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CatchAFish
Finland13 Posts
On May 03 2011 19:25 Leavzou wrote: I really don't anderstand why IdrA does not want to coach... Because he could earn 150$/hour, and in my opinion it's much more than the potential money from tournaments. And it's also much more safe. There's an old saying going 'Those who can't do, teach.' | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
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snuppe
Denmark285 Posts
On May 03 2011 18:05 shadymmj wrote: You can't eat steelseries keyboards, so yes, I'd say that is a completely fair request. Has nothing to do with that.. You know as well as i do that everybody would be thrilled to get paid for being a good gamer. But i totally agree with zul! Don't destroy of bubble that will only create a lot of mess in the community. | ||
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BattRoll
100 Posts
On May 03 2011 19:50 tdt wrote: 1% here won't make over 100K? Over 1% of Americans are millionaires and I'd say SC2 players are more intelligent than norm. 100K over 20% of Americans make. Basically you're way off. Well, maybe 1% was a little drastic(maybe 5% at most), but I certainly doubt that 20% of Americans make over 100k a year. (Maybe 20% of households on combined incomes). 100k/year is a LOT of money and very few professions actually pay that amount. The real world isn't like that. Maybe if you live in a rich neighborhood it might seem this way but the reality is that most people are working to make a select few very rich, and these select few do not get rich paying people 100k/year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States According to wikipedia, roughly 16% of households make over 100k/year with 2 earners. http://www.mybudget360.com/how-much-does-the-average-american-make-breaking-down-the-us-household-income-numbers/ This goes further basically breaking down the fact that 3% of households bring in 200k+/year. So basically your 20% is actually 3% - which is much closer to my original statement. | ||
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unsaintly
Germany687 Posts
And does it really matter how much you can make? If you play for fun and become fucking good you can go for it like tyler said on state of the game and then you can make money with your hobby. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 03 2011 20:18 BattRoll wrote: Well, maybe 1% was a little drastic(maybe 5% at most), but I certainly doubt that 20% of Americans make over 100k a year. (Maybe 20% of households on combined incomes). 100k/year is a LOT of money and very few professions actually pay that amount. Yeah household income is way stat is always reported, individual, ~7% make above 100K. But more importantly around 100% do who have professional degrees which is what the poster was comparing gaming to. Not grocery baggers hair stylists construction workers or other poorly educated & low barriers to entry career paths. | ||
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BattRoll
100 Posts
In either event, I think that anybody trying to tell another person what's right or wrong for them to do with their time has some malice attached to it. | ||
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Sueco
Sweden283 Posts
If you have valuable information to add or an interesting take on the issue, please contribute. "LOL people in this thread don't know what they are talking about." Is NOT contributing to the thread. There is no reason pro players shouldn't at least give us a hint of their income. It's valuable information for people considering going into e-sports, and what are they exactly risking by giving a rough estimate of their earnings? | ||
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pHelix Equilibria
United States1134 Posts
On May 03 2011 18:41 tyCe wrote: Why is progaming so desirable anyway? That's a question that I don't really understand. I mean, I would love to be an elite professional footballer, but being an elite SC2 pro is completely different. You don't have the fame except to a bunch of fat, ugly fangirls and a bunch of nerds and casuals watching at their computers. You don't have great pay compared to other jobs you could have done (assuming that your intelligence and/or charisma is the reason for your SC2 success).. Further, your career is short and it is stressful to keep your position at the time. You have no employment prospects outside of the progaming scene after your career is done either. Furthermore, your achievements mean nothing to most people. Can you imagine telling your grandchildren that in your prime you were good at computer games? Video game fan is transient. Video games don't keep their popularity for more than 10 years. Even with BW in Korea, being a BW pro gives you a huge stigma when compared to other jobs you could have done with your brilliant RTS mind, e.g. lawyering, investment banking, corporate management, or even normal jobs like accounting or administration etc. Sorry but 300k/year is NOTHING considering that: 1. your career is transient - maybe 3-5 years max 2. you have no education and/or work experience during your progaming career 3. you have no reasonable career prospects afterwards outside SC2 or progaming; no promotion