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On October 25 2012 08:13 EtohEtoh wrote:
What ITG is saying (though they said it in probably the most unproffesional way possible), is that they agree with Destiny, they just add something on to what Destiny is saying. It goes like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> If Blizzard doesn't fix SC2, what can the community do to keep SC2 alive?
It's simply adding another step, Incontrol assumes that Blizzard aren't going to fix SC2 (because they haven't over the last two years), and, since as a community we can take action, we should, and we should find ways of expanding the game ourselves as audience and organizers, and not leave it up to Blizzard.
What's funny is that Destiny said he wasn't part of Catz's initiative, which would go like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> Let's make sure Blizzard know how to fix SC2,
(also a valid plan of action, dunno why Geoff was being such a dick about this one, it's quite possible that Blizzard devs were disconnected from what would grow SC2 in the long run)
Destiny is somehow stuck at the 2nd step and he's resigned himself to doom-saying, which is probably the worst plan of action out of all these. (Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> QQ), "I don't think the situation is savable, I think it's fucked completely"
But... but... complaining about Blizzard because your stream numbers are down is so much easier than creating actual content like tournaments, youtube videos, podcasts, etc.
Seriously, I don't understand why Destiny and his legion of fanboys don't get that IdrA, Geoff, and Wheat were agreeing with him on all the Blizzard stuff. They would rather just spend their energy on things they know will help sc2, rather than waiting around on Blizzard. The most successful people in all of SC2 don't sit around all day complaining about the game, they go out and make it better.
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All I have to say is that GIF from Anchorman where Will Ferrell says, "Well that escalated quickly.." fits the show last night very well.
It got really ugly the way Incontrol and Destiny were fighting. Destiny probably left like that because Incontrol and Idra high fived on stream. That was...kind of douchey? I don't know no one was acting like themselves and it was pretty repulsing. Honestly Incontrol and Destiny always seemed friendly with eachother until this happened. I'm not sure why it got so heated but it was sad to say the least.
As someone who likes both of these guys it kind of made me sad. I really think they should sit down and talk again when everyone isn't so agitated/heated like last night.
Sorry it ended that way.
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wow wheat being a bitch about this topic in LO3. thats sad.
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On October 25 2012 08:23 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:13 EtohEtoh wrote:
What ITG is saying (though they said it in probably the most unproffesional way possible), is that they agree with Destiny, they just add something on to what Destiny is saying. It goes like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> If Blizzard doesn't fix SC2, what can the community do to keep SC2 alive?
It's simply adding another step, Incontrol assumes that Blizzard aren't going to fix SC2 (because they haven't over the last two years), and, since as a community we can take action, we should, and we should find ways of expanding the game ourselves as audience and organizers, and not leave it up to Blizzard.
What's funny is that Destiny said he wasn't part of Catz's initiative, which would go like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> Let's make sure Blizzard know how to fix SC2,
(also a valid plan of action, dunno why Geoff was being such a dick about this one, it's quite possible that Blizzard devs were disconnected from what would grow SC2 in the long run)
Destiny is somehow stuck at the 2nd step and he's resigned himself to doom-saying, which is probably the worst plan of action out of all these. (Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> QQ), "I don't think the situation is savable, I think it's fucked completely"
But... but... complaining about Blizzard because your stream numbers are down is so much easier than creating actual content like tournaments, youtube videos, podcasts, etc. Seriously, I don't understand why Destiny and his legion of fanboys don't get that IdrA, Geoff, and Wheat were agreeing with him on all the Blizzard stuff. They would rather just spend their energy on things they know will help sc2, rather than waiting around on Blizzard. The most successful people in all of SC2 don't sit around all day complaining about the game, they go out and make it better.
The problem is what will help Starcraft 2 w.o Blizzard? What can we do? IdrA/Incontrol haven't put a single idea out there.
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On October 25 2012 08:36 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:23 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 25 2012 08:13 EtohEtoh wrote:
What ITG is saying (though they said it in probably the most unproffesional way possible), is that they agree with Destiny, they just add something on to what Destiny is saying. It goes like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> If Blizzard doesn't fix SC2, what can the community do to keep SC2 alive?
It's simply adding another step, Incontrol assumes that Blizzard aren't going to fix SC2 (because they haven't over the last two years), and, since as a community we can take action, we should, and we should find ways of expanding the game ourselves as audience and organizers, and not leave it up to Blizzard.
