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On June 19 2011 23:38 XsebT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 09:44 sluggaslamoo wrote:On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2. Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment". Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level. Where do you have this from? It contradicts everything I've heard. I'm not sure about his wrist/skin problems, but they've certainly not necessarily come from playing.
In one interview he said he was only sleeping 3 hours a night, the rest starcraft.
Look at the HD photos of Flash where you can zoom in on his wrist, there are very visible blisters from grinding his wrist on the mousepad for 20 hours a day.
In another interview I think it was his coach, told a story where Flash got blisters on his hands and then they started bleeding, but he wouldn't stop. His team mates had to force him to stop.
I've read all of Flash's and almost every other progamer interviews, sift through those if you want to find out.
His wrist problem is a different story altogether. That's most likely a case of RSI, knotted muscles from not positioning your wrists and arms ergonomically I assume (its actually quite common with programmers as well). If you look at the way Flash plays he has very bad posture, when I saw him play in his first finals vs Jaedong I was wondering how he didn't have wrist problems.
On July 08 2011 21:36 Spitfire wrote:
It would be so epic if Flash, Jaedong and Bisu switched to StarCraft 2. It feels like this momentous occasion thats being built up to more and more and when it finally happens the world will explode.
But I have doubts about certain things:
A) Whether Flash will keep his race or not. Jaedong and Bisu will stick to their races I think, and I hope Flash does too, but does Terran in SC 2 suit his turtling Brood War playing style as well?
B) Whether they'll dominate as completely as people think. Having the best mechanics is a huge advantage but not enough in SC2, so many of the top BW players seem to lose games because of the differences when it comes to scouting in SC2. They're all used to playing in a reactive away because of BW and I think I've heard some of them comment on how much harder it is to be prepared in SC 2
Something a lot of people forget. At first Flash was known for being the best at cheese, and doing it every game. Now not only is Flash the best at cheesing, he is the best at turtling too. Meaning he can leverage his already insane mind-gaming ability to an extreme level.
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Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game.
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Flash would dominate SC2. He is like a chess player playing against people who play checkers.
I wasn't even a fan of his until i witnessed how he completely dismantled Jaedong and Zero with unbelievable timing pushes. and great defenses of his base. This guy can do everything.
It would be an embarrassment for people to say that people like MC, Nestea and others would have a shot against flash in SC2 if Flash decides to play. If you haven't watched flash play recently, you can't really comment on this thread. please argue with educated rts reponses here.
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On July 12 2011 14:00 shockaslim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 20:44 UkGracken wrote:
I think that people just have to realise that the BEST players of every race have also been the highest up in BW of all the players when they left BW,
MC
MVP (took a game off flash in tvt.. just no comment at how unreal good u must be to do that.)
NESTEA
There is little doubt julyzerg, boxer, nada, Were better players at that "time" in there BW carrier, but that was a long time ago for all of them (In starcraft bw terms 6 months is half a lifetime)
And i recall idra saying "if stork swapped over and played protoss he would litrally never lose a game"
Obviously he is saying protoss is strong but he is also saying that argueably (Although the fact he has won like 10 silverplace medals says so.) the most consistent best protoss swapped to protoss in sc2 he would never lose,
Anyone who watches FLASH or JAEDONG or STORK or BISU in fpvod will know if they ever swap over hell is going to break loose
Just think there were many many top players who started years and years later ..and now are untouchable.
They didn't call jaedong the dragonslayer for nothing.
Edit :
For people who didnt know.. They called him the dragonslayer because when he was "Coming" up in his carrier he just beat the best legends one after another, slaying the dragons of starcraft 1 by 1.
Quit talking out of your ass bro. MC wasn't that good at Brood War, Nestea mostly played in 2v2 tourneys, and MVP was kind of decent. No way in hell they were "the highest up in BW".
He's not saying MC, Nestea, and MVP were good at Broodwar. Instead, he's saying they're the best Broodwar players to actually switch (with the caveat that July, Boxer, and Nada were relatively more dominant, but not absolutely superior to the aforementioned players).
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On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game.
He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else.
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If he wasn't injured yes he would dominate around the world because of his training and determination.
He needs to rest after his reign is over in BW and let his body repair itself while studying ScII or coaching in BW.
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On July 16 2011 15:33 Alabasern wrote:
He needs to rest after his reign is over in BW and let his body repair itself while studying ScII or coaching in BW.
the only way his reign in BW ends is if the wrist becomes a chronic problem. the guaranteed money of raping OSL season after season is much more appealing than the inconsistencies of sc2.