prospects; i.e. you have no valid transition out of SC2, you are "all-in" 4. no substantial contact with social networks outside gaming; i.e. 90% of the people you know are gaming and are probably your rivals at some time and place 5. you have no girlfriend or at least no fulfilling relationship with your girlfriend, unless you make significant sacrifices in your SC2 career to do so 6. you have no real job security, and you have little say in how your career will be headed; SC2 is going to die out within the 15 years, and your ability will probably be surpassed in the next 1-2 years; might also get screwed over by map makers and Blizzard patch makers 7. even your fame is very limited and very transient; your fame is limited to nerds and casual enthusiasts who watch you on their computers; this group of people are notoriously fickle and will probably latch on the next big progamer and mostly forget about you (e.g. qxc ever since he went to study in Spain, Ret ever since he left Korea, Huk ever since he stopped winning tournaments) 8. the BIG one: if you were good enough to be making 300k/yr in SC2, you are probably talented enough to be making 300k/yr in another profession that may or may not be more fulfilling to you IMO, progaming in SC2 has too much risk and too little reward. Only those without any other realistic prospects, and those who are still in high school and have a great talent in SC2, and of course those who had an SC2 progaming career fall into their laps without trying (e.g. IdrA and other BW foreign "pros"), should be actively pursuing a career out of SC2 progaming. For those who claim that SC2 would be a great career for those who do it out of passion and not money, well let me ask you this: How passionate will you be about SC2 when you are forced to play 12 hours a day, everyday, and have to win the next tournament or the next show match or else you cannot buy your next meal or pay your next rent? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you realise you have been a total deadbeat for 9 months, relying on the dole and your grandmother's pension while you try to mass game to catch up to the top? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you see your former peers and friends move ahead in life, marrying, having kids, buying houses, and being able to financially support it? Well said sir! This man has his wisdom. Heed this man's words. Pro-gaming is not all its luster. | ||
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rbx270j
Canada540 Posts
On May 03 2011 21:17 pHelix Equilibria wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2011 18:41 tyCe wrote: Why is progaming so desirable anyway? That's a question that I don't really understand. I mean, I would love to be an elite professional footballer, but being an elite SC2 pro is completely different. You don't have the fame except to a bunch of fat, ugly fangirls and a bunch of nerds and casuals watching at their computers. You don't have great pay compared to other jobs you could have done (assuming that your intelligence and/or charisma is the reason for your SC2 success).. Further, your career is short and it is stressful to keep your position at the time. You have no employment prospects outside of the progaming scene after your career is done either. Furthermore, your achievements mean nothing to most people. Can you imagine telling your grandchildren that in your prime you were good at computer games? Video game fan is transient. Video games don't keep their popularity for more than 10 years. Even with BW in Korea, being a BW pro gives you a huge stigma when compared to other jobs you could have done with your brilliant RTS mind, e.g. lawyering, investment banking, corporate management, or even normal jobs like accounting or administration etc. Sorry but 300k/year is NOTHING considering that: 1. your career is transient - maybe 3-5 years max 2. you have no education and/or work experience during your progaming career 3. you have no reasonable career prospects afterwards outside SC2 or progaming; no promotion prospects; i.e. you have no valid transition out of SC2, you are "all-in" 4. no substantial contact with social networks outside gaming; i.e. 90% of the people you know are gaming and are probably your rivals at some time and place 5. you have no girlfriend or at least no fulfilling relationship with your girlfriend, unless you make significant sacrifices in your SC2 career to do so 6. you have no real job security, and you have little say in how your career will be headed; SC2 is going to die out within the 15 years, and your ability will probably be surpassed in the next 1-2 years; might also get screwed over by map makers and Blizzard patch makers 7. even your fame is very limited and very transient; your fame is limited to nerds and casual enthusiasts who watch you on their computers; this group of people are notoriously fickle and will probably latch on the next big progamer and mostly forget about you (e.g. qxc ever since he went to study in Spain, Ret ever since he left Korea, Huk ever since he stopped winning tournaments) 8. the BIG one: if you were good enough to be making 300k/yr in SC2, you are probably talented enough to be making 300k/yr in another profession that may or may not be more fulfilling to you IMO, progaming in SC2 has too much risk and too little reward. Only those without any other realistic prospects, and those who are still in high school and have a great talent in SC2, and of course those who had an SC2 progaming career fall into their laps without trying (e.g. IdrA and other BW foreign "pros"), should be actively pursuing a career out of SC2 progaming. For those who claim that SC2 would be a great career for those who do it out of passion and not money, well let me ask you this: How passionate will you be about SC2 when you are forced to play 12 hours a day, everyday, and have to win the next tournament or the next show match or else you cannot buy your next meal or pay your next rent? