• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:04
CEST 14:04
KST 21:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results1Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions Flashes ASL S21 Ro8 Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Semifinals B [ASL21] Semifinals A [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1874 users

"Terran is the weakest race" - MVP, IM House Tour - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 Next All
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
April 25 2011 15:50 GMT
#521
On April 24 2011 14:00 Smigi wrote:
Thanks artosis for the interviews.

as far as balance goes, I don't think their is necessarily a 'weakest' race right now.
However, I do believe their is a strongest race, which is Protoss.

I personally think Protoss's warpgate mechanic is stupid. The ability to make units wherever theres a powerfield is outrageous. Protoss have amazing mobility and their all-in timings are able to be reinforced almost instantly with warpgate. I had the same opinion of warpgate since phase 1 of the beta, and I have the same one now. Once again, I'm not a game designer or on the balance team.. but this is my opinion.
Aside from the warpgate mechanic, I don't think theres anything that stands out as a HUGE issue. Although forcefields and collusi are getting a lot of heat lately.



Protoss would have no early to mid-game timing attacks at all if not for warpgate due to the inefficiency of their units. P successful early aggression against Terran often leads to only a slight edge because SCVs + marines kill gateway units so well. Early heavy sentry FF use being the only exception here... and heavy sentry is a very specific build that is scoutable. Not like you can warp in sentries at the last second and get any use out of them b/c they need full energy.

Early and mid-game Zerg can beat gateway units with any ground unit from zergling to hydra as long as he picks the one he can afford to build and starts building them soon enough. The exception being heavy sentry builds... again easily scoutable and nullified by burrow or overlord upgrades to pick up units. So the only real problem in the Zerg's case is knowing when to build the units and not overdrone. AKA, greedy Zergs aren't doing well against timings or all-ins. Protoss attacks that result in 50% unit loss is a guaranteed game loss if Zerg's econ survived. Flip side is Zerg all-ins are fairly easy to recover against due to the ability to pump drones after a semi-failure, with a high chance of getting back in the game.
Juanald
Profile Joined February 2011
United States354 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 15:54:56
April 25 2011 15:54 GMT
#522
On April 25 2011 20:59 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 20:45 Piski wrote:
On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.

By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg.


Have you actually ever tried to kill stalkers or marines that are controlled by a decent player? With even a decent stutter micro those marines just don't die no matter how many lings you make.


Yeah,what you don't actually realize is how good that Terran needs to be. People don't realize how good the top Terrans actually are. MVP's multitasking is godlike ,and he actually needs it ,compared to Protoss players.Microing your drops while macroing in base ,while sending another drop ,while poking with your main army isn't really spamming W ,click and chronoboost, E.



wow u cant be serius.. and ur saying zealot/stalker isnt hard to micro LOL!? what about forcedfeilds?...give protoss a try and ull find urself pushing ur multitask skillz to the limit. stop wining about balance cmon man

~Juanald

User was warned for this post
"hey it could happen!" ~ angels n the outfield
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
April 25 2011 16:11 GMT
#523
On April 26 2011 00:54 Juanald wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 20:59 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
On April 25 2011 20:45 Piski wrote:
On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.

By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg.


Have you actually ever tried to kill stalkers or marines that are controlled by a decent player? With even a decent stutter micro those marines just don't die no matter how many lings you make.


Yeah,what you don't actually realize is how good that Terran needs to be. People don't realize how good the top Terrans actually are. MVP's multitasking is godlike ,and he actually needs it ,compared to Protoss players.Microing your drops while macroing in base ,while sending another drop ,while poking with your main army isn't really spamming W ,click and chronoboost, E.



wow u cant be serius.. and ur saying zealot/stalker isnt hard to micro LOL!? what about forcedfeilds?...give protoss a try and ull find urself pushing ur multitask skillz to the limit. stop wining about balance cmon man

~Juanald


MVP is the highest KeSPA ranked player to move to SC2. As far as mechanics goes, hes really a player who's multitasking ability cannot help him in SC2, which unfortunately was what made him a semi decent player at BroodWar. Pretty sure he could do all of his macro/micro with one hand.

Although a little exaggerated, what I stated above is exactly the problem MVP is having. He simply can't differentiate himself between slower players with multitasking/macro/micro.