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On July 16 2011 15:41 Terranist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 15:33 Alabasern wrote:
He needs to rest after his reign is over in BW and let his body repair itself while studying ScII or coaching in BW. the only way his reign in BW ends is if the wrist becomes a chronic problem. the guaranteed money of raping OSL season after season is much more appealing than the inconsistencies of sc2.
What inconsistencies?
On the contrary, there are more big prize tournaments for sc2 than bw. GSL, MLG, NASL, Dreamhack and many many tournies with 1k-5k prizes scattered here and there.
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On July 16 2011 15:46 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 15:41 Terranist wrote:On July 16 2011 15:33 Alabasern wrote:
He needs to rest after his reign is over in BW and let his body repair itself while studying ScII or coaching in BW. the only way his reign in BW ends is if the wrist becomes a chronic problem. the guaranteed money of raping OSL season after season is much more appealing than the inconsistencies of sc2. What inconsistencies? On the contrary, there are more big prize tournaments for sc2 than bw. GSL, MLG, NASL, Dreamhack and many many tournies with 1k-5k prizes scattered here and there.
Last interview I saw had him at over 250,000USD salary not counting sponsorship bonuses and prize money. Sc2 money to Flash is peanuts.
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On July 16 2011 15:46 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 15:41 Terranist wrote:On July 16 2011 15:33 Alabasern wrote:
He needs to rest after his reign is over in BW and let his body repair itself while studying ScII or coaching in BW. the only way his reign in BW ends is if the wrist becomes a chronic problem. the guaranteed money of raping OSL season after season is much more appealing than the inconsistencies of sc2. What inconsistencies? On the contrary, there are more big prize tournaments for sc2 than bw. GSL, MLG, NASL, Dreamhack and many many tournies with 1k-5k prizes scattered here and there.
rumors are that flash makes 200k a year, plus his food/home get paid for and that doesn't include prize money... so hes definitely making way more than he would in SC2... even if he won GSL every time... 200k a year is pretty ridiculous
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On July 16 2011 15:55 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 15:46 Steveling wrote:On July 16 2011 15:41 Terranist wrote:On July 16 2011 15:33 Alabasern wrote:
He needs to rest after his reign is over in BW and let his body repair itself while studying ScII or coaching in BW. the only way his reign in BW ends is if the wrist becomes a chronic problem. the guaranteed money of raping OSL season after season is much more appealing than the inconsistencies of sc2. What inconsistencies? On the contrary, there are more big prize tournaments for sc2 than bw. GSL, MLG, NASL, Dreamhack and many many tournies with 1k-5k prizes scattered here and there. rumors are that flash makes 200k a year, plus his food/home get paid for and that doesn't include prize money... so hes definitely making way more than he would in SC2... even if he won GSL every time... 200k a year is pretty ridiculous
I would guess he's making more than 200k/year.
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On July 16 2011 15:54 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 15:46 Steveling wrote:On July 16 2011 15:41 Terranist wrote:On July 16 2011 15:33 Alabasern wrote:
He needs to rest after his reign is over in BW and let his body repair itself while studying ScII or coaching in BW. the only way his reign in BW ends is if the wrist becomes a chronic problem. the guaranteed money of raping OSL season after season is much more appealing than the inconsistencies of sc2. What inconsistencies? On the contrary, there are more big prize tournaments for sc2 than bw. GSL, MLG, NASL, Dreamhack and many many tournies with 1k-5k prizes scattered here and there. Last interview I saw had him at over 250,000USD salary not counting sponsorship bonuses and prize money. Sc2 money to Flash is peanuts.
Didn't he say that he made like $480,000 in 2010 counting salary, prize money, bonus, weekly MVP awards, etc. Or am I just crazy.
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On July 16 2011 13:08 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 14:00 shockaslim wrote:On July 08 2011 20:44 UkGracken wrote:
I think that people just have to realise that the BEST players of every race have also been the highest up in BW of all the players when they left BW,
MC
MVP (took a game off flash in tvt.. just no comment at how unreal good u must be to do that.)