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you realise you have been a total deadbeat for 9 months, relying on the dole and your grandmother's pension while you try to mass game to catch up to the top? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you see your former peers and friends move ahead in life, marrying, having kids, buying houses, and being able to financially support it? Well said sir! This man has his wisdom. Heed this man's words. Pro-gaming is not all its luster. The idea isn't that you'll deck yourself out with bling and gold-diggers, rather that you can sustain your life & lifestyle by doing what you love doing. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
On May 03 2011 21:17 pHelix Equilibria wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2011 18:41 tyCe wrote: Why is progaming so desirable anyway? That's a question that I don't really understand. I mean, I would love to be an elite professional footballer, but being an elite SC2 pro is completely different. You don't have the fame except to a bunch of fat, ugly fangirls and a bunch of nerds and casuals watching at their computers. You don't have great pay compared to other jobs you could have done (assuming that your intelligence and/or charisma is the reason for your SC2 success).. Further, your career is short and it is stressful to keep your position at the time. You have no employment prospects outside of the progaming scene after your career is done either. Furthermore, your achievements mean nothing to most people. Can you imagine telling your grandchildren that in your prime you were good at computer games? Video game fan is transient. Video games don't keep their popularity for more than 10 years. Even with BW in Korea, being a BW pro gives you a huge stigma when compared to other jobs you could have done with your brilliant RTS mind, e.g. lawyering, investment banking, corporate management, or even normal jobs like accounting or administration etc. Sorry but 300k/year is NOTHING considering that: 1. your career is transient - maybe 3-5 years max 2. you have no education and/or work experience during your progaming career 3. you have no reasonable career prospects afterwards outside SC2 or progaming; no promotion prospects; i.e. you have no valid transition out of SC2, you are "all-in" 4. no substantial contact with social networks outside gaming; i.e. 90% of the people you know are gaming and are probably your rivals at some time and place 5. you have no girlfriend or at least no fulfilling relationship with your girlfriend, unless you make significant sacrifices in your SC2 career to do so 6. you have no real job security, and you have little say in how your career will be headed; SC2 is going to die out within the 15 years, and your ability will probably be surpassed in the next 1-2 years; might also get screwed over by map makers and Blizzard patch makers 7. even your fame is very limited and very transient; your fame is limited to nerds and casual enthusiasts who watch you on their computers; this group of people are notoriously fickle and will probably latch on the next big progamer and mostly forget about you (e.g. qxc ever since he went to study in Spain, Ret ever since he left Korea, Huk ever since he stopped winning tournaments) 8. the BIG one: if you were good enough to be making 300k/yr in SC2, you are probably talented enough to be making 300k/yr in another profession that may or may not be more fulfilling to you IMO, progaming in SC2 has too much risk and too little reward. Only those without any other realistic prospects, and those who are still in high school and have a great talent in SC2, and of course those who had an SC2 progaming career fall into their laps without trying (e.g. IdrA and other BW foreign "pros"), should be actively pursuing a career out of SC2 progaming. For those who claim that SC2 would be a great career for those who do it out of passion and not money, well let me ask you this: How passionate will you be about SC2 when you are forced to play 12 hours a day, everyday, and have to win the next tournament or the next show match or else you cannot buy your next meal or pay your next rent? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you realise you have been a total deadbeat for 9 months, relying on the dole and your grandmother's pension while you try to mass game to catch up to the top? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you see your former peers and friends move ahead in life, marrying, having kids, buying houses, and being able to financially support it? Well said sir! This man has his wisdom. Heed this man's words. Pro-gaming is not all its luster. Meh. Of course doing 12 hours everyday of something you love can be tiring and boring. But that's better than doing 12 hours of everyday of something you don't even love in the first place. No one is saying pro gaming is a better career path money wise than the standard way of getting a degree - go for standard day jobs at this point of time. Most progamers know and realise that. Day9 probably will still earn more if he utilise his degree and find a corporate job unless something drastic happens to esports. But you guess which one is more fulfilling for him and which career path will he take? Even if esports path give him less than half of normal job, i bet he'll still take the esport path. | ||
