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It's too recent to judge, I think infestors are fine but it might be bias from playing zerg myself.
I feel they bring much more depth to the game, especially in ZvT engagements have become more micro intensive. Most terrans haven't adapted to the new infestor, they have to leapfrog tanks more instead of pushing across the map and sieging all tanks at the same time. They need to get a couple ghosts late game for emp, a lot of zergs keep there infestors clumped up. HT feedback one-shots full energy infestors.
Also keep in mind the gas investement is huge, it's gas not going to upgrades or mutas, terrans need to use that knowledge more, go heavier on tanks for exemple.
The question needs to be asked in a couple of months once more stuff gets figured out.
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I think the missile change needs to come back, more micro FTW
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*takes a drag on a cigarrette*
Start making HT's and ghosts against zerg,
*blows smoke out and walks off*
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You make many valid points in your theorycrafting.
I'm not sure why people cry so much about infestors, seems to be mostly from terran side. I've watched terran streams whining over infestors and it might be from those all the rage is comming. Those games has consisted of going a lot of things (mostly marins and/or marauders) except ghosts vs infestors.
But I've also seen some crazy terrans go ghost vs infestors, EMPing and sniping as if theres no tomorrow and ending up with very good results.
If you check thorzain vs mc game 4 + Show Spoiler + you'll see some crazy emp vs feedback micro, I bet if thorzain wanted to he could pull of the same thing vs a zerg that is investing into heavy infestor instead of mutas.
Same goes for MC, I bet if he wanted he could go templars and feedback infestors the same way he feedback ghosts. (But haven't seen toss complaining about heavy infestor play)
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well, i am a bronz player, and i started to play an infestor based style. I think that the changes made me see that it is easier shut down big army balls, like marines, or zealots.
It gives me a reason to get to hive tech faster, as with lings i need the festors for Anti Air. It gives me a reason to tech up to things i never used be4, to herass and to make game choices that i never considered before. I think nothing wrong of the infestor changes, and i hope they do not change them at all.
Buffing the infestor also makes roach / hydra easier to deal with, as i think in ZvZ many go roach / Hydra, and i was hard to stop before. infestors take down the roaches, and banes, or lings can take the hydras.
So what if ppl adress this as the biggest issue, let them find something to complain about with zerg. I think zerg is not broken at all, and we should concentrate more on the OP colossus, who are cliff walking range 9 helions. with loads more armour.
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On April 26 2011 22:04 The KY wrote:
*takes a drag on a cigarrette*
Start making HT's and ghosts against zerg,
*blows smoke out and walks off*
How can you inhale, then speak without blowing out the smoke ;P
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On April 26 2011 21:49 Ewerstorm wrote:
There's some things I don't like when people compare the energy and blah blah. First of all, the HT moves as slow as a snail, infestors are rather fast and they can burrow. Therefor i'd say it's arguably easier to survive with them. The second point that no one seems to mention is that you actually have to research storm. It's 200 gas, and it takes ages, but every zerg/terran player who compares the two seems to ignore that storm has to be researched, and the CD of warpgates past the first HT you morph in.
Edit: Not saying infestors or ghosts are op just for the reccord, i'm just still really pissed about the KA removal, and no one seems to take those factors into account.
Well if you take that kind of stuff in account let;s mention then that a 2templar that are out of energy can at least do something, transform into an archon wich is by no way a bad unit.
Infestors without energy however are just walking gasstanks, yes they can spit out some infested terrans but those cost energy as well.
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On April 26 2011 22:00 World_Ender wrote:
Yeah as has been stated, I'd rather go up against endless fungals than the incredible plague + lurker/etc micro that was dominating BW for a while. The fact that you cannot move until infestors out of energy or units are dead is annoying, but it just forces you to change your play by scouting ahead and separating key units etc
One key thing to note about ZvT infestor play, is that the terran's hard counter to infestors, Ghosts, must snipe 3 times instead of 2, to counteract the +1 regen infestors have.... Thats 75 energy to kill one unit, might as well EMP, except you only take 100 energy and infestor lives to fungal another day. I really want blizz to address this, I am having problems using ghosts to counter infestors, expecially since cloaked ghosts get insta fungaled by a good zerg who sees the graphical flicker.
Why don't you EMP? E.g. 4 clustered infestors would lose 400 energy to 1 emp, 800 energy with 2 fast emps (bug that dont let you cast 2 fast emps at same place now will be adressed next patch)
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Wasn't the ghost change a consequence of the infestor buffs? Unless you have a lot of infestors, a few ghost can be very efficient in shutting them down.