Of course MKP seems like an exception but I do believe it has more to do with his starsense and aggression than his micro ability, he also only uses 1 group for buildings and 1 group for units which isn't optimal.

Then you look at Nestea who was a coach and 2v2 player, and MC who exploits key timing windows, yes he has good micro but then I think it is his starsense and flexibility that wins him games even if his forcefields are good.

Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
anthraxalfa
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden26 Posts
April 25 2011 17:00 GMT
#524
On April 24 2011 22:47 Vidoc wrote:
When is there a Tasteless/Artosis house tour lol? =D

Oh god yes, give me please!
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
April 25 2011 20:20 GMT
#525
On April 25 2011 21:52 Ipp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 17:41 Wolf wrote:
On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.

By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg.


How could zerg win anything if speed required lair? With halfdecent marine/stalker micro zerg would literally never be able to stop those early pressure attacks.


Spanishwa went like 5-2 in grand master using the day9 monday funday of building no more than 12 lings, no hydras, no roaches, no mutas (I think those were all the stipulations). It's all about sim city using queens/spine crawlers as walls. They may not have a "burst" but with transfuse their sustained DPS can generally out last early attacks. That given all ins such as marine/scv will most likely demolish it, but lings have trouble with that aswell


Saw it. I haven't hit Spanishiwa on the ladder yet, but when I do, I'm going to have a lot of fun!
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
Jimbo77
Profile Joined March 2011
139 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 22:01:55
April 25 2011 21:11 GMT
#526
On April 25 2011 20:45 Piski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.

By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg.


Have you actually ever tried to kill stalkers or marines that are controlled by a decent player? With even a decent stutter micro those marines just don't die no matter how many lings you make.

Zerglings do not kill decent stalker play, are you serious here? They really should? Try to use roach instead.
And again, speedlings speed on creep is just a joke. Neither ST nor Colossi have appropriate attack speed to be able to stop decent amount of zlings on creep - T1 unit.
Since you have no unit-select limit it's just -> select all zlings->aMove-> all the rest owns by muta...
Hwanni
Profile Joined January 2009
Korea (South)37 Posts
April 25 2011 22:29 GMT
#527
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.
e-STRO GO! GO!
TheBrofessor
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada429 Posts
April 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#528
On April 26 2011 07:29 Hwanni wrote:
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.



Thanks for translating Hwanni!
doihy
Profile Joined August 2010
668 Posts
April 25 2011 22:49 GMT
#529
On April 26 2011 07:29 Hwanni wrote:
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.


Please do Slayers next!
ShivaN
Profile Joined January 2007
United States933 Posts
April 25 2011 23:03 GMT
#530
On April 26 2011 07:49 doihy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 07:29 Hwanni wrote:
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.


Please do Slayers next!

Oh, please do! Who wouldn't love to see an Artosis interview with none other than Boxer? Makes me drool thinking about it..
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
April 25 2011 23:41 GMT
#531
Its really the larger maps that give terran a hard time. But that makes it in a sense exciting to play. The larger the map the more skill you need as a terran player. MVP was just stating that since protoss units are so mobile and warp ins can occur almost anywhere map size does not impact them and of course zergs love big maps. So really the biggest nerf to terran wasn't all these units, productiosn whatever nerfs it was the larger maps. Had blizzard just listened to the players for once and made larger maps we wouldn't have this discussion.
ItsMeDomLee
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2732 Posts
April 26 2011 04:18 GMT
#532
On April 26 2011 07:49 doihy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 07:29 Hwanni wrote:
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.


Please do Slayers next!


Save the best for last IMO. Do Fou - TSL - oGs and THEN SlayerS
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
April 26 2011 04:31 GMT
#533
Thank you Artosis! This content is impressive - loving how the metagame keeps shifting hehe.