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dahornnn
United Kingdom395 Posts
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pHelix Equilibria
United States1134 Posts
On May 03 2011 21:22 rbx270j wrote: The idea isn't that you'll deck yourself out with bling and gold-diggers, rather that you can sustain your life & lifestyle by doing what you love doing. Oh yeah, for how long? A good pro career lasts over a gamer's working life of 30-40 years? The love what you are doing is such BS. So doctors must despise saving lives. I bet that video games are not as fun if your livelihood depends on it. | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On May 03 2011 08:36 rickybobby wrote: there were a bunch of personal sponsorship announcments before MLG dallas like TLO and Kiwikaki and root getting sponsors like dr pepper and aw root beer and such, those probably get the players a significant amount of money I'm pretty sure that Root getting A&W root beer as a sponsor was an April Fool's joke. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
On May 03 2011 21:17 pHelix Equilibria wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2011 18:41 tyCe wrote: Why is progaming so desirable anyway? That's a question that I don't really understand. I mean, I would love to be an elite professional footballer, but being an elite SC2 pro is completely different. You don't have the fame except to a bunch of fat, ugly fangirls and a bunch of nerds and casuals watching at their computers. You don't have great pay compared to other jobs you could have done (assuming that your intelligence and/or charisma is the reason for your SC2 success).. Further, your career is short and it is stressful to keep your position at the time. You have no employment prospects outside of the progaming scene after your career is done either. Furthermore, your achievements mean nothing to most people. Can you imagine telling your grandchildren that in your prime you were good at computer games? Video game fan is transient. Video games don't keep their popularity for more than 10 years. Even with BW in Korea, being a BW pro gives you a huge stigma when compared to other jobs you could have done with your brilliant RTS mind, e.g. lawyering, investment banking, corporate management, or even normal jobs like accounting or administration etc. Sorry but 300k/year is NOTHING considering that: 1. your career is transient - maybe 3-5 years max 2. you have no education and/or work experience during your progaming career 3. you have no reasonable career prospects afterwards outside SC2 or progaming; no promotion prospects; i.e. you have no valid transition out of SC2, you are "all-in" 4. no substantial contact with social networks outside gaming; i.e. 90% of the people you know are gaming and are probably your rivals at some time and place 5. you have no girlfriend or at least no fulfilling relationship with your girlfriend, unless you make significant sacrifices in your SC2 career to do so 6. you have no real job security, and you have little say in how your career will be headed; SC2 is going to die out within the 15 years, and your ability will probably be surpassed in the next 1-2 years; might also get screwed over by map makers and Blizzard patch makers 7. even your fame is very limited and very transient; your fame is limited to nerds and casual enthusiasts who watch you on their computers; this group of people are notoriously fickle and will probably latch on the next big progamer and mostly forget about you (e.g. qxc ever since he went to study in Spain, Ret ever since he left Korea, Huk ever since he stopped winning tournaments) 8. the BIG one: if you were good enough to be making 300k/yr in SC2, you are probably talented enough to be making 300k/yr in another profession that may or may not be more fulfilling to you IMO, progaming in SC2 has too much risk and too little reward. Only those without any other realistic prospects, and those who are still in high school and have a great talent in SC2, and of course those who had an SC2 progaming career fall into their laps without trying (e.g. IdrA and other BW foreign "pros"), should be actively pursuing a career out of SC2 progaming. For those who claim that SC2 would be a great career for those who do it out of passion and not money, well let me ask you this: How passionate will you be about SC2 when you are forced to play 12 hours a day, everyday, and have to win the next tournament or the next show match or else you cannot buy your next meal or pay your next rent? