to do this time (perhaps reluctant to put him up against DongRaeGu) === DongRoll :O
DongRaeGu has shown long macro games and quick aggressive games. He has shown a wide variety of play styles.
All DongRaeGu did in this game is took a book out of MC's playbook. MC is strong with his early aggression that is almost never an all in. It's about time zerg took a step out of their base in the early game and didn't let protoss play passively.
I like how this thread is about maybe a rivalry between the two teams due to the antics and results, and ends up being a discussion about MC's game.
I think oGs is glad to make rivals, and I think MVP is the same after seeing the intros for Genius and DRG. I'm looking forward to see how SlayerS and MVP come out in the finals because maybe that'll be the true rivalry :D
On May 19 2011 00:30 xza wrote: oGs' decision making skills are interesting.
After DRG sniped Nada convincingly, they sent another terran -_-
Lol yeah, I wondered about that too. They picked Crossfire as the map, which is a great map for TvZ... maybe they thought SuperNoVas tank play would be too good for drg to handle?
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
in the end winning is all that matters.
Okay? No one said that he didn't win, I said it's annoying constantly seeing all-ins against him and you shouldn't act cocky off executing the roach/ling all-in and having a build order win. If he plays in any way that skips out defense capable of holding a complete all-in, which puts him behind if his opponent just decides to sit back in macro, he is suddenly extremely greedy. If he plays too safely, he loses in the long-run.
Welcome to starcraft. when you're good, you're suppose to play safe and rely on your macro and decision making to catchup and win against your opponent. when you do what mc did, you lose with 2 zealots and 2 sentry's and you look bad.
Welcome to Starcraft, where if you put yourself at an early disadvantage by playing too safe in the early game then no matter how good your macro or decision making is you are still at a large disadvantage. When you don't do what mc did you end up with tons of units with no map control while the zerg is freely droning up for a powerful mid-game.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
What a ridiculous post.
Anyways, that was such an entertaining match. It just solidified what, in my eyes, is the best SC2 league. I can't wait for a rematch.
Lol, what was ridiculous about it? Was it not an all-in? Does he not basically get all-inned every time he plays in the GSTL? Do people not say MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays? Did DRG not act cocky with his ceremony after accomplishing something with a build order win?
The fact that you completely discount his victory because it was an "all-in" is ridiculous and completely out of place in this thread. He was the better player regardless of any of that, which makes any poor comment by you irrelevant and pointless. He deserved to be cocky like he was, and I think it's something that adds to the game.
How was he the better player regardless of his all-in? The entirety of his play was the all-in. He didn't go past Dong executing his build-order, which has absolutely nothing to do with being the better player. It makes you the luckier player.
He was the better player because his "all-in", which for some reason you do not consider a viable strategy and ignore, won him the game. Dong didn't let him execute his build order. If MC had been the better player in that isolated instance of a match of StarCraft, then he would have been victorious. But, hey, he wasn't. Therefore he was the lesser player. MC was completely and totally outplayed and did not deserve to win.
On May 19 2011 00:27 GreEny K wrote: I have a strong feeling that GOM is going to start moderating behavior... I don't want them to, but I don't think they appreciate people punching their booths.
Seconded. SC2 is a very intense games that involves a lot of nerves. After a loss players can become very unpredictable, and if someone comes over and punches their glass - I wouldn't be surprised if a fistfight erupted sooner or later. Granted - Nerds can't fight and it would look hilarious for most people. And seeing two groups of unfit SC2 pros slapping and girly kicking each other on the main stage of GOM. I don't think I would stop laughing for days. But it would be unpleasant to the handful of elderly citizens trying to find the shopping channel website. After the reading the outrage from 3 letters - GOM will force every player to wear a muzzle and have both their hands and feet cuffed before entering the booth. Escorted by GOM security, of course. A new era will dawn in E-sports where the games remind the audience more of prisoners shanking each other, then about people playing video games.
On May 19 2011 00:27 GreEny K wrote: I have a strong feeling that GOM is going to start moderating behavior... I don't want them to, but I don't think they appreciate people punching their booths.
Seconded. SC2 is a very intense games that involves a lot of nerves. After a loss players can become very unpredictable, and if someone comes over and punches their glass - I wouldn't be surprised if a fistfight erupted sooner or later. Granted - Nerds can't fight and it would look hilarious for most people. But it would be unpleasant to the handful of elderly citizens trying to find the shopping channel. After the reading the outrage from 3 letters - GOM will force every player to wear a muzzle and have both their hands and feet cuffed before entering the booth. Escorted by GOM security, of course. A new era will dawn in E-sports where the games remind the audience more of prisoners shanking snitches, then about people playing video games.