What's funny is that Destiny said he wasn't part of Catz's initiative, which would go like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> Let's make sure Blizzard know how to fix SC2,
(also a valid plan of action, dunno why Geoff was being such a dick about this one, it's quite possible that Blizzard devs were disconnected from what would grow SC2 in the long run)
Destiny is somehow stuck at the 2nd step and he's resigned himself to doom-saying, which is probably the worst plan of action out of all these. (Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> QQ), "I don't think the situation is savable, I think it's fucked completely"
But... but... complaining about Blizzard because your stream numbers are down is so much easier than creating actual content like tournaments, youtube videos, podcasts, etc. Seriously, I don't understand why Destiny and his legion of fanboys don't get that IdrA, Geoff, and Wheat were agreeing with him on all the Blizzard stuff. They would rather just spend their energy on things they know will help sc2, rather than waiting around on Blizzard. The most successful people in all of SC2 don't sit around all day complaining about the game, they go out and make it better. The problem is what will help Starcraft 2 w.o Blizzard? What can we do? IdrA/Incontrol haven't put a single idea out there.
Blizz weren't there for BW, but they made it work. I am not saying I have ideas, but in BW they did not rely on Blizz really AT ALL and got it done.
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On October 25 2012 08:36 CEPEHDREI wrote:
wow wheat being a bitch about this topic in LO3. thats sad.
You're surprised? Wheat IS a bitch.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 25 2012 08:39 TheAmazombie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:36 Pwnographics wrote:On October 25 2012 08:23 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 25 2012 08:13 EtohEtoh wrote:
What ITG is saying (though they said it in probably the most unproffesional way possible), is that they agree with Destiny, they just add something on to what Destiny is saying. It goes like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> If Blizzard doesn't fix SC2, what can the community do to keep SC2 alive?
It's simply adding another step, Incontrol assumes that Blizzard aren't going to fix SC2 (because they haven't over the last two years), and, since as a community we can take action, we should, and we should find ways of expanding the game ourselves as audience and organizers, and not leave it up to Blizzard.
What's funny is that Destiny said he wasn't part of Catz's initiative, which would go like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> Let's make sure Blizzard know how to fix SC2,
(also a valid plan of action, dunno why Geoff was being such a dick about this one, it's quite possible that Blizzard devs were disconnected from what would grow SC2 in the long run)
Destiny is somehow stuck at the 2nd step and he's resigned himself to doom-saying, which is probably the worst plan of action out of all these. (Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> QQ), "I don't think the situation is savable, I think it's fucked completely"
But... but... complaining about Blizzard because your stream numbers are down is so much easier than creating actual content like tournaments, youtube videos, podcasts, etc. Seriously, I don't understand why Destiny and his legion of fanboys don't get that IdrA, Geoff, and Wheat were agreeing with him on all the Blizzard stuff. They would rather just spend their energy on things they know will help sc2, rather than waiting around on Blizzard. The most successful people in all of SC2 don't sit around all day complaining about the game, they go out and make it better. The problem is what will help Starcraft 2 w.o Blizzard? What can we do? IdrA/Incontrol haven't put a single idea out there. Blizz weren't there for BW, but they made it work. I am not saying I have ideas, but in BW they did not rely on Blizz really AT ALL and got it done.
Because the UI didn't suck shit and the game didn't suck shit and there was no competition.
But now the UI does suck shit and the game sucks shit (PvP/ZvP/TvZ/ZvZ) and there is plenty o competition.
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On October 25 2012 08:39 TheAmazombie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:36 Pwnographics wrote:On October 25 2012 08:23 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 25 2012 08:13 EtohEtoh wrote:
What ITG is saying (though they said it in probably the most unproffesional way possible), is that they agree with Destiny, they just add something on to what Destiny is saying. It goes like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> If Blizzard doesn't fix SC2, what can the community do to keep SC2 alive?
It's simply adding another step, Incontrol assumes that Blizzard aren't going to fix SC2 (because they haven't over the last two years), and, since as a community we can take action, we should, and we should find ways of expanding the game ourselves as audience and organizers, and not leave it up to Blizzard.