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you realise you have been a total deadbeat for 9 months, relying on the dole and your grandmother's pension while you try to mass game to catch up to the top? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you see your former peers and friends move ahead in life, marrying, having kids, buying houses, and being able to financially support it? Well said sir! This man has his wisdom. Heed this man's words. Pro-gaming is not all its luster. Very well said by tyCe and i agree on all points, online gamers tend to be very fickle and easily the most inconsistent fans out there. Not to mention the fact that most progamers are young teens or early 20 somethings ie: young people, many of whom are spending abnormal amount of time just focusing on 1 thing, a videogame. I cant speak for anyone but if i turned 40 and knew that i spent 5-10 best years of my life on a videogame trying to please a very fickle crowd who enjoy complaining more than anything else i would be pretty bitter. Life is not about money, but when it is all said and done, you wake up and you have very little but memories to show for, i doubt many employers will be impressed that you spent 10 years being a "progamer", regardless of how much skill and dedication it takes, the outside world simply does not see it that way. I appriciate that they provide us with alot of entertainment and i am not trying to dog on them, i like to pretend that they will all end up being very successfull and satisfied later on in life. Watch Chasing Ghosts: Beyond the Arcade, it is a documentary about progamers from the early 1980's who played arcade games, many of them appeared on national TV shows, some got sponsorships and advertised various things such as gamepads and games, others even had fat contracts etc. The documentary then shows us where they are now and pretty much all of them seem to lead pretty lousy lives, one guy sleeps on the carpet, one is still living with his parents and collects pornography and many of them meet up at Sunspot Arcade to reminisce of old times and when they truly mattered. If anything will put a damper on "esports" this movie will. The little money they made ran out, they had nothing to fall back on, they were addicted to the crowds giving them respect and simply could never move on from their progamer lifestyle. The only lesson i was able to extract from this was if you cant let go of the past and the glory days you will be stuck trying to replicate them because they had nothing else. Those few who had success seemed to be able to let go and put the same efforts into something else as they did in gaming. Id like to believe that nobody will end up that way in the SC2 community, but you cant rule out the possiblity, because there are so many smart and dedicated people. They train for longer hours than almost anyone, because of the nature of sports, training 10 hours a day is simply not plausible and would actually make you worse than better. I cant tell them what to do, but i just hope many of them are able to transition out of it and be proud about it one day and not have any regrets. | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On May 03 2011 21:33 pHelix Equilibria wrote: Oh yeah, for how long? A good pro career lasts over a gamer's working life of 30-40 years? The love what you are doing is such BS. So doctors must despise saving lives. I bet that video games are not as fun if your livelihood depends on it. Most progamers I know already have their degree. It's their life anyway, let them enjoy doing what they enjoy doing and keep your business to yourself. I don't see the point of all the speculation in this thread. The amount of money progamers make varies by so much from person to person. There are so many factors -How much do they stream/how often? -How much do they charge to coach? -How many lessons do they do per day? -Do they win turnys? -Do they get a salary? etc...etc... It's going to vary so much from person to person, this is really not worth discussing. | ||
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GagnarTheUnruly
United States655 Posts
On May 03 2011 21:40 Minigun wrote: Most progamers I know already have their degree. It's their life anyway, let them enjoy doing what they enjoy doing and keep your business to yourself. I don't see the point of all the speculation in this thread. The amount of money progamers make varies by so much from person to person. There are so many factors -How much do they stream/how often? -How much do they charge to coach? -How many lessons do they do per day? -Do they win turnys? -Do they get a salary? etc...etc... It's going to vary so much from person to person, this is really not worth discussing. I think it's because even this information isn't necessarily common knowledge, and because people don't have any concept of how well the alternative sources of income pay. Posts like this and like incontrol's last post are the most useful. I know from my perspective as a married homeowner who's starting a family, when I look at tournament prize winnings I think -- "how could a person survive on such a low and inconsistent income?" I know that coaching, streaming, and to some extent team membership helps players out, but I don't know what that means. Can streaming pay for health insurance? Can it pay rent? Can the teams help with that stuff? I'm not interested because I want to pry into the personal lives of the players. Their income is their business and often it's not even their right to discuss it. But these people are also public figures and people are going to be curious about what kind of living they can make. Some people are voyeurs, some concerned, and some just immature, but curiosity is natural. I can't help but have my curiosity piqued, but I can see how this speculation could make some of the pros uncomfortable or irritated. | ||
