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Serpico
4285 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:36 scatmango2 wrote: I get the feeling Idra ragequit the Skype call in order to dodge the Trimaster question. I get the feeling you're making something out of absolutely nothing  | ||
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FreudianTrip
Switzerland1983 Posts
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UserErrOr413
United States178 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
Kinda disappointed that they talk about stuff without even having made some basic research, I mean its not terrible but DjWheat should at least have some notes prepared so he can clear some of those misconceptions.(talking about the cancel stuff) | ||
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HallBregg
134 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:36 scatmango2 wrote: I get the feeling Idra ragequit the Skype call in order to dodge the Trimaster question. haha, I can't help to feel the same way. Also it was realy wierd, that he just didn't use Inc mic. | ||
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walklightwhat
Australia752 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:41 HallBregg wrote: haha, I can't help to feel the same way. Also it was realy wierd, that he just didn't use Inc mic. Yeah, I'm sure he also caused the cameras to freeze and Painuser to get booted from the same call as well. Pretty impressive, really. Thanks for another show guys. | ||
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Kh0nsu
United Kingdom183 Posts
Every week it gets better and with a touch more preparation, this show could be perfect But daayyumm I want one of those changeling wing plates... | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:45 walklightwhat wrote: Yeah, I'm sure he also caused the cameras to freeze and Painuser to get booted from the same call as well. Pretty impressive, really. Thanks for another show guys. Apparently idra rage is THAT powerful. Also LOL @ both idra and incontrol saying they prepared a lot and Puser just like ¨nah, I just played like I do normally¨ | ||
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Holykitty
Netherlands246 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:41 windsupernova wrote: I kinda liked the notion of Hellions getting an HP nerf. Kinda disappointed that they talk about stuff without even having made some basic research, I mean its not terrible but DjWheat should at least have some notes prepared so he can clear some of those misconceptions.(talking about the cancel stuff) the problem with a hp nerf is that its easy to get into a situation where helions just cant do any fighting because they just die, but harras / slow lings is still a cake walk because its 1 sided damage. this would make them just another 'hard counter unit' that people hate, they would just hard counter workers. if we are set on a change, the change (imo) should be to their speed and to their damage OR the removal of +light bonus all together, depending on how blizzard want them to function. they dont need bonus damage vs light and blue flame could be +5 vs all. i feel the whole +damage design is a lazy way to make a unit good or bad vs another. look at the roach vs marine dynamic. the balance of power swings back and forth between the units based on upgrades throughout the game and neither of them deals bonus damage, its just a lazy mechanic for blizzard brute forcing a unit match up to work how they want without a good unit design helions can be an effective worker killer, without dealing absurd amounts of damage to light units. being fast and cheap makes them good harras, +light makes them easy to use. removing their +vs light would make them less rewarding, more in line with their low risk. rather than increasing their risk and keeping the reward. this approach seems to REINFORCE the hated 'instant death' the casters complained about. with a lower reward, dropping is still a favourable thing that encourages better player, but it wont end the game in 5 seconds. if helions dealt more sustained damage they could be used in head to head fights outside killing each other (idra loves to point out that hydras are so bad they can only kill zerg units) helions are pretty bad outside of terran units. | ||
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Officedrone
Canada70 Posts
If IdrA wants to actually perform well now, he seriously needs to set his ego aside for a moment and look critically at what he's doing wrong. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:58 Holykitty wrote: the problem with a hp nerf is that its easy to get into a situation where helions just cant do any fighting because they just die, but harras / slow lings is still a cake walk because its 1 sided damage. this would make them just another 'hard counter unit' that people hate, they would just hard counter workers. if we are set on a change, the change (imo) should be to their speed and to their damage OR the removal of +light bonus all together, depending on how blizzard want them to function. they dont need bonus damage vs light and blue flame could be +5 vs all. i feel the whole +damage design is a lazy way to make a unit good or bad vs another. look at the roach vs marine dynamic. the balance of power swings back and forth between the units based on upgrades throughout the game and neither of them deals bonus damage, its just a lazy mechanic for blizzard brute forcing a unit match up to work how they want without a good unit design helions can be an effective worker killer, without dealing absurd amounts of damage to light units. being fast and cheap makes them good harras, +light makes them easy to use. removing their +vs light would make them less rewarding, more in line with their low risk. rather than increasing their risk and keeping the reward. this approach seems to REINFORCE the hated 'instant death' the casters complained about. with a lower reward, dropping is still a favourable thing that encourages better player, but it wont end the game in 5 seconds. if helions dealt more sustained damage they could be used in head to head fights outside killing each other (idra loves to point out that hydras are so bad they can only kill zerg units) helions are pretty bad outside of terran units. That bonus damage mechanic has existed in a lot of RTSs, even in BW you had different damage types... The HP nerf is something I like as far as non mirror matchups go, as incontrol said Stalkers kill them to slowly so Hellions can herp derp into your base, same thing happens with Roaches vs BFH. As far as direct combat goes, Hellions have always been pretty horrible as far as in A move vs stuff. You really need to micro them back to use their full potential. I am not even talking about making it a 10 hp glass cannon but for how effective and fast they are they could use some frailty. Hellions and hydras are not really as bad as people make them out to be,. And to be honest the instant death stuff that they complained about its not really that bad and its still getting nerfed anyways so no point in discussing it anyways. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