What's funny is that Destiny said he wasn't part of Catz's initiative, which would go like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> Let's make sure Blizzard know how to fix SC2,
(also a valid plan of action, dunno why Geoff was being such a dick about this one, it's quite possible that Blizzard devs were disconnected from what would grow SC2 in the long run)
Destiny is somehow stuck at the 2nd step and he's resigned himself to doom-saying, which is probably the worst plan of action out of all these. (Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> QQ), "I don't think the situation is savable, I think it's fucked completely"
But... but... complaining about Blizzard because your stream numbers are down is so much easier than creating actual content like tournaments, youtube videos, podcasts, etc. Seriously, I don't understand why Destiny and his legion of fanboys don't get that IdrA, Geoff, and Wheat were agreeing with him on all the Blizzard stuff. They would rather just spend their energy on things they know will help sc2, rather than waiting around on Blizzard. The most successful people in all of SC2 don't sit around all day complaining about the game, they go out and make it better. The problem is what will help Starcraft 2 w.o Blizzard? What can we do? IdrA/Incontrol haven't put a single idea out there. Blizz weren't there for BW, but they made it work. I am not saying I have ideas, but in BW they did not rely on Blizz really AT ALL and got it done.
Exactly. People don't seem to know that BW wasn't even really a competitive game on its own. It wasn't even balanced. BW became a huge esport in Korea because of the people, mapmakers, players, teams, companies, and organizations outside of Korea. Blizzard provided the game and somewhat balanced units.
And the EG guys don't have any ideas? They go on and on about how to improve tournaments, all the things teams should be doing to attract sponsors, they do shows like ITG, they produce content. Those are all things that help improve pro SC2.
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I am utterly flabbergasted that people are criticizing Idra, incontrol, and especially Wheat for this. Not only were they far more reasonable and patient than Destiny while he was yelling at them from the second he came on the line, they were also being comedic and not malicious in their spirited responses. Wheat goes on rage filled rants at people all the time and all of the sudden people are so surprised. Guys OneMoreGame.tv isn't CNN.
Oh and PainUser was constantly butting in with stuff that was off topic which just confused matters and is being praised for it.
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On October 25 2012 08:36 CEPEHDREI wrote:
wow wheat being a bitch about this topic in LO3. thats sad.
How is Wheat being a bitch?
Jesus, at this point people are just looking for reasons to hate him. Yes he didn't react right at inside the game, but this guy did more for eSports than pretty much everybody else in the US, give him a break.
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Blizzard managed to have a relatively buggy game that had a beautiful, yet accidental mix of intricacies to it in BW. It worked out and was greater than the sum of its parts. SC 2 is the opposite, the developers are too stubborn and controlling and unwilling to compromise on huge issues. They would rather twist a bunch of integers around and call it good while not budging much on anything that isn't a complete disaster (warhound). They buffed detection through the roof just to get their pet project, the widowmine to not be as OP. I just feel like they acknowledge problems with their game almost begrudgingly, and huge systemic issues like unit movement and map issues due to forcefields get dismissed with an irritated tone.
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Watched the entire thing, and it was dumb as hell. I liked Destiny's zinger before he left, though. When you're not able to have a real conversation and you're in front of a big audience, you may as well say something hilarious.
sC and seleCt both quit SC2 for MOBAs today, by the way...but Destiny is wrong because jimmy's sandwich shop gets a different level of sponsorship
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On October 25 2012 08:36 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:23 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 25 2012 08:13 EtohEtoh wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=6904&topic_id=218946#What ITG is saying (though they said it in probably the most unproffesional way possible), is that they agree with Destiny, they just add something on to what Destiny is saying. It goes like this: Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> If Blizzard doesn't fix SC2, what can the community do to keep SC2 alive? It's simply adding another step, Incontrol assumes that Blizzard aren't going to fix SC2 (because they haven't over the last two years), and, since as a community we can take action, we should, and we should find ways of expanding the game ourselves as audience and organizers, and not leave it up to Blizzard. What's funny is that Destiny said he wasn't part of Catz's initiative, which would go like this: Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> Let's make sure Blizzard know how to fix SC2, (also a valid plan of action, dunno why Geoff was being such a dick about this one, it's quite possible that Blizzard devs were disconnected from what would grow SC2 in the long run) Destiny is somehow stuck at the 2nd step and he's resigned himself to doom-saying, which is probably the worst plan of action out of all these. (Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> QQ), "I don't think the situation is savable, I think it's fucked completely" But... but... complaining about Blizzard because your stream numbers are down is so much easier than creating actual content like tournaments, youtube videos, podcasts, etc. Seriously, I don't understand why Destiny and his legion of fanboys don't get that IdrA, Geoff, and Wheat were agreeing with him on all the Blizzard stuff. They would rather just spend their energy on things they know will help sc2, rather than waiting around on Blizzard. The most successful people in all of SC2 don't sit around all day complaining about the game, they go out and make it better. The problem is what will help Starcraft 2 w.o Blizzard? What can we do? IdrA/Incontrol haven't put a single idea out there.
