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On April 25 2011 16:25 Termit wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.
I really hope this is a troll post, because if it isn't then someone has somehow never seen stutter step micro. Marines as fast as speedlings would be so op it would make everyone not playing T quit until it got fixed. Stim marines already are fast and have stupid high dps thanks to their smart targeting system and high rof. Making them able to kite everything would be soooo broken.
T is not UP. MVP is just terran who, like every other member of every other race, thinks his race is up. Sorry fanboys, but that's just how it works. Imo, the game is really well balanced right at this moment, with the possible exception of the Z v P matchup, but even that seems fine if people would just get away from roach/hydra/infestor, because it seriously NEVER works.
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On April 25 2011 20:45 Piski wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings. By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg. Have you actually ever tried to kill stalkers or marines that are controlled by a decent player? With even a decent stutter micro those marines just don't die no matter how many lings you make.
Yeah,what you don't actually realize is how good that Terran needs to be. People don't realize how good the top Terrans actually are. MVP's multitasking is godlike ,and he actually needs it ,compared to Protoss players.Microing your drops while macroing in base ,while sending another drop ,while poking with your main army isn't really spamming W ,click and chronoboost, E.
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On April 25 2011 20:57 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 16:25 Termit wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings. I really hope this is a troll post, because if it isn't then someone has somehow never seen stutter step micro. Marines as fast as speedlings would be so op it would make everyone not playing T quit until it got fixed. Stim marines already are fast and have stupid high dps thanks to their smart targeting system and high rof. Making them able to kite everything would be soooo broken. T is not UP. MVP is just terran who, like every other member of every other race, thinks his race is up. Sorry fanboys, but that's just how it works. Imo, the game is really well balanced right at this moment, with the possible exception of the Z v P matchup, but even that seems fine if people would just get away from roach/hydra/infestor, because it seriously NEVER works.
That is clearly a troll post , I can't imagine why you would think otherwise. Every Terran victory vs P I see is a shitty timing attack or purely bad Protoss army composition and play. So yes, MVP is right. You wanna know why MC lost vs Thorzain? GSL Crossfire timing push ,that's why. I can't even remember the last time I've seen a Terran win lategame vs the right Protoss army composition( no , ofc not phoenix colossus).
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On April 25 2011 20:59 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 20:45 Piski wrote:On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings. By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg. Have you actually ever tried to kill stalkers or marines that are controlled by a decent player? With even a decent stutter micro those marines just don't die no matter how many lings you make. Yeah,what you don't actually realize is how good that Terran needs to be. People don't realize how good the top Terrans actually are. MVP's multitasking is godlike ,and he actually needs it ,compared to Protoss players.Microing your drops while macroing in base ,while sending another drop ,while poking with your main army isn't really spamming W ,click and chronoboost, E.
I'm not saying they are bad. I'm saying that stutter micro is not hard :o I play random and kiting slow lings are easy as hell. I was just replying to the guy who was saying ling speed should go to lair.
Edit: Typo
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On April 25 2011 20:57 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 16:25 Termit wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings. I really hope this is a troll post, because if it isn't then someone has somehow never seen stutter step micro. Marines as fast as speedlings would be so op it would make everyone not playing T quit until it got fixed. Stim marines already are fast and have stupid high dps thanks to their smart targeting system and high rof. Making them able to kite everything would be soooo broken. T is not UP. MVP is just terran who, like every other member of every other race, thinks his race is up. Sorry fanboys, but that's just how it works. Imo, the game is really well balanced right at this moment, with the possible exception of the Z v P matchup, but even that seems fine if people would just get away from roach/hydra/infestor, because it seriously NEVER works.
The thing about balance is that it's easy to see the strengths of your opponents race but hard to see their weaknesses. And vice versa for your own race. Or maybe that's just the way people approach it.
Regardless; as an example (bad) Protoss players will forever be heard to complain that marauders are meant to be countered by zealots but the OP conc shells (which come for basically free and so quickly!) mean that zealots never get close enough to do any damage.
What they don't see is the terrans perspective, when he has a bunch of marauders and the protoss has mixed in a whole bunch of zealots into his gateway army. The terran sighs, as he realises he's going to have to kite those fuckers for about a mile because marauders do fuck all damage to zealots, while stalkers get free hits. And if he has good forcefields, well fuck that. God, the terran says to himself, protoss is so OP.