NESTEA
There is little doubt julyzerg, boxer, nada, Were better players at that "time" in there BW carrier, but that was a long time ago for all of them (In starcraft bw terms 6 months is half a lifetime)
And i recall idra saying "if stork swapped over and played protoss he would litrally never lose a game"
Obviously he is saying protoss is strong but he is also saying that argueably (Although the fact he has won like 10 silverplace medals says so.) the most consistent best protoss swapped to protoss in sc2 he would never lose,
Anyone who watches FLASH or JAEDONG or STORK or BISU in fpvod will know if they ever swap over hell is going to break loose
Just think there were many many top players who started years and years later ..and now are untouchable.
They didn't call jaedong the dragonslayer for nothing.
Edit :
For people who didnt know.. They called him the dragonslayer because when he was "Coming" up in his carrier he just beat the best legends one after another, slaying the dragons of starcraft 1 by 1.
Quit talking out of your ass bro. MC wasn't that good at Brood War, Nestea mostly played in 2v2 tourneys, and MVP was kind of decent. No way in hell they were "the highest up in BW". He's not saying MC, Nestea, and MVP were good at Broodwar. Instead, he's saying they're the best Broodwar players to actually switch (with the caveat that July, Boxer, and Nada were relatively more dominant, but not absolutely superior to the aforementioned players).
I haven't read the rest of the thread so maybe I'm missing something here, but July was infinitely better in every way imaginable at BW than Nestea. Plus Sangho was definitely more successful than MC. I'm not saying this to suggest BW skill hasn't translated over very well to Sc2 skill, but it's not as clear-cut as people make it out to be.
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On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else.
I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making.
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On July 12 2011 14:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 23:38 XsebT wrote:On May 27 2011 09:44 sluggaslamoo wrote:On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2. Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment". Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level. Where do you have this from? It contradicts everything I've heard. I'm not sure about his wrist/skin problems, but they've certainly not necessarily come from playing. In one interview he said he was only sleeping 3 hours a night, the rest starcraft. Look at the HD photos of Flash where you can zoom in on his wrist, there are very visible blisters from grinding his wrist on the mousepad for 20 hours a day. In another interview I think it was his coach, told a story where Flash got blisters on his hands and then they started bleeding, but he wouldn't stop. His team mates had to force him to stop. I've read all of Flash's and almost every other progamer interviews, sift through those if you want to find out. His wrist problem is a different story altogether. That's most likely a case of RSI, knotted muscles from not positioning your wrists and arms ergonomically I assume (its actually quite common with programmers as well). If you look at the way Flash plays he has very bad posture, when I saw him play in his first finals vs Jaedong I was wondering how he didn't have wrist problems. Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 21:36 Spitfire wrote:
It would be so epic if Flash, Jaedong and Bisu switched to StarCraft 2. It feels like this momentous occasion thats being built up to more and more and when it finally happens the world will explode.
But I have doubts about certain things:
A) Whether Flash will keep his race or not. Jaedong and Bisu will stick to their races I think, and I hope Flash does too, but does Terran in SC 2 suit his turtling Brood War playing style as well?
B) Whether they'll dominate as completely as people think. Having the best mechanics is a huge advantage but not enough in SC2, so many of the top BW players seem to lose games because of the differences when it comes to scouting in SC2. They're all used to playing in a reactive away because of BW and I think I've heard some of them comment on how much harder it is to be prepared in SC 2 Something a lot of people forget. At first Flash was known for being the best at cheese, and doing it every game. Now not only is Flash the best at cheesing, he is the best at turtling too. Meaning he can leverage his already insane mind-gaming ability to an extreme level.
Flash has the "it" factor. He can come up with insane strats that, as you said, his mind games and mechanics carry it through. I hope that he eventually switches to SC2. But for now I love the ass kicking he delivers in the best game ever made.
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On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making.
Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them.
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On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them.
I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time.
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On July 22 2011 15:05 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them. I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time.
not two months. Skills are transferable, but it is a different game, it's not just a watered down brood war. It is a serious esport. No one dominates in 2 months
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On July 23 2011 13:04 SxYSpAz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:05 tripper688 wrote:On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them. I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time. not two months. Skills are transferable, but it is a different game, it's not just a watered down brood war. It is a serious esport. No one dominates in 2 months
It is a different game, but there is not much difference at all. Its basically the simplified version(mechanics wise) of brood war with different units. If Flash had a coach and good practice buddy telling him what to do at any point in the game he would improve so freaking fast. Trust me on that one
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Flash would train more in a few days than some pro gamers in the west do in a monthhed catch up real fast.
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EPT