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On April 26 2011 21:53 RifleCow wrote:
Powerful infestors is good. Makes for interesting games. Infestors are like giant sacks of meat that are easy to kill but can dish out huge damage. Getting only fungal off of an infestor is still not cost effective, you have to keep them alive to kill another day.
In fact, the counters for infestors arn't even being used by terran/toss, ghost and high templar effectively. Basically infestors force this more interesting caster dynamic that was present in sc1 but has so far been on the sidelines in sc2. Maybe we'll even see ravens cast seeker missles on infestors clumps to keep infestor numbers in check.
I don't know about you but I think they should make infestors as powerful as possible so even if there is a direct counter to them you still get them. SV is the defiler counter in SC1, but you still get defilers right....
TLDR: If infestors are too powerful for the currnet metagame thats a good thing. Marine/tank and Collosus/stalker are boring ass compositions and I look forward to the day that we have this marin/tank/ghost/raven TvZ and stalker/zealot/high templar in PvZ.
Please refrain from insulting the science vessel by mentioning it as though it was a equal to the pathetic raven. On the topic, no, infestors arent too powerful as they are now.
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im pretty sure in the post conceriing Idras interview that Idra himself said that everything else of protoss was OP so the infestor buff was nothing in comparison, or something to that effect =P not saying i agree, just saying..
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I think infestors would compare favorably with HTs without the archon ability, with it, it probably tips the hat to HTs. I think it could be argued that infestors as a unit in isolation are OP, but other zerg units are just pretty bad which is why on the whole it's not dominating.
I think many terran, protoss, and even zerg players are way too used to being cavalier with their units and not use to zerg having real threats before broods. The number of times I see terran and protoss players just waltz onto creep and get away with it is absurd and I'm 750 masters.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
I love infestors for those team games where some opponent zerg goes 500000 mutalisks. 4-5 fungals kills them all, and almost always results in the opponent making some comment that makes me smile.
I don't know how I feel about the 4 seconds of keeping units in place. That just feels like a very un-Starcrafty thing to do, but at the same time so are FF's, which I have no problem against. From a Zerg's perspective I love it, but I'm pretty sure I'd be raging at it if I weren't Zerg.
The damage itself isn't a big deal to me - those numbers can be changed easily. It's the holding in place that makes or breaks the spell.
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infestors are absolutely fine
once Protoss and Terran starts using EMP/Feedback against them
and if you didn't notice Blizzard want's us to do exactly that
patch 1.3.3 has two indirect "nerfs" for infestors by buffing ghost and archon
it just seems to me like they want us to use EMP and Feedback
and once Protoss and Terran start doing it there's not much Zerg can do because we can't counter Feedback with EMP and the other way arround
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On April 26 2011 22:07 Holliday wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 22:04 The KY wrote:
*takes a drag on a cigarrette*
Start making HT's and ghosts against zerg,
*blows smoke out and walks off* How can you inhale, then speak without blowing out the smoke ;P
...damn.
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On April 26 2011 21:53 twiitar wrote:
My biggest problem with the new Infestors is that.... Zerg can - if he has eyes - just skip Overseers and fungal your (cloaked) Banshee. And it'll uncloak for the time being fungal'd.
Fair enough, but there's a fairly big risk the Zerg player takes in doing that. If a player can trade skill for economic advantage, balance-wise that's a good thing
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On April 26 2011 22:12 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 22:07 Holliday wrote:On April 26 2011 22:04 The KY wrote:
*takes a drag on a cigarrette*
Start making HT's and ghosts against zerg,
*blows smoke out and walks off* How can you inhale, then speak without blowing out the smoke ;P ...damn.
i know right? ^^
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There's never things as Caster units are too strong.
They make the game better in every aspect of it. BW caster units were ridiculously OP and it's one of the thing who make the game good.
The probleme tho, Infestor buff impact ZvT more than ZvP which wasn't the goal.
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While you can still attack in FG, the infestors can simply cast it and run back. Sure you can have tanks placed properly so that the infestors get tank shots but whats better... losing ~20 supply worth of marine or ~4 supply sacking 2 infestors.
At this point I dont know if its broken but they do seem very powerful to me. PTR 1.3.3 gives the ghosts a slight buff with 200/100 cost and able to spam cast EMP. Guess time will tell how this will all pan out.
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Ghosts are cheaper in terms of gas.
HT have been indirectly buffed by the archon change.
How are these not indirect nerfs to Infestor? I am not whining btw, as I am sure a lot of players will stubbornly not built these units while I keep FG-ing their clumped up death balls.
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EPT
