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On July 23 2011 13:04 SxYSpAz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:05 tripper688 wrote:On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them. I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time. not two months. Skills are transferable, but it is a different game, it's not just a watered down brood war. It is a serious esport. No one dominates in 2 months
Puma is arguably the best player to transfer over and it only took him a few months to win NASL, obviously relying only on his mechanics and still behind in terms of strategy and game sense.
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On July 23 2011 13:36 bigbeau wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 13:04 SxYSpAz wrote:On July 22 2011 15:05 tripper688 wrote:On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them. I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time. not two months. Skills are transferable, but it is a different game, it's not just a watered down brood war. It is a serious esport. No one dominates in 2 months Puma is arguably the best player to transfer over and it only took him a few months to win NASL, obviously relying only on his mechanics and still behind in terms of strategy and game sense. A few months? According to the "Puma -> EG" thread he had been with TSL for 10 months(quote in OP by coach Lee) and in the interview with coach Lee translated from playxp he said that they had been together for a year(first question answered, third row).
How is that anything like a high profile bw player just magically mastering the game in a couple of months? He's basically been playing in a professional team practising with professional practice partners full time for almost a year. Coincidentally, the game has been out for about that long so in essence, Puma has been playing SC2 since the very start.
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no high profile brood war player has switched yet. so really...no one actually knows how fast they would master the game. it can be assumed though that a high profile brood war player would master the game faster than a much worse brood war player like puma, mvp, zergbong etc.
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On July 23 2011 13:04 SxYSpAz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:05 tripper688 wrote:On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them. I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time. not two months. Skills are transferable, but it is a different game, it's not just a watered down brood war. It is a serious esport. No one dominates in 2 months
Look at NaDa. Guy is still in school, barely practices (by progaming standards) and is doing amazingly well. Look at July. Within months of breaking into the scene from his retirement in BW, he was making a huge splash in GSL and later on, NASL. Almost all the top tier sc2 players have a BW background...why is that? Well, it could be coincidence OR it could just be that many of the skills are transferable. Which is precisely why that and work ethic would propel the current BW powerhouses into the SC2 elite within a very short period of time.
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On July 23 2011 14:41 Diglett wrote:
no high profile brood war player has switched yet. so really...no one actually knows how fast they would master the game. it can be assumed though that a high profile brood war player would master the game faster than a much worse brood war player like puma, mvp, zergbong etc.
Basically this. The current top tier players have showed what solid BW grounding brings to the table. They were all basically fringe A teamers/B teamers at the time of their switch. A current S class BW player might not have the same grasp of SC2 right away, but right off the bat, their micro, multitasking, and game sense would be far better than the current crop of players.
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On July 23 2011 14:35 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 13:36 bigbeau wrote:On July 23 2011 13:04 SxYSpAz wrote:On July 22 2011 15:05 tripper688 wrote:On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them. I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time. not two months. Skills are transferable, but it is a different game, it's not just a watered down brood war. It is a serious esport. No one dominates in 2 months Puma is arguably the best player to transfer over and it only took him a few months to win NASL, obviously relying only on his mechanics and still behind in terms of strategy and game sense. A few months? According to the " Puma -> EG" thread he had been with TSL for 10 months(quote in OP by coach Lee) and in the interview with coach Lee translated from playxp he said that they had been together for a year(first question answered, third row). How is that anything like a high profile bw player just magically mastering the game in a couple of months? He's basically been playing in a professional team practising with professional practice partners full time for almost a year. Coincidentally, the game has been out for about that long so in essence, Puma has been playing SC2 since the very start.
That isn't true. Puma was still a part of Hite back in late October of last year, so he has not been playing SC2 "fulltime" nor has he been apart of TSL for a year.
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On July 24 2011 16:06 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 14:41 Diglett wrote:
no high profile brood war player has switched yet. so really...no one actually knows how fast they would master the game. it can be assumed though that a high profile brood war player would master the game faster than a much worse brood war player like puma, mvp, zergbong etc. Basically this. The current top tier players have showed what solid BW grounding brings to the table. They were all basically fringe A teamers/B teamers at the time of their switch. A current S class BW player might not have the same grasp of SC2 right away, but right off the bat, their micro, multitasking, and game sense would be far better than the current crop of players.
Yes. Someone else (and others) mentioned earlier but another important thing is worth ethic.
Top BW players typically practice at least 10-12+ hours a day.
That's huge. Not many SC2 players practice that many hours a day.
If the same BW players transfer over and practice that many hours a day, they'll likely improve significantly (with their already existing micro, macro, mechanics, etc).
Top BW players are at the top because of their worth ethic (maybe with a few rare exceptions).