Keep doing stuff. Keep streaming, keep making content. Idra can't change the UI, and Geoff can't add clan functionality. What they can do is put the game out there in its best possible light. What they do helps their brand but it also indirectly helps Blizzard. The more you can do to put the game out there in a positive light, the higher the chance that people will play it. Some people have more power to do that than others. Tournaments and organizers can cast a pretty awesome spotlight. TI and TI2 were awesome examples of that. Popular streamers can do that. Everyone can through word of mouth.
And there are solid, concrete problems with the game that individuals have addressed. The maps sucked, and then we had Tal'Darim Altar, and it was amazing for its time, and then we had Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom and Ohana and, you know, however you feel about Atlantis Spacebear or Metropolis, the current map pool is way better than what we started with. That's down to community figures and people working hard to change the situation. Something was bad, attention was drawn to it, people created viable alternatives, and now we have a majority of non-Blizzard created maps on the ladder. Some people didn't like the colors, and an amazing guy created a mod that changed them. That's the kind of shit we can and should do.
The problem is people choosing to take the approach Destiny was advocating. Something's bad, fuck it, blow it up and demand someone solve your problems. Yes, there are things only Blizzard can do. But there are also things we can do as a community.
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Its funny to me really, people are upset that "Sc2 is dying" but rather take the frustrations out on blizzard forums and yelling at blizzard, they would much rather waste time creating drama and hate post to people in the community. I wonder what would happen if the sc2 somehow came together instead of creating drama where there wasn't some.
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On October 25 2012 08:50 yeastiality wrote:
Watched the entire thing, and it was dumb as hell. I liked Destiny's zinger before he left, though. When you're not able to have a real conversation and you're in front of a big audience, you may as well say something hilarious.
sC and seleCt both quit SC2 for MOBAs today, by the way...but Destiny is wrong because jimmy's sandwich shop gets a different level of sponsorship
Destiny is wrong for reasons that are frankly self-evident.
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On October 25 2012 08:50 yeastiality wrote:
sC and seleCt both quit SC2 for MOBAs today, by the way...but Destiny is wrong because jimmy's sandwich shop gets a different level of sponsorship
If Jimmy's sandwich shop is profitable and stable, who cares if Subway sells a billion more sandwiches than him? This is how business works. Nobody goes on MLB's website and freaks the fuck out because more people watch the NFL.
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On October 25 2012 08:47 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:39 TheAmazombie wrote:On October 25 2012 08:36 Pwnographics wrote:On October 25 2012 08:23 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 25 2012 08:13 EtohEtoh wrote:
What ITG is saying (though they said it in probably the most unproffesional way possible), is that they agree with Destiny, they just add something on to what Destiny is saying. It goes like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> If Blizzard doesn't fix SC2, what can the community do to keep SC2 alive?
It's simply adding another step, Incontrol assumes that Blizzard aren't going to fix SC2 (because they haven't over the last two years), and, since as a community we can take action, we should, and we should find ways of expanding the game ourselves as audience and organizers, and not leave it up to Blizzard.
What's funny is that Destiny said he wasn't part of Catz's initiative, which would go like this:
Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> Let's make sure Blizzard know how to fix SC2,
(also a valid plan of action, dunno why Geoff was being such a dick about this one, it's quite possible that Blizzard devs were disconnected from what would grow SC2 in the long run)
Destiny is somehow stuck at the 2nd step and he's resigned himself to doom-saying, which is probably the worst plan of action out of all these. (Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> QQ), "I don't think the situation is savable, I think it's fucked completely"
But... but... complaining about Blizzard because your stream numbers are down is so much easier than creating actual content like tournaments, youtube videos, podcasts, etc. Seriously, I don't understand why Destiny and his legion of fanboys don't get that IdrA, Geoff, and Wheat were agreeing with him on all the Blizzard stuff. They would rather just spend their energy on things they know will help sc2, rather than waiting around on Blizzard. The most successful people in all of SC2 don't sit around all day complaining about the game, they go out and make it better. The problem is what will help Starcraft 2 w.o Blizzard? What can we do? IdrA/Incontrol haven't put a single idea out there. Blizz weren't there for BW, but they made it work. I am not saying I have ideas, but in BW they did not rely on Blizz really AT ALL and got it done. Exactly. People don't seem to know that BW wasn't even really a competitive game on its own. It wasn't even balanced. BW became a huge esport in Korea because of the people, mapmakers, players, teams, companies, and organizations outside of Korea. Blizzard provided the game and somewhat balanced units. And the EG guys don't have any ideas? They go on and on about how to improve tournaments, all the things teams should be doing to attract sponsors, they do shows like ITG, they produce content. Those are all things that help improve pro SC2.