I don't see why banning the ridiculous ceremonies, which have become common place in GSTL esspecially, is a bad thing. I mean from what I've seen they are worse than FBH's, which is a step too far imo.
DRG saw that he went 1 gateway expand, so in response he stole the gas and threw down a quick roach warren. MC played very greedy. He went 1 gate -> expo -> stargate. If he thinks he safe from attack with all that tech and money spent on an expo, he is just plain wrong. MC probably assumed that DRG would play macro style and you can't just assume things in SC2.
On May 19 2011 00:27 GreEny K wrote: I have a strong feeling that GOM is going to start moderating behavior... I don't want them to, but I don't think they appreciate people punching their booths.
Seconded. SC2 is a very intense games that involves a lot of nerves. After a loss players can become very unpredictable, and if someone comes over and punches their glass - I wouldn't be surprised if a fistfight erupted sooner or later. Granted - Nerds can't fight and it would look hilarious for most people. But it would be unpleasant to the handful of elderly citizens trying to find the shopping channel. After the reading the outrage from 3 letters - GOM will force every player to wear a muzzle and have both their hands and feet cuffed before entering the booth. Escorted by GOM security, of course. A new era will dawn in E-sports where the games remind the audience more of prisoners shanking snitches, then about people playing video games.
I don't see why banning the ridiculous ceremonies, which have become common place in GSTL esspecially, is a bad thing. I mean from what I've seen they are worse than FBH's, which is a step too far imo.
I never was in starcraft brood war, only saw a couple vids but did FBH actually hitted something physically? The only thing i seen him done was gestures and taunting.
On May 19 2011 00:00 stangstang wrote: that wasn't an all in. it was just an attack.
MC played very greedy and got punished. all MC had in his base was 2 sentries and 2 zealots. of course he's gonna lose to ~10 roaches and ~20 zerglings.
LoL. No. I think running like 10 roaches and 20 lings that early in the game is the definition of allin. You are pretty much committed into killing the nexus or you will be behind.
No denying that MC just chose a bad build to play against roach ling allins on that build. But after defending bombers marine scv allin he must have been pretty confident in his micro.
Yeah but there's not really a question of "can I kill the nexus" against one gate FE you are pretty much guaranteed to kill it so there is little risk with doing an attack like that. It's probably even safer than trying to go toe to toe economically against one gate FE so I wouldn't consider it all in.
Its just a little BM, losing one game doesn't make it a rivalry. Sure when this happens 2-3 times.
People jump of the rivalry band wagon far to much, its as if they are trying to create one out of nothing. Like people play once a lil bit of BM, boom instantly a thread on new rivalry!?
On May 19 2011 00:37 tenkka wrote: DRG saw that he went 1 gateway expand, so in response he stole the gas and threw down a quick roach warren. MC played very greedy. He went 1 gate -> expo -> stargate. If he thinks he safe from attack with all that tech and money spent on an expo, he is just plain wrong. MC probably assumed that DRG would play macro style and you can't just assume things in SC2.
he would have been safe if it was a narrow ramp, he had 2 sentries with LOTS of forcefields. but it was a wide ramp map. he should have known that and went with a different build.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
That is a really poor way to describe DRG's hard-earned win. They have surely done their research on MC. Maybe you should reflect on your game analysis a little and realize that DRG simply punished excessively greedy play by MC.
these two statements don't contradict each other.
MC does get allined almost every game, and people do give him crap whatever he does, whether it's cheese, 2base play, macro, win or lose, whatever, it comes with being the top dog.
and he did get punished for excessively greedy play, it's how he lost almost the entirety of his recent matches where he was defeated.
DRG deserved his victory in full, actually there's very few cases where a win can be called unearned if you think about it.
the thing to note here is the BM was a bit over the top by both; doesn't warrant a rivalry though, drg made a splash this league, but there's been others like him in the two previous seasons who have yet to even make it into the GSL. despite the win today, both him and his team have a long way to go to prove themselves to get to the level of achevement and respect of MC and Ogs,
and Ogs needs to not send MC last when every opposing team is gonna have ~2 people who prepared nothing but a snipe build for him - a lesson i thought they had learned during the previous two seasons judging from yesterday's match.