Flash is good but he practices an average of 10+ hours a day I think, even though he's been doing so well (of course unfortunately his wrist is injured >.<) already.
I'm assuming the average person who practices that much (even if they never played an RTS before) will improve significantly faster than those who only practice half that amount.
So yes you can get "Joe never-played-an-RTS before" and you put him in a team house and have him practice. If he practices and studies strategies 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, then he could probably be able to defeat existing top players within maybe half a year or so (assuming the current top players do not practice as much >.>). For existing BW players, a lot of their mechanics transfers over so that time is reduced.
Of course an important thing is who you practice with. All examples are assumed that the practice is in a team house or any competitive environment.
BW vs SC2 - The strategies are different for some things but mechanics are at least half of the game IMO and BW mechanics can easily transfer to SC2.
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On July 24 2011 16:06 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 14:41 Diglett wrote:
no high profile brood war player has switched yet. so really...no one actually knows how fast they would master the game. it can be assumed though that a high profile brood war player would master the game faster than a much worse brood war player like puma, mvp, zergbong etc. Basically this. The current top tier players have showed what solid BW grounding brings to the table. They were all basically fringe A teamers/B teamers at the time of their switch. A current S class BW player might not have the same grasp of SC2 right away, but right off the bat, their micro, multitasking, and game sense would be far better than the current crop of players.
forgg is in top10 kr ladder. he was constantly on KT A team when he was in BW.
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On July 24 2011 16:02 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 13:04 SxYSpAz wrote:On July 22 2011 15:05 tripper688 wrote:On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them. I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time. not two months. Skills are transferable, but it is a different game, it's not just a watered down brood war. It is a serious esport. No one dominates in 2 months Look at NaDa. Guy is still in school, barely practices (by progaming standards) and is doing amazingly well. Look at July. Within months of breaking into the scene from his retirement in BW, he was making a huge splash in GSL and later on, NASL. Almost all the top tier sc2 players have a BW background...why is that? Well, it could be coincidence OR it could just be that many of the skills are transferable. Which is precisely why that and work ethic would propel the current BW powerhouses into the SC2 elite within a very short period of time.
like i said, skills are transferable, but i think gaming experience in general just makes it a lot easier. A lot of the warcraft 3 players are doing quite well too. Nada isn't on top and July is extremely inconsistent. Also, nada was in sc2 since practically the beginning, so even though he's only part time, he's been keeping up on the metagame and such.
Stop acting like just because BW experience is transferable that it's stupid to believe it would take longer than 2 months. SC2 4 months ago was much more approachable than it is now. It would take flash longer than 2 months to dominate.
I also wouldn't consider puma in a dominating position. He's won one tourney, granted, against MC, but it may be a while until we see him again. He's also been with TSL for atleast 4 months, since his first appearance was on GSTL march and was probably on the team much longer than that. And like i said before SC2 4 months ago was more approachable.
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Your video is a major fail. We can't even hear you talking.
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I think the floodgates will open when the current round of BW contracts expire and the first current A teamers start coming over. Once people are practicing 10+ hours a day and are seriously training to compete it's gonna get really exciting.
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On July 25 2011 09:55 SxYSpAz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 16:02 tripper688 wrote:On July 23 2011 13:04 SxYSpAz wrote:On July 22 2011 15:05 tripper688 wrote:On July 17 2011 15:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Maybe, I think it's impossible to say for sure thought unless you get a lot of replays and compare them. I would have to agree that Flash is more known for his game sense than his mechanics even though his mechanics are amazing. Either way though...I honestly can't imagine TBLS not raping face in SC2 within a month or two of switching should they choose. The fact is, most of the people at the top of the SC2 scene are the mediocre players of BW. They were B team/ fringe A team guys at the time of their switch. The best terrans so far in sc2 have been ex BW terrans. The best protoss so far have been ex BW protoss. The best zergs have so far been...well aside from zergbong, ex BW terrans (yea i know lol). Sure it's not a given but there is an extremely strong correlation between BW success and SC2 success. Even if the A/S class BW powerhouses don't rape face, they will DEFINITELY be amongst the best at their respective races in a fairly short amount of time. not two months. Skills are transferable, but it is a different game, it's not just a watered down brood war. It is a serious esport. No one dominates in 2 months Look at NaDa. Guy is still in school, barely practices (by progaming standards) and is doing amazingly well. Look at July. Within months of breaking into the scene from his retirement in BW, he was making a huge splash in GSL and later on, NASL. Almost all the top tier sc2 players have a BW background...why is that? Well, it could be coincidence OR it could just be that many of the skills are transferable. Which is precisely why that and work ethic would propel the current BW powerhouses into the SC2 elite within a very short period of time. like i said, skills are transferable, but i think gaming experience in general just makes it a lot easier. A lot of the warcraft 3 players are doing quite well too. Nada isn't on top and July is extremely inconsistent. Also, nada was in sc2 since practically the beginning, so even though he's only part time, he's been keeping up on the metagame and such. Stop acting like just because BW experience is transferable that it's stupid to believe it would take longer than 2 months. SC2 4 months ago was much more approachable than it is now. It would take flash longer than 2 months to dominate. I also wouldn't consider puma in a dominating position. He's won one tourney, granted, against MC, but it may be a while until we see him again. He's also been with TSL for atleast 4 months, since his first appearance was on GSTL march and was probably on the team much longer than that. And like i said before SC2 4 months ago was more approachable.