Wtf? Broodwar was balanced, all the imbalanced shit balanced out and best of all it was actually fun to watch. I would watch multiple skirmishes at 80-120/200 food players battle it out. Not wait 25 minutes for 2 players to hit 200/200 and collide heads.
They try attract sponsors... Mate, when SCII stream has 50K viewers and LoL has 1million I don't think sponsors are going to give two shits about what great content or community SCII has...
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On October 25 2012 08:52 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:36 Pwnographics wrote:On October 25 2012 08:23 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 25 2012 08:13 EtohEtoh wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=6904&topic_id=218946#What ITG is saying (though they said it in probably the most unproffesional way possible), is that they agree with Destiny, they just add something on to what Destiny is saying. It goes like this: Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> If Blizzard doesn't fix SC2, what can the community do to keep SC2 alive? It's simply adding another step, Incontrol assumes that Blizzard aren't going to fix SC2 (because they haven't over the last two years), and, since as a community we can take action, we should, and we should find ways of expanding the game ourselves as audience and organizers, and not leave it up to Blizzard. What's funny is that Destiny said he wasn't part of Catz's initiative, which would go like this: Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> Let's make sure Blizzard know how to fix SC2, (also a valid plan of action, dunno why Geoff was being such a dick about this one, it's quite possible that Blizzard devs were disconnected from what would grow SC2 in the long run) Destiny is somehow stuck at the 2nd step and he's resigned himself to doom-saying, which is probably the worst plan of action out of all these. (Blizzard messed up SC2 ------> Blizzard should fix SC2 -----> QQ), "I don't think the situation is savable, I think it's fucked completely" But... but... complaining about Blizzard because your stream numbers are down is so much easier than creating actual content like tournaments, youtube videos, podcasts, etc. Seriously, I don't understand why Destiny and his legion of fanboys don't get that IdrA, Geoff, and Wheat were agreeing with him on all the Blizzard stuff. They would rather just spend their energy on things they know will help sc2, rather than waiting around on Blizzard. The most successful people in all of SC2 don't sit around all day complaining about the game, they go out and make it better. The problem is what will help Starcraft 2 w.o Blizzard? What can we do? IdrA/Incontrol haven't put a single idea out there. The problem is people choosing to take the approach Destiny was advocating. Something's bad, fuck it, blow it up and demand someone solve your problems. Yes, there are things only Blizzard can do. But there are also things we can do as a community.
nothing "the community" does ever matters
self-congratulatory garbage isn't where LoL's viewer numbers come from
On October 25 2012 08:53 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:50 yeastiality wrote:
sC and seleCt both quit SC2 for MOBAs today, by the way...but Destiny is wrong because jimmy's sandwich shop gets a different level of sponsorship If Jimmy's sandwich shop is profitable and stable, who cares if Subway sells a billion more sandwiches than him? This is how business works. Nobody goes on MLB's website and freaks the fuck out because more people watch the NFL.
I think the point is that people who are supposed to be "important community figures" and "involved in SC2 professionally" shouldn't be happy to settle for being in 5th place or whatever it is. It was very obvious from the show that Idra and Incontrol have 'given up' in a sense, and they're complacent with how their lives are panning out right now (read: get paid a lot to accomplish nothing in the realm of competition, and wax poetic about all their cool business knowledge for 3 hours a week).
Don't pretend you know 'how business works' either. Idra doesn't, Incontrol doesn't, Destiny doesn't, DJWheat doesn't. They're gamers who have an audience, but in terms of "knowing stuff" they're still just gamers.
If you want to see how business works, start tallying up how many people leave SC2 to play other games. Note which games they switch to. You might discover a shocking trend!
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Sorry for the retarded question, but can anyone link me to where I can watch or listen to this. Tried googling it (Inside the Game) but their website doesn't seem to have been updated in quite some time... ty
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On October 25 2012 08:53 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:50 yeastiality wrote:
sC and seleCt both quit SC2 for MOBAs today, by the way...but Destiny is wrong because jimmy's sandwich shop gets a different level of sponsorship If Jimmy's sandwich shop is profitable and stable, who cares if Subway sells a billion more sandwiches than him? This is how business works. Nobody goes on MLB's website and freaks the fuck out because more people watch the NFL.
Except the MLB has a foundation and history that makes it incredibly hard to freak out about. It's a stable product that has been around for a century. It's completely different than SC 2 and much more organized, profitable and embedded in multiple cultures.
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EPT