On May 19 2011 00:08 T0fuuu wrote: LoL. No. I think running like 10 roaches and 20 lings that early in the game is the definition of allin. You are pretty much committed into killing the nexus or you will be behind.
'or you'll be behind' isn't all-in, 'or you're guaranteed to lose' is an all-in.
On DRG vs MC: I think it's more like MC reminding us a little bit of his Brood War career, where he had the nickname of "Suicide Toss" (after doing a "throat cutting" before a game he lost), rather than DongRaeGu getting itchy for a "rivalry".
On DongRaeGu's strategy: DongRaeGu can randomly make weird decisions in the game and execute them with a straight head. I remember him massing zerglings off of 13 drones against a 4 warpgate allin. Thing is, that ramp can't be protected that easily after a gas steal. And well, less than 20 drones, 2 bases, no tech, it's actually a semi-allin at the very least.
On May 19 2011 00:18 englocked wrote: A mediocre zerg can beat top terrans... Ban me if you want but that's a fact.
A "mediocre" zerg can beat top terrans as long as he doesn't make whereas "top" terrans do.
"Punching the glass" "Pounding his fists on the booth"
ok I guess it may generate more replies from people who didn't see it, but you make it sound way worse than it was.
I must admit though I think that contact with the booth the players are in is a bit over the line. Dance around, wave flags, ass slap each other on the team but knocking on the booth the other payer is in is a bit too much.
On May 19 2011 00:56 SweetenemY wrote: GSL is full of immature behaviour
imo
I think more Drama => More exciting, Rivalries spice the game up and make it more interesting.
Actual drama is just horrible and degrades the scene and community imo. It only generates hate.
But people have to understand that ceremonies in Korea aren't really "bad manner" and "drama". It's just ceremonial, all done in good fun. They do it for show, and everyone is aware of that.
On May 19 2011 00:56 SweetenemY wrote: GSL is full of immature behaviour
imo
I think more Drama => More exciting, Rivalries spice the game up and make it more interesting.
Excitement can be raised without dumb down the level of behavior. One can at least have respect for each other. BM doesnt make anyone look intelligent - if someone want "babe-mud-wrestling" to satisfy the hunger for the lower-order needs, they should probably not watch GomTV.
hihi everything is allin if it is below 30 workers it seems lol. I wonder if people even think about cutting workers is just to get ahead by killing of stuff from the opponent. And clearly zerg is the best race when it comes to cut workers. If you ignore the orbital that will cut 2 workers to gain 5 mineral workers that can't build or fight.
Anyway if they get more feedback because they act like kids, of course they will get worse everytime. I don't really think they will hate each other just because one of the players run through the whole team and shows off a little.
1. MC wasn't all-inned by DRG. It was a big attack, but certainly not an all-in.
2. DRG played amazingly consistent and strong throughout the series, but if MC had done a safer opening, he would have held it just fine. A 3-gate, for example, would have been more than enough. MC blew it.
3. I love MC's cockiness, but I also loved DRG's celebrations too.
4. DRG totally deserved to get in everyone's face; he was an absolute baller today.
5. For the record, I'm an MC fanboy. That being said, I was incredibly impressed by DRG today.
I think people still misinterpret the phrase "all-in".
There's a true "all-in" which involves pulling all your workers with your attack (what Terrans usually do) which are truely, all-ins. If you lose the battle you lose the game.
The vast majority of other "all-ins" could be defined as attacks which must do a significant amount of damage to your opponent or you will be extremely far behind. Doesn't have to win you the game outright but that's what this game appeared to be. Yes, it is an all-in, but he did enough damage for it to be justified.
With that said, as long as neither player were actually hitting each other physically, wouldn't mind seeing more of this
I thought it was a real shitty way to end an epic day of 2 team Bo7's That would be the rivalry. Ogs has more players then anyone else in GSL and MVP's whole team is basicaly a joke considering their best isn't in GSL. Really really cool seeing all the BM around just bitter at zergs still.
qq zergs finaly found something thats OP can't wait to see them get their first nerf bat.
Edit: Guys its an allin Nestea said it himself after the finals. Its just like all the roach rush's and the polts that went around for a bit until protoss developed a better BO.