NaDa might not be the top but he's one of the most consistently solid Terrans around. 15 out of 18 GSL code S finalists have been ex BW pros. Considering absolutely none of these guys are anywhere near the level of RTS player that the BW S guys are, I don't think its absolutely inconceivable that given a couple of months time, they would start to become a force to be reckoned with in SC2 just by taking the meta builds and play styles and executing them better through their mechanics/multitasking/micro.
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On July 25 2011 11:01 lolsixtynine wrote:
I think the floodgates will open when the current round of BW contracts expire and the first current A teamers start coming over. Once people are practicing 10+ hours a day and are seriously training to compete it's gonna get really exciting.
Only a handful of SC2 progamers even have salaries. BW progamers are contracted for a reason - they actually get money for the work they do. Don't kid yourself, there isn't gonna be any massive exodus once those contracts expire. The vast majority of BW progamers that wanted to switch already did so (they contracts didn't have to expire from what I recall, although I'm not entirely sure). Compared to BW, SC2 has no infrastructure in Korea, why would those players switch?
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On July 25 2011 09:38 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 16:06 tripper688 wrote:On July 23 2011 14:41 Diglett wrote:
no high profile brood war player has switched yet. so really...no one actually knows how fast they would master the game. it can be assumed though that a high profile brood war player would master the game faster than a much worse brood war player like puma, mvp, zergbong etc. Basically this. The current top tier players have showed what solid BW grounding brings to the table. They were all basically fringe A teamers/B teamers at the time of their switch. A current S class BW player might not have the same grasp of SC2 right away, but right off the bat, their micro, multitasking, and game sense would be far better than the current crop of players. forgg is in top10 kr ladder. he was constantly on KT A team when he was in BW.
ForGG is retired and was hardly S-Class at the time of his retirement. Shows just how even normal A-Class players would do in Sc2, seeing top 10 in kr is huge.
Also, it's not only the mechanics. S-Class BW players are simply brilliant at RTS and strategies/tactics. Once they get used to SC2, they'll probably reform the game and probably create an entirely new way of playing certain things or matchups. It will happen as it happened in BW over time.
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On July 25 2011 09:33 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 16:06 tripper688 wrote:On July 23 2011 14:41 Diglett wrote:
no high profile brood war player has switched yet. so really...no one actually knows how fast they would master the game. it can be assumed though that a high profile brood war player would master the game faster than a much worse brood war player like puma, mvp, zergbong etc. Basically this. The current top tier players have showed what solid BW grounding brings to the table. They were all basically fringe A teamers/B teamers at the time of their switch. A current S class BW player might not have the same grasp of SC2 right away, but right off the bat, their micro, multitasking, and game sense would be far better than the current crop of players. Yes. Someone else (and others) mentioned earlier but another important thing is worth ethic. Top BW players typically practice at least 10-12+ hours a day. That's huge. Not many SC2 players practice that many hours a day. If the same BW players transfer over and practice that many hours a day, they'll likely improve significantly (with their already existing micro, macro, mechanics, etc). Top BW players are at the top because of their worth ethic (maybe with a few rare exceptions). Flash is good but he practices an average of 10+ hours a day I think, even though he's been doing so well (of course unfortunately his wrist is injured >.<) already. I'm assuming the average person who practices that much (even if they never played an RTS before) will improve significantly faster than those who only practice half that amount. So yes you can get "Joe never-played-an-RTS before" and you put him in a team house and have him practice. If he practices and studies strategies 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, then he could probably be able to defeat existing top players within maybe half a year or so (assuming the current top players do not practice as much >.>). For existing BW players, a lot of their mechanics transfers over so that time is reduced. Of course an important thing is who you practice with. All examples are assumed that the practice is in a team house or any competitive environment. BW vs SC2 - The strategies are different for some things but mechanics are at least half of the game IMO and BW mechanics can easily transfer to SC2.