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Damn Artosis, you sure know how to start a balance thread ! 
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Great interviews Artosis! But seriously that door knob was annoying the hell out of me, can someone buy them a new one please?
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i love you artosis ♥♥
great interviews!
especially nestea :D
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On April 25 2011 21:28 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 20:57 Sm3agol wrote:On April 25 2011 16:25 Termit wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings. I really hope this is a troll post, because if it isn't then someone has somehow never seen stutter step micro. Marines as fast as speedlings would be so op it would make everyone not playing T quit until it got fixed. Stim marines already are fast and have stupid high dps thanks to their smart targeting system and high rof. Making them able to kite everything would be soooo broken. T is not UP. MVP is just terran who, like every other member of every other race, thinks his race is up. Sorry fanboys, but that's just how it works. Imo, the game is really well balanced right at this moment, with the possible exception of the Z v P matchup, but even that seems fine if people would just get away from roach/hydra/infestor, because it seriously NEVER works. The thing about balance is that it's easy to see the strengths of your opponents race but hard to see their weaknesses. And vice versa for your own race. Or maybe that's just the way people approach it. Regardless; as an example (bad) Protoss players will forever be heard to complain that marauders are meant to be countered by zealots but the OP conc shells (which come for basically free and so quickly!) mean that zealots never get close enough to do any damage. What they don't see is the terrans perspective, when he has a bunch of marauders and the protoss has mixed in a whole bunch of zealots into his gateway army. The terran sighs, as he realises he's going to have to kite those fuckers for about a mile because marauders do fuck all damage to zealots, while stalkers get free hits. And if he has good forcefields, well fuck that. God, the terran says to himself, protoss is so OP.
It's the infamous rock paper scissor logic.
I am rock
Rock is underpowered
Paper is overpowered
Scissor is fine
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On April 25 2011 17:41 Wolf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings. By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg. How could zerg win anything if speed required lair? With halfdecent marine/stalker micro zerg would literally never be able to stop those early pressure attacks.
Spanishwa went like 5-2 in grand master using the day9 monday funday of building no more than 12 lings, no hydras, no roaches, no mutas (I think those were all the stipulations). It's all about sim city using queens/spine crawlers as walls. They may not have a "burst" but with transfuse their sustained DPS can generally out last early attacks. That given all ins such as marine/scv will most likely demolish it, but lings have trouble with that aswell
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Great interviews! TY so much for this Artosis! 
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On April 25 2011 20:05 Thezzy wrote:
Macro wise Terran has a hard time reinforcing at a distance.
Protoss has Warp Gates and Zerg has the ability to stockpile Larvae as well as Creep/High speed units.
Tech switching is IMO also the hardest for Terran, Zerg can switch all their Larvae instantly and Protoss can still warp in either mass Stalker or mass HT.
Terran does have the advantage of making it somewhat easier to keep your money consistantly low as your production is constant and smooth.
Large maps are only a problem due to the fact the two big meaty units (Siege Tanks and Thors) have such immobility that large maps only further discourage their use and limit their raw firepower.
Colossi retain cliff walking and range 9 while mobile and Zerg have the fastest units around.
Perhaps Terran could experiment more with moving their production buildings, as they can land anywhere, but I haven't given it a go myself (you'd end up with a lot of addons).
Still, I love to play Terran and don't really care too much what others say, I'll keep playing Terran all the same.
P.S. I do find it amusing when players complain about Terran being an A-move army/race when they have the most abilities and micro required on a per unit basis.
Zerg is the A move race, almost all their units have no abilities and were designed to A move. The little used infestor had huge micro maybe that's why Zerg so scared to use it .afraid to micro.
Anyway I'd say Toss is pretty micro intensive too with Grav beams, FF, blink, HT's abilities etc to compare with siege and un siege stimming Strike cannon cloak and so forth. Add that to non MBS spam & rally but rather have to be looking at exact pylon you want units and click click click click different location puts toss over the top.
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On April 25 2011 23:17 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 20:05 Thezzy wrote:
Macro wise Terran has a hard time reinforcing at a distance.
Protoss has Warp Gates and Zerg has the ability to stockpile Larvae as well as Creep/High speed units.
Tech switching is IMO also the hardest for Terran, Zerg can switch all their Larvae instantly and Protoss can still warp in either mass Stalker or mass HT.
Terran does have the advantage of making it somewhat easier to keep your money consistantly low as your production is constant and smooth.