On May 19 2011 01:18 sermokala wrote: I thought it was a real shitty way to end an epic day of 2 team Bo7's That would be the rivalry. Ogs has more players then anyone else in GSL and MVP's whole team is basicaly a joke considering their best isn't in GSL. Really really cool seeing all the BM around just bitter at zergs still.
qq zergs finaly found something thats OP can't wait to see them get their first nerf bat.
GSL has really spoilt peoples ways of thinking about whos "good" and whos "bad", sc2 needs a dedicated longterm team league bad.
On May 19 2011 00:56 SweetenemY wrote: GSL is full of immature behaviour
imo
I think more Drama => More exciting, Rivalries spice the game up and make it more interesting.
Excitement can be raised without dumb down the level of behavior. One can at least have respect for each other. BM doesnt make anyone look intelligent - if someone want "babe-mud-wrestling" to satisfy the hunger for the lower-order needs, they should probably not watch GomTV.
You're the problem with the community, man. It's just actions over a VIDEO GAME. That's it. I'm not demeaning video games, I'm just saying that no one really thinks that people are outrageously stupid if they BM someone. We all get mad, and sometimes it's fun to talk shit to people, because it creates drama, and tense games where you have to out think your opponent, because now emotion is running through you, and you must take the better of it, or you will lose.
It's all part of games like this. Stop pretending that you don't get mad or never feel the need to criticize people (ironically, you're doing that with your post claiming someone who BMs is less intelligent). You're not better than us, and fuck you buddy if you think you are.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
every game mc plays is risky, its either risky econ or all in. he got punished for going risky econ.
MC deserves a lil dicktreatment tbh, especially after his not so humble words against July in their GSL finals. It's a good thing this Zerg player stomped him.
On May 19 2011 01:37 GoKu` wrote: 1 clan match now equals a rivalry! EVERYONE HATES EVERYONE NOW!
Liquid Hates EG Root hates Liquid Dignitas hates Root EG hates COL IDRA HATES HUK(that one is actually a rivalry)
no... this isn't a freakin rivalry lol. MVP won barely and 99% of people would still say oGs is the better team.
Meh, it's hard to say really. A month ago everyone would have said SlayerS was the weakest team in the GSTL, but, you can't really gauge the strength of up-and-coming players. The Code A qualifiers are brutal, and so is Code A itself. oGs obviously has the more accomplished and experienced lineup, but personally I'm loving seeing these new teams come out of the woodwork. I'd argue that MVP probably used their strongest players and oGs didn't, though; that much is true.
Not a rivalry at all. Perhaps MC is a little pissed at DRG but it will show IF DRG ever makes it up to code S (will take at least 2 months if it even happens) or during the next team league if ogs and mvp meet again. Anyway, it can't be a rivalry if these people barely play each other.
MC went for an economic allin by doing a 1gate nexus expand. he was perfectly aware that he would probably lose the game if the zerg decided to do an early attack.
Honestly I loved the celebrations and booth hitting etc. I don't think the players take it too seriously, they just want to provide a little entertainment and something for us to talk about. GSTL is a little more lighthearted but at the same time, the team format provides great matches. I hope to see more of the same in future GSTLs.
Regarding the BM, it was quite rude, but MC isnt an angel either, what about at the RO8 when he picked up a chair and sat down in the middle of studio with a clear attitude"This is to easy, bring me something so i dont fall asleep"
oGsTOP also displayed Nunchuck skills after a battle that MC won(If i remeber correctly, not 100% sure about it)
And i honestly think that its abit like war when playing in gstl, your team mates work you up to such an extent that you just got to get some adrenaline out of the body.
So yeah, let them have a fun, it is great entertainment value for gomTV
On May 19 2011 01:18 sermokala wrote: I thought it was a real shitty way to end an epic day of 2 team Bo7's That would be the rivalry. Ogs has more players then anyone else in GSL and MVP's whole team is basicaly a joke considering their best isn't in GSL. Really really cool seeing all the BM around just bitter at zergs still.
qq zergs finaly found something thats OP can't wait to see them get their first nerf bat.
GSL has really spoilt peoples ways of thinking about whos "good" and whos "bad", sc2 needs a dedicated longterm team league bad.
This! It is SOOO hard to get into code S, one bad day and you're out of code A. Even though some players that really shine in GSTL isn't in code S does not by any means mean they were just lucky in the games they play i GSTL. I bet there are still many, many players that could be in code S or code A, but aren't because it's so hard to get into. GSTL lets these players get some attention they deserve. Punishing a greedy player for a win? How is that not good play? You play to win, you play to beat one of the best players in the world. If you see an opportunity, you take it!