As mentioned above - cannot wait for SlayerS!
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
MUFFINS1
Profile Joined March 2011
United States533 Posts
April 26 2011 04:51 GMT
#534
Do a SlayerS house tour please!!!
Interviews of BOXER, Alicia, MMA, and Ryung would be awsome
hi
I)etox
Profile Joined April 2011
1240 Posts
April 26 2011 05:04 GMT
#535
I will give you imaginary internet cookies if you do slayers house tour <3 The Emperor in his natural habitat xD
MUFFINS1
Profile Joined March 2011
United States533 Posts
April 26 2011 05:06 GMT
#536
To all you noobs getting mad about the MVP comment on Terran balance he is talking about GSL maps specifically. As we all the know the GSL maps are huge in comparison to the ladder maps and have easily defend able naturals and almost always force a macro game. Terran MUST HARASS or at least pressure to stay even and if u don't know this then u are a sad noob, especially against zerg. Unless u are relying on a 1 base all in or a GOODY style mech 2 base all in etc. u will lose most likely in a macro game. Protoss, the size of the map doesn't matter cause they can warp for early game pressure then fall back to form their death balls. Zerg obviously benefits from large maps with the open center that zergs love to fight in and the multiple expansions and the fact that they are safe from early game rushes and all ins especially with the stim nerf.
hi
GhettoSheep
Profile Joined August 2008
United States150 Posts
April 26 2011 05:09 GMT
#537
On April 25 2011 08:05 Jimbo77 wrote:
Actually it's interesting, can someone remember how it was in Broodwar? Did map size affect the game balance of any of three races or it was absolutely even for all of three independently of map size?
If the last, well, it's one more evidence that BW is balanced game, contrary SC2 which is not.


...Maps were used as balance patches in BW

There were no patches, so new maps were made to even out the balance of the game. So yes I would say map design is incredibly important.
Mitsuwa
Profile Joined July 2010
United States793 Posts
April 26 2011 05:10 GMT
#538
Thank you so much for this artosis and hwanni. I love these they are so interesting to see how the pros live and how they practice and get their insight into the games. Were you guys in a room between a hallway and a bathroom or something? ALl those people seemed like they urgently needed to get into that room haha. I agree with the other posters. Slayers would be awesome to see. That or ogs :D
Perchloric
Profile Joined March 2011
Brazil163 Posts
April 28 2011 20:30 GMT
#539
IM doesen't have sponsors?! That's rough.
hi im new
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany150 Posts
April 28 2011 20:35 GMT
#540
i am fucking sick of every tournament being only terrans. it's always tvt semifinals. ALWAYS.

while i really like tvt and it's one of my favorite matchups it's starting to get old.
who really enjoys watching at least 3 tvt finals every day. where are the zergs and protosses? where? i see only terrans. fucking boring.

how can anyone honestly believe that terran is somehow the weakest race with shit like that going on every day. EVERY weekly cup EVERY day is almost always 4 terrans in semi finals and we see tvt tvt tvt tvt tvt

I
AM
FUCKING
SICK
OF
THIS
SHIT


honestly
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 566
TKL 155
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 32035
Calm 5658
Sea 4171
firebathero 1371
Jaedong 1217
Horang2 1138
Hyuk 445
EffOrt 343
BeSt 289
ggaemo 238
[ Show more ]
actioN 226
Soulkey 204
scan(afreeca) 173
Light 163
Liquid`Ret 81
ZerO 79
ToSsGirL 74
hero 68
Rush 60
Mind 59
910 37
Sea.KH 30
Backho 27
Shinee 25
Sexy 23
Shine 21
Free 17
zelot 16
Barracks 15
soO 14
yabsab 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Sacsri 9
Icarus 6
JulyZerg 6
Terrorterran 5
Last 0
Dota 2
Gorgc4606
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2783
markeloff154
allub127
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King101
Westballz19
Other Games
gofns19556
singsing2414
B2W.Neo625
DeMusliM398
byalli331
crisheroes277
Lowko265
monkeys_forever129
XcaliburYe49
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL33250
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 60
• Adnapsc2 20
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• escodisco2239
• iopq 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1143
Upcoming Events
OSC
56m
Big Brain Bouts
3h 56m
sebesdes vs Iba
Percival vs YoungYakov
Reynor vs GgMaChine
Korean StarCraft League
14h 56m
RSL Revival
21h 56m
Clem vs Rogue
Bunny vs Lambo
IPSL
1d 3h
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
1d 6h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
GSL
1d 19h
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
2 days
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-14
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.