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zende
Sweden234 Posts
It's an unstable source of income. But it's gotta be really damn fun. | ||
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Qkombur
United States23 Posts
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Passo
United States26 Posts
On May 03 2011 18:41 tyCe wrote: Why is progaming so desirable anyway? That's a question that I don't really understand. I mean, I would love to be an elite professional footballer, but being an elite SC2 pro is completely different. You don't have the fame except to a bunch of fat, ugly fangirls and a bunch of nerds and casuals watching at their computers. You don't have great pay compared to other jobs you could have done (assuming that your intelligence and/or charisma is the reason for your SC2 success).. Further, your career is short and it is stressful to keep your position at the time. You have no employment prospects outside of the progaming scene after your career is done either. Furthermore, your achievements mean nothing to most people. Can you imagine telling your grandchildren that in your prime you were good at computer games? Video game fan is transient. Video games don't keep their popularity for more than 10 years. Even with BW in Korea, being a BW pro gives you a huge stigma when compared to other jobs you could have done with your brilliant RTS mind, e.g. lawyering, investment banking, corporate management, or even normal jobs like accounting or administration etc. Sorry but 300k/year is NOTHING considering that: 1. your career is transient - maybe 3-5 years max 2. you have no education and/or work experience during your progaming career 3. you have no reasonable career prospects afterwards outside SC2 or progaming; no promotion prospects; i.e. you have no valid transition out of SC2, you are "all-in" 4. no substantial contact with social networks outside gaming; i.e. 90% of the people you know are gaming and are probably your rivals at some time and place 5. you have no girlfriend or at least no fulfilling relationship with your girlfriend, unless you make significant sacrifices in your SC2 career to do so 6. you have no real job security, and you have little say in how your career will be headed; SC2 is going to die out within the 15 years, and your ability will probably be surpassed in the next 1-2 years; might also get screwed over by map makers and Blizzard patch makers 7. even your fame is very limited and very transient; your fame is limited to nerds and casual enthusiasts who watch you on their computers; this group of people are notoriously fickle and will probably latch on the next big progamer and mostly forget about you (e.g. qxc ever since he went to study in Spain, Ret ever since he left Korea, Huk ever since he stopped winning tournaments) 8. the BIG one: if you were good enough to be making 300k/yr in SC2, you are probably talented enough to be making 300k/yr in another profession that may or may not be more fulfilling to you IMO, progaming in SC2 has too much risk and too little reward. Only those without any other realistic prospects, and those who are still in high school and have a great talent in SC2, and of course those who had an SC2 progaming career fall into their laps without trying (e.g. IdrA and other BW foreign "pros"), should be actively pursuing a career out of SC2 progaming. For those who claim that SC2 would be a great career for those who do it out of passion and not money, well let me ask you this: How passionate will you be about SC2 when you are forced to play 12 hours a day, everyday, and have to win the next tournament or the next show match or else you cannot buy your next meal or pay your next rent? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you realise you have been a total deadbeat for 9 months, relying on the dole and your grandmother's pension while you try to mass game to catch up to the top? How passionate will you be about SC2 when you see your former peers and friends move ahead in life, marrying, having kids, buying houses, and being able to financially support it? Logical Fallacy, Just because SCII is in part a mental game does not mean that they would be able to gain entry into a highly pursued lucrative career. I'm certain you do not quite understand how difficult it is to gain entry into the fields of Medicine, I-Banking, and Big law. (The turnover in I-Banking and Big Law is about 5 years by the way, so yes you will have made a decent chunk of money and gained a tangible skill in school, but the 150k paychecks aren't guaranteed to rain down on you forever.) | ||
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