Large maps are only a problem due to the fact the two big meaty units (Siege Tanks and Thors) have such immobility that large maps only further discourage their use and limit their raw firepower.
Colossi retain cliff walking and range 9 while mobile and Zerg have the fastest units around.
Perhaps Terran could experiment more with moving their production buildings, as they can land anywhere, but I haven't given it a go myself (you'd end up with a lot of addons).
Still, I love to play Terran and don't really care too much what others say, I'll keep playing Terran all the same.
P.S. I do find it amusing when players complain about Terran being an A-move army/race when they have the most abilities and micro required on a per unit basis. Zerg is the A move race, almost all their units have no abilities and were designed to A move. The little used infestor had huge micro maybe that's why Zerg so scared to use it .afraid to micro. Anyway I'd say Toss is pretty micro intensive too with Grav beams, FF, blink, HT's abilities etc to compare with siege and un siege stimming Strike cannon cloak and so forth. Add that to non MBS spam & rally but rather have to be looking at exact pylon you want units and click click click click different location puts toss over the top.
Grav beams, FF, blink are not micro intensive, HT's are however.
The entire Zerg race is micro intensive in terms of microing in battles on curves.
Infestors < Tanks
Infestors are 150 gas each, mutas are 100 each, infestors are huge and can get snipped easily, don't see the problem really.
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Damn, just when I was thinking of switching to Terran... I hear they suck lol. Still think I'm gonna do it, the playstyle fits me more.
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On April 25 2011 23:17 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 20:05 Thezzy wrote:
Macro wise Terran has a hard time reinforcing at a distance.
Protoss has Warp Gates and Zerg has the ability to stockpile Larvae as well as Creep/High speed units.
Tech switching is IMO also the hardest for Terran, Zerg can switch all their Larvae instantly and Protoss can still warp in either mass Stalker or mass HT.
Terran does have the advantage of making it somewhat easier to keep your money consistantly low as your production is constant and smooth.
Large maps are only a problem due to the fact the two big meaty units (Siege Tanks and Thors) have such immobility that large maps only further discourage their use and limit their raw firepower.
Colossi retain cliff walking and range 9 while mobile and Zerg have the fastest units around.
Perhaps Terran could experiment more with moving their production buildings, as they can land anywhere, but I haven't given it a go myself (you'd end up with a lot of addons).
Still, I love to play Terran and don't really care too much what others say, I'll keep playing Terran all the same.
P.S. I do find it amusing when players complain about Terran being an A-move army/race when they have the most abilities and micro required on a per unit basis. Zerg is the A move race, almost all their units have no abilities and were designed to A move. The little used infestor had huge micro maybe that's why Zerg so scared to use it .afraid to micro. Anyway I'd say Toss is pretty micro intensive too with Grav beams, FF, blink, HT's abilities etc to compare with siege and un siege stimming Strike cannon cloak and so forth. Add that to non MBS spam & rally but rather have to be looking at exact pylon you want units and click click click click different location puts toss over the top.
Toss is pretty micro intensive... Seriously, protoss is all about refining build order and things like that.
Zerg units have no abilities... true but they also have the suckiest range, the lowest hp/unit cost, so their army is the biggest and need a bigger area to maximise their damage: all in all, you do not micro unit by unit, but army positionning, composition, flank, is way more important with zerg than any race.
A thing that you should not know since you play protoss and protoss do not care about that, with 6 range units like stalkers, sentries to control the space, and colossi to a move and kill shitload of units with no micro at all.
On April 25 2011 21:52 Ipp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 17:41 Wolf wrote:On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings. By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg. How could zerg win anything if speed required lair? With halfdecent marine/stalker micro zerg would literally never be able to stop those early pressure attacks. Spanishwa went like 5-2 in grand master using the day9 monday funday of building no more than 12 lings, no hydras, no roaches, no mutas (I think those were all the stipulations). It's all about sim city using queens/spine crawlers as walls. They may not have a "burst" but with transfuse their sustained DPS can generally out last early attacks. That given all ins such as marine/scv will most likely demolish it, but lings have trouble with that aswell
That's because the build is new. They were just shocked to see a zerg sacrifying his maccro and agressive capacities in order to tech.
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Thanks for the great videos. I have to ask though... why do you even check the bathrooms?! lol
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On April 25 2011 23:24 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 23:17 tdt wrote:On April 25 2011 20:05 Thezzy wrote:
Macro wise Terran has a hard time reinforcing at a distance.