Excepting Stork. Guys too busy playing those hardcore cellphone games to be bothered with something as simple as BW. 
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Let's stop this pointless arguing and stick with the facts:
15 of 18 GSL finalists had been (B, fringe A team) bs pros.
ALL bw pros that have switched over to sc2 for more than just a few months have done well.
So those who are still trying to argue that sc2 is a different game, where the skills are not totally tranferable and it's not certain bisu/jaedong/flash would dominate the scene are just hopeless bigots who have never watched and been awed by the inhuman speed/precision/decision making/build crafting abilities of actually good be players, the S and A+ ones.
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On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making.
Bisu technically has the best mechanics. His multitasking is the best, and that's not even debatable. Still, Jaedong's mechanics are a bit above Flash, but Flash still dominates through his amazing game sense, timings and strategies.
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On July 26 2011 14:50 Kalent wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 16:05 WindCalibur wrote:On July 16 2011 13:20 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:On July 12 2011 14:19 udgnim wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2
Flash isn't the best player ever in BW because of his APM nor is it because he does a better job of playing robotically than other players.
he's the best because his game sense & feel for timing is greater than all other BW players. there are plenty of players with APMs greater than Flash, but they don't come close to Flash's skill level because they lack and will never be able to realize the game sense that Flash possesses.
Flash's ability to develop a strong feel for a game will definitely transfer over to what can be considered a more simplified BW-esque game. He also has the best mechanics and prepares better than anyone else. I think Jaedong has the best mechanics.. Flash is known for his hacklike decision making. Bisu technically has the best mechanics. His multitasking is the best, and that's not even debatable. Still, Jaedong's mechanics are a bit above Flash, but Flash still dominates through his amazing game sense, timings and strategies.
Idk...the Dong's multitask is pretty nuts too. Maybe Bisu just seems better because he owns the MU as well as the head to head lately? BvZ imba lol
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On April 30 2011 16:45 jellyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 16:32 GolemMadness wrote:On April 30 2011 16:21 jellyfish wrote:On April 30 2011 16:15 GolemMadness wrote:
I didn't really watch MVP as a Brood War player, but looking at his stats, his overall record was 39%... How is this good in any way? If you transplanted Boxer et al in their primes to modern bw, they'd do worse than 39%. The point being, bw has evolved so much from when the past legends earned their legacy that the absolute skill level is much higher. The old legends (except for the hypothetical case of an inspired Nada, maybe) can't and couldn't keep up with the newer generations of players. That's ridiculous. Yeah, if you suddenly put them 8 years in the future and they tried to play exactly the same they wouldn't do too well, but they were the best at their time for a reason. Boxer couldn't keep up because he was 30 years old and was in the military for 2 years, so he was far past his prime. I was replying to that comment and this one: Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 16:07 GolemMadness wrote:On April 30 2011 11:17 infinity2k9 wrote:Yeah seriously from a BW perspective MC is a bit of a joke. Any A-team and probably half of the B-team members could play at his SC2 level. I have to say i cringed a bit when he said he'd like people to call him 'god protoss'. I mean seriously what? And yes MVP was definitely the best player to switch. But IrOn wasn't THAT far behind.. MVP got played a lot because of being the only half-decent T on his team, while MC/IrOn was not first choice at all. On April 30 2011 11:12 Tazerenix wrote:
Depends on what you mean by best. Is it the best player when they switched or the most accomplished player?
As a basketball analogy, think of Boxer and Nada as Shaq and Duncan while MVP is Zach Randolph. Is Zach Randolph close to being one of the best players in the NBA? No, he isn't. But he's a whole lot better than those two right now. This isn't quite correct though, the thing is MVP was better than Nada or Boxer at their peaks as well. That's just how much skill has progressed over the years. ......MVP was better than Boxer and Nada at their peaks? Do you even know what Starcraft is? Anyway, they were the best in their time because they found certain innovations before anyone else, and happened to have the technical/strategic ability to continue the innovation for however long. Boxer, July, Nada etc were past their primes because they couldn't keep up mentally and physically. Even if they tried to apply themselves 100% to bw again, they don't have the same favorable confluence of factors for success. Their innovations have long become textbook, or even outdated. Not that I'm trying to blackmouth them at all, but I don't think it's realistic to think they'd become very competitive if only they applied themselves.
they were bonjwas for a reason..... your posts are silly they weren't just gimmicky wins from them discovering some unknown truth before others, it's because they were truly the best in multiple ways. Did you ever follow the bw scene or are you just trying to piss people off by saying dumb things about some of the greatest sc players of all time?
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The fuck are you resurrecting a thread that has been dead for six months?
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EPT