BUT! If they had a speed upgrade, it would delay the potency of blueflame hellions while still keeping the blueflame upgrade very significant. It would also make blueflame hellions more of a commitment by the terran player. | ||
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:14 Sapphire.lux wrote: I just did. Game design. Reread my post. I agree with this, while I think blue flame hellions need a nerf, they should not cost gas. Mech would be screwed over since hellions is where all the minerals go. | ||
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Kuhva
United Kingdom183 Posts
On August 31 2011 08:39 itsTheSituatioN wrote: painuser so nab. 5bunkers vs immortals? please. marauders with stim are pretty damn good vs immortals already Marauders are currently only any good against immortals cause the can outrange them so can easily kite the shit against them. With equal range this won't be the case. It also worth noting immortals aren't armoured. They are just mechanical. Therefore Stim Marines would do equal, if not more DPS to the immortal as a Marauder would. They are also just as cost effective taking 3 shots to kill the same as a marauder (2 if stimmed without combat shield, a marauder would have 5 life left after 2 shot and a stim). Ofc quite as simple as that as the immortals would be backed by Gateway units. | ||
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Lordwar
Finland243 Posts
On August 31 2011 22:34 Kuhva wrote: Marauders are currently only any good against immortals cause the can outrange them so can easily kite the shit against them. With equal range this won't be the case. It also worth noting immortals aren't armoured. They are just mechanical. Therefore Stim Marines would do equal, if not more DPS to the immortal as a Marauder would. They are also just as cost effective taking 3 shots to kill the same as a marauder (2 if stimmed without combat shield, a marauder would have 5 life left after 2 shot and a stim). Ofc quite as simple as that as the immortals would be backed by Gateway units. Marines are better option against immortals than marauders | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On August 31 2011 22:34 Kuhva wrote: It also worth noting immortals aren't armoured. They are just mechanical. Therefore Stim Marines would do equal, if not more DPS to the immortal as a Marauder would. They are also just as cost effective taking 3 shots to kill the same as a marauder (2 if stimmed without combat shield, a marauder would have 5 life left after 2 shot and a stim). Actually immortals are armored. This means during hardened shields they take 10 dmg per marauder shot and after the shields are down 20 dmg per shot. The big thing about the range increase is how microable immortals will become. Right now an immortal that is being focus fired cannot really escape, thanks to a shorter range, concussive shells and the usual line of stalkers/sentries behind them. After the change however, the immortals are a part of that line and the terran player can really do nothing do stop a fleeing immortal, especially if he is relying on bunkers. The protoss player can just dance those immortals back and forth and really abuse those hardened shields. A well-microed immortal bust will be ridiculously hard to stop if the change goes through. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On August 31 2011 11:28 Officedrone wrote: I like how PainUser and iNcontroL had well thought-out responses to their placement and losses and IdrA just "thinks he played well" and no introspection at all. If IdrA wants to actually perform well now, he seriously needs to set his ego aside for a moment and look critically at what he's doing wrong. Did you see his onstage interview during MLG with Day[9]? He went through every game he played and explained why he won or lost. IdrA is a great many things, but uncritical about his play he is not. In fact, the most fascinating thing to listen to with IdrA is his insight into why he lost. It may not always be right, but his analytical mind and straight-forward delivery gives pretty good insight into the pro mind. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On August 31 2011 22:41 Bagi wrote: Actually immortals are armored. This means during hardened shields they take 10 dmg per marauder shot and after the shields are down 20 dmg per shot. The big thing about the range increase is how microable immortals will become. Right now an immortal that is being focus fired cannot really escape, thanks to a shorter range, concussive shells and the usual line of stalkers/sentries behind them. After the change however, the immortals are a part of that line and the terran player can really do nothing do stop a fleeing immortal, especially if he is relying on bunkers. The protoss player can just dance those immortals back and forth and really abuse those hardened shields. A well-microed immortal bust will be ridiculously hard to stop if the change goes through. stalkers rarely get away from a marauder with slow so why would an already slower immortal get away? One range doesnt magically make the immortal retreat quickly. When you attack with immortals you are committing in the same way you are now. Unless the opponent backs away the immortal isnt going to survive. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On August 31 2011 22:47 ZeromuS wrote: stalkers rarely get away from a marauder with slow so why would an already slower immortal get away? One range doesnt magically make the immortal retreat quickly. When you attack with immortals you are committing in the same way you are now. Unless the opponent backs away the immortal isnt going to survive. This is true but only in army vs army situations or when you already have a big bioball set up. When you rely on bunkers (and you have to rely on bunkers when a toss becomes aggressive and you went FE as terran), you cant just go chasing fleeing units. You auto-repair, focus down the sentry with the guardian shield and hope its enough to kill him. If there are zealots still alive, that makes it even more difficult to chase anything. | ||
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