Protoss has Warp Gates and Zerg has the ability to stockpile Larvae as well as Creep/High speed units.
Tech switching is IMO also the hardest for Terran, Zerg can switch all their Larvae instantly and Protoss can still warp in either mass Stalker or mass HT.
Terran does have the advantage of making it somewhat easier to keep your money consistantly low as your production is constant and smooth.
Large maps are only a problem due to the fact the two big meaty units (Siege Tanks and Thors) have such immobility that large maps only further discourage their use and limit their raw firepower.
Colossi retain cliff walking and range 9 while mobile and Zerg have the fastest units around.
Perhaps Terran could experiment more with moving their production buildings, as they can land anywhere, but I haven't given it a go myself (you'd end up with a lot of addons).
Still, I love to play Terran and don't really care too much what others say, I'll keep playing Terran all the same.
P.S. I do find it amusing when players complain about Terran being an A-move army/race when they have the most abilities and micro required on a per unit basis. Zerg is the A move race, almost all their units have no abilities and were designed to A move. The little used infestor had huge micro maybe that's why Zerg so scared to use it .afraid to micro. Anyway I'd say Toss is pretty micro intensive too with Grav beams, FF, blink, HT's abilities etc to compare with siege and un siege stimming Strike cannon cloak and so forth. Add that to non MBS spam & rally but rather have to be looking at exact pylon you want units and click click click click different location puts toss over the top. Toss is pretty micro intensive... Seriously, protoss is all about refining build order and things like that. Zerg units have no abilities... true but they also have the suckiest range, the lowest hp/unit cost, so their army is the biggest and need a bigger area to maximise their damage: all in all, you do not micro unit by unit, but army positionning, composition, flank, is way more important with zerg than any race. A thing that you should not know since you play protoss and protoss do not care about that, with 6 range units like stalkers, sentries to control the space, and colossi to a move and kill shitload of units with no micro at all. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:52 Ipp wrote:On April 25 2011 17:41 Wolf wrote:On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings. By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg. How could zerg win anything if speed required lair? With halfdecent marine/stalker micro zerg would literally never be able to stop those early pressure attacks. Spanishwa went like 5-2 in grand master using the day9 monday funday of building no more than 12 lings, no hydras, no roaches, no mutas (I think those were all the stipulations). It's all about sim city using queens/spine crawlers as walls. They may not have a "burst" but with transfuse their sustained DPS can generally out last early attacks. That given all ins such as marine/scv will most likely demolish it, but lings have trouble with that aswell That's because the build is new. They were just shocked to see a zerg sacrifying his maccro and agressive capacities in order to tech.
Yup smaller the better for us, bigger area better for you. ( BTW I play both Z&P only played Terran in single player run through) Problem I have with Zerg is lack of early scout where you can't predict anything and you're basically a sitting duck reacting. 
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Sick interviews, Thanks Artosis !!! <3
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Awesome interviews.
It's hard to tell due to translation, but it seems like the players comment on balance, but not with whine. It sounds more of a "well this is the way it is" kind of thing and they just accept it. I really love that attitude.
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On April 24 2011 13:57 SilverPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 13:56 SwirlQ wrote:On April 24 2011 12:28 Djeez wrote:On April 24 2011 12:21 soupchicken wrote:On April 24 2011 12:18 infinity2k9 wrote:On April 24 2011 12:04 SilverPotato wrote:On April 24 2011 12:00 Mailing wrote:
Weakest? Hardly.
Maybe hardest to play, but even that is stretching it. I'm sorry but it's not beta anymore... Yeah T is much harder than zerg and especially toss. How? Mechanically? Zerg is clearly harder mechanically, just the nature of the race and balancing drone/unit production. I play Zerg... and even I think that Terran mechanics are the hardest to do perfectly. But then again I just might be just so used to Zerg that I don't realize how difficult it can be. Agreed. Terran mechanics and micro is way harder than Zerg imo. I think that Zerg requires a better game sense/game knowledge/timings though. And toss? ez read my mind. formula for success with toss Good BO + Good FF = win Don't forget the ability to move around an automatically formed death ball!
Yeah, because having stalkers tanking damage b/c they are surrounding zealots with immortals in the back where they can't shoot is efficient. ?!?
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EPT