That being said. Great games today! Really excited for the finals!
There is no "rivalry," is this just competitive taunting with no real feelings behind it. It is just each team want's to win and put on a good show. There are no hard feelings between any teams. They probably go out to eat or play soccer together sometimes ^_^
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
in the end winning is all that matters.
MC wins a lot anyway even thought people like 80% of the games tries to all-in him.
MC played like a fucking idiot, like he's been asleep the entire last month of speedling/roach builds. He's seriously going to 1 gate FE -> stargate EVEN THOUGH HE GOT GAS STOLEN? Zerg could've had fucking ultralisks before he got void rays out, he would've died to any kind of attack at all, including a pure speedling attack.
I don't know why MC would think that was a good build for Crevasse, I really don't, especially considering he's so much better than his opponent that he could've just done a 4gate, or a 6gate and crushed him with unit control.
Personally, I love seeing the rivalries. But I don't think they take it far enough. I feel Starcraft needs to go in the direction of the NBA. Mad smack talk coupled with players fighting tooth and nail to dominate each other.
When MC hit DRG's booth it was kind of a "Holy shit is he serious?" moment. When DRG did it back to MC though you could tell he was just having fun and it was god damn hilarious.
I don't think there's any rivalry going on between OGS and MVP. The BM going on between the teams this GSTL is at an all-time high, but I think it's all in good fun. Look at the BM between oGs and Startale, but in the interview they said they had close relations with ST, so there's no animosity there.
Well i watched the Vods and i think its not even as serious as stated out in this thread. Its not like a "im gonna hit u in the face" agressive gesture its just a soft little "suck it" like punch. I think its not a really big deal anyway, when people put so much effort into the game its just natural that sometimes they cant control themselves. I personally like to see stuff like that because imo Korean players look way to robotic sometimes.
And regarding the game itself, ofcourse what dongraegu did was kind of an all in , but whats the deal about it? If you see your enemy going 1 gate expand and u manage to steal his gas u know you are going to do alot of dmg, especially on this map where you can break up the choke. It instead was a fault of mc, who could have anticipated that raegu is going to do something very agressive after the double gas steal. Theres nothing wrong with doing an allin if you know its going to kill your opponent . If you are at a certain point in a game and u know "I need exactly this to win the game" regardless what it is, it would be stupid to not do it.
::::So I heard that in the first game of GSL March, MC did a expansion cancel into 4gate rush..... that's not all in? wat.::::
also: ST.Bomber and IMLosira. Not. A. Rivalry, they are friendly with each other
.... also, really if someone slammed my window like that, I'd knock on their window like what he did when I win ofc. oO (on another note, as a spectator I don't really care about it, as long as he didn't actually break the window oO;) (plus it wasn't that hard)
as in rivalry..... don't think so... if they/their players face in the regular GSL events and continue to win/lose against each other, than most likely, yea.
I don't think that is is necessarily a rivalry, but one could spur from these little BM actions that you have described, but I wouldn't start by calling it a rivalry
On May 19 2011 00:40 Benjef wrote: Its just a little BM, losing one game doesn't make it a rivalry. Sure when this happens 2-3 times.
People jump of the rivalry band wagon far to much, its as if they are trying to create one out of nothing. Like people play once a lil bit of BM, boom instantly a thread on new rivalry!?
To NA or EU it's just a little BM, but Koreans pride themselves on their manners, which is part of the reason that the SC community is so friendly and WM. That sort of BM in Korea would be like HuK spitting in IdrA's face after beating him with hallucinated Void Rays in MLG.
On May 19 2011 00:40 Benjef wrote: Its just a little BM, losing one game doesn't make it a rivalry. Sure when this happens 2-3 times.
People jump of the rivalry band wagon far to much, its as if they are trying to create one out of nothing. Like people play once a lil bit of BM, boom instantly a thread on new rivalry!?
To NA or EU it's just a little BM, but Koreans pride themselves on their manners, which is part of the reason that the SC community is so friendly and WM. That sort of BM in Korea would be like HuK spitting in IdrA's face after beating him with hallucinated Void Rays in MLG.
It was just for show. There was never any malicious intent.
The OP and some of you people take this stuff too seriously. Have you guys forgotten that SC2 is entertainment? Not only are the games fun to watch, but also some drama is fun. They are just doing all the dancing and stuff to make it more interesting for the viewers and for "slow/sensitive" fans like the OP something to think about.
