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n0ise
3452 Posts
1. Blizzard won't make this change 2. People are already used to playing in this manner - > there is already a skill differential between people, consisting in how effective/fast/accurate they perform splits. This aspect is quite beneficial to the game, IMO. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On May 17 2011 12:02 Superiorwolf wrote: 1. Very aesthetically pleasing 2. Makes the game much more fun, as AOE will once again become buffed in order to compensate 3. Battles last longer 4. Melee units no longer are useless vs ranged units 5. You will more often (as in BW) see many battles around the map simultaneously, creates for a more effective spectator experience The one legitimate worry I think that someone posted is that moving up ramps will again be very annoying, but I think with SC2 engine it will not be so difficult as it was in Broodwar. I would love to see this change implemented for HotS. I agree with every point here. I also think moving up ramps will be fine since the engine will most likely compensate for it and the AI isn't extremely silly. Hopefully blizzard look at this. | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
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LaiShin
Australia978 Posts
On May 22 2011 21:21 Vei wrote: imagine instead of having to split your marines you just had to press a button that made them split like the second image obviously baneling splash will be increased to compensate | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 22 2011 21:21 Vei wrote: imagine instead of having to split your marines you just had to press a button that made them split like the second image Imagine instead of marines killing an absurd amount of lings, if you could catch marines off guard and kill three times as many marines. Imagine if making banelings didn't mean eating up more gas than 10,000 SUV's. | ||
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WinterNightz
United States111 Posts
making map terrain actually matter. When I first started watching the Day9Dailies, I remember Sean going into some hardcore analysis regarding the double bridges at Destination. Now, this was shortly after learning that it's bad to queue units, so I was crazy noob when I watched these early dailies. But watching a game where some seemingly arbitrary terrain feature becomes such a ridiculously important point surrounding practically every offensive movement. As it currently stands, you can jam just about any amount of units (not counting the thor) through any "constricting" SC2 terrain just about as fast as you would in an open field. The only things that can actually slow down an SC2 army is force fields and fungal growths. But small paths that would make a batallion of BW tanks and infantry take ages to move through provide absolutely no hindrance because everything moves so damned nimbly that terrain doesn't really matter much anymore. It seems like right now, the only thing that matters are constricted areas that leave one army unable to spread into a concave. But if you look at something like Peaks of Baekdu and compare it to Crossfire SE, you look at the Baekdu ramps and say, "damn, it's going to take a serious amount of time to funnel all my dragoons/tanks/hydras/whatever through those ramps. I better not get caught off guard". On Crossfire, you see the ramps and say, "well, it's just a hop skip and a jump back home no matter where I decide to siege up, ramps aren't going to hinder my movement!". This probably isn't very well-worded, but I haven't slept yet and it's 6 in the morning. I just keep on getting so depressed when I see new maps try cool new terrain features that would be an incredibly important focal point in a BW match. In SC2, though, they barely ever have the monstrous effects that they otherwise could. EDIT: I completely forgot! Is there an actual mod that people have made to play like this? I've seen the "No Deathball" map before, but I would love to play some custom games with this sort of mechanic to be able to actually try it out. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Better asthetically, adds more micro into the game. What exactly is the negative point to it? I mean sure it messes with balance, but the expansion was going to anyway. | ||
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Rococo
United States331 Posts
On May 22 2011 21:09 n0ise wrote:1. Blizzard won't make this change Blizzard says they want SC2 to be a major e-sport, presumably one that succeeds BW in Korea and brings e-sports to a wide global audience. If they really do want that, I think there's a chance they might. People are already used to playing in this manner - > there is already a skill differential between people, consisting in how effective/fast/accurate they perform splits. This aspect is quite beneficial to the game, IMO. The need to spread units apart quickly to mitigate AoE damage isn't some kind of innovation of SC2. It's a standard part of unit control that will always be present so long as there are AoE attacks. Units would still clump through chokes and while attacking, and players would still need to split them up in response to banelings and so forth. (It's a question of balance whether banelings would still necessitate a splitting response.) | ||
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Jukebox Joe
United Kingdom358 Posts
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dranko
Sweden378 Posts
Wouldn't the units just clump up again once battle starts? With every unit trying to get into range and whatnot? | ||
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nShade
Bulgaria296 Posts
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fnurk
Sweden2 Posts
Wouldn't the units just clump up again once battle starts? With every unit trying to get into range and whatnot? I think so too, because if that doesn't happen the battles will be like 4 marines shooting at 4 marines, if in a choke... How does a change like this add micro? Slowing down battles makes it easier to micro right? They would have to change the game to a very great extent and since there are players like me, who have no experience in BW, it would be like learning a new game. | ||
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alepov
Netherlands1132 Posts
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On May 29 2011 21:58 alepov wrote: interesting OP =) one specific question, how would you make banelings useful again if this was implemented? the same way storms, fungal growth, tanks, archons, seeker missile and colossi would be made useful again. all AoE effects in the entire game would be heavily buffed to have their radius be a lot bigger. result: AoE is more dangerous in highly clumped up situations. (this is a good thing, this would make spectating battles much more exciting) AoE works just the same as always (perhaps slightly nerfed) in other situations. On May 29 2011 21:50 fnurk wrote: I think so too, because if that doesn't happen the battles will be like 4 marines shooting at 4 marines, if in a choke... How does a change like this add micro? Slowing down battles makes it easier to micro right? They would have to change the game to a very great extent and since there are players like me, who have no experience in BW, it would be like learning a new game. because of the buffed splash explained earlier, you would need to micro against it to reduce its effectiveness. also, those that do not have a background of broodwar may not find this intuitive but: if you have a massive army, terrain actually matters. movement through a choke would no longer take 2-4 seconds, it would take 15-20 seconds (this is not an overestimate). now imagine if the entirety of the opponents army gets to fight a trickle of your army, the result would be devestating. the aspect of fighting on the move would be extremely changed, tanks with good position would have their effectiveness at least tripled, drops and nydus worms would become relevant factors since they let you ignore terrain, fungal growth and forcefields would be able to easily constrict movement even in seemingly open terrain, battles would look much more epic since the visual size of armies would be tripled or quadroupled, a storm on one spot on the opponent could very well deal many times the damage that it would on another spot, the opponent would actually have to attempt to dodge these more powerful storms, ultralisks would no longer look ridicolously big and would be a much smaller issue regarding AI and A-moved blobs would become much weaker since the "tail" of the army would arrive much much later than the "head", effectively cutting DPS by A LOT! some things listed above would be purely aestethical, but most of them would be factors that introduced some kind of new micro. | ||
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TheQforce
United Kingdom48 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Its probably just a matter of taste, right now melee units are super strong and aoe units are super weak. Changing that up would change effectifly nothing, except more luck involved. I prefer prolonged battles due to good micro, rather then rolling some w20 on how effectif the aoe units hit. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
It is neat idea, but something more tangible than a petition will actually be needed if you really want to get this added into the game. | ||
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Rococo
United States331 Posts
On May 29 2011 22:57 Dommk wrote: You could make a petition to add the Gingerbread man to this game---but that doesn't make it a good idea. Just like how petitions are terrible for balance, this is no different. I'm a little confused by this analogy. You don't conduct a petition to make something a good idea, you do it because you think it's already a good idea and want it to be heard. The strength of the argument being promoted is what makes the petition compelling or not. As for what more could be done, I think a Youtube video comparing battles in SC2 with battles in Brood War could be very persuasive, particularly if it got a lot of views and thumbs ups. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
I think best of all, is that it changes the battle dynamic completely. Instead of every unit firing at every other unit, we might start to see wave after wave of units coming in sequence. Instead of battles ending in seconds, we can have drawn out conflicts. What this does is add a lot for intensity and suspense to the actual fight, but more importantly it allows armies to withdraw without losing as much. This'll make way for more epic games and less one sided steamrolls that is characteristic of SC2. The cons is that it will upset balance. So, I think the best way to address that is to wait for the inevitable upset in balance (Heart of the Swarm). That'd be the perfect opportunity to make big changes for the better. | ||
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NightHawk929
79 Posts
I know for a fact blizzard won't put this in though. | ||
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