MC even said it himself once in an interview that how he acts on stage is different from how he is in private. Same with idra, who says some comments for the sake of entertainment and foreseeable overreaction by some fans.
If you think there's real beef and that the 2 teams will get into a knife fight in a dark alley over a video game, then here are my final words for you. YOU GOT TROLLED, hard by these funny ass sc2 players.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
Its getting a bit annoying people not being critical of MC's decision making. So what if he got allin-ed, if hes the better player he should be using safe builds. Not trying to get away with stuff that puts him, miles ahead if it works or dead on the spot to a bit of pressure.
MC's build was ridiculous, He tried to get out units, expand and tech all at once. Also MC is the person i'm least sympathetic about loosing to an allins. Given the frequency in which he all-ins.
If Mc thinks hes as good has he presents him self to be. He needs to buy safety in the early game, so he can do his thing in the mid game. The builds he's going are something less confident players should be doing to get an edge.
On May 18 2011 23:57 Heavenly wrote: It's getting a little bit annoying seeing MC all-inned every single game he plays, then people complain MC is incapable of doing anything but two base plays or scream that he's in a slump. Then they act cocky like they accomplished something with a build order win lulz.
Its getting a bit annoying people not being critical of MC's decision making. So what if he got allin-ed, if hes the better player he should be using safe builds. Not trying to get away with stuff that puts him, miles ahead if it works or dead on the spot to a bit of pressure.
MC's build was ridiculous, He tried to get out units, expand and tech all at once. Also MC is the person i'm least sympathetic about loosing to an allins. Given the frequency in which he all-ins.
If Mc thinks hes as good has he presents him self to be. He needs to buy safety in the early game, so he can do his thing in the mid game. The builds he's going are something less confident should seemingly do to get an edge, not elite players.
Seriously. "All in" or not, the point here is the fun showmanship. For some viewers, they may consider it immature but I, personally, enjoy a little "brush back" pitch or celebration. I think players should have personality - this creates a narrative for even casual fans to enjoy.
On May 19 2011 00:10 stangstang wrote: it was a well thought out attack.
Sniping the first stalker to keep mc in the dark. Stealing gas to lower the sentry count on a wide ramp.
I'm sure he planned that the stalker would get killed that quickly before his attack...
Regardless, I have encountered tons of people lately who don't understand the definition of an all in. Just because you can bank enough minerals to throw up an additional base doesn't mean someone isn't all in. Had his push not done any damage he would have been incredibly behind. It doesn't just go for this certain situation, but there are many different ways I have heard people talk about all ins lately, and I think the stem of it is Losira's roach/ling timing when he throws up the third base as he does it, even though it's an all-in(esque) push
On May 19 2011 04:11 awwnuts07 wrote: Personally, I love seeing the rivalries. But I don't think they take it far enough. I feel Starcraft needs to go in the direction of the NBA. Mad smack talk coupled with players fighting tooth and nail to dominate each other.
There's a difference between NBA players' mentality and Starcraft players. There's also a difference in fans and general target audience. I can't see why would anyone interested in that kind of shit watch Starcraft out of all other sports that are much more likely to have players and fans with such an attitude.
Personally I'd rather they don't take it much "further" than this in Starcraft.
Man DRG is looking like such a beast. He might be the zerg version of Bomber.
I am really glad especially since he is zerg. Anything to make all the zerg fanboys here QQ less (if it matters I play random, non competitively and I enjoy watching all 3 races play) especially with Protoss being highly unrepresented and not posting results recently. It's a good time to read threads on TL. No headaches from all the complaining!!
I love the BM back and forth too. MC finally let his cockiness get the best of him (though it's arguably not the first time). Hahaha. The GSTL is always amazing.
I have absolutely no problem with the celebrations, they are fricken awesome. They only add to the entertainment of the GSTL. It's good to see the normally manner Koreans shake it up. I want more of TOP's nunchuks though.
On May 19 2011 05:51 Durn wrote: I have absolutely no problem with the celebrations, they are fricken awesome. They only add to the entertainment of the GSTL. It's good to see the normally manner Koreans shake it up. I want more of TOP's nunchuks though.
These celebrations existed in BW as well, they were part of the ceremony. It's just to put on a show, it's not a display of some bad manner, disrespect or hate for the opponent (which is what a lot of people here takes them for).
EPT
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