• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:40
CEST 12:40
KST 19:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202526RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me)
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Corsair Pursuit Micro? Pro gamer house photos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread BWCL Season 63 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 745 users

"Terran is the weakest race" - MVP, IM House Tour - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 Next All
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
April 25 2011 15:50 GMT
#521
On April 24 2011 14:00 Smigi wrote:
Thanks artosis for the interviews.

as far as balance goes, I don't think their is necessarily a 'weakest' race right now.
However, I do believe their is a strongest race, which is Protoss.

I personally think Protoss's warpgate mechanic is stupid. The ability to make units wherever theres a powerfield is outrageous. Protoss have amazing mobility and their all-in timings are able to be reinforced almost instantly with warpgate. I had the same opinion of warpgate since phase 1 of the beta, and I have the same one now. Once again, I'm not a game designer or on the balance team.. but this is my opinion.
Aside from the warpgate mechanic, I don't think theres anything that stands out as a HUGE issue. Although forcefields and collusi are getting a lot of heat lately.



Protoss would have no early to mid-game timing attacks at all if not for warpgate due to the inefficiency of their units. P successful early aggression against Terran often leads to only a slight edge because SCVs + marines kill gateway units so well. Early heavy sentry FF use being the only exception here... and heavy sentry is a very specific build that is scoutable. Not like you can warp in sentries at the last second and get any use out of them b/c they need full energy.

Early and mid-game Zerg can beat gateway units with any ground unit from zergling to hydra as long as he picks the one he can afford to build and starts building them soon enough. The exception being heavy sentry builds... again easily scoutable and nullified by burrow or overlord upgrades to pick up units. So the only real problem in the Zerg's case is knowing when to build the units and not overdrone. AKA, greedy Zergs aren't doing well against timings or all-ins. Protoss attacks that result in 50% unit loss is a guaranteed game loss if Zerg's econ survived. Flip side is Zerg all-ins are fairly easy to recover against due to the ability to pump drones after a semi-failure, with a high chance of getting back in the game.
Juanald
Profile Joined February 2011
United States354 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 15:54:56
April 25 2011 15:54 GMT
#522
On April 25 2011 20:59 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 20:45 Piski wrote:
On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.

By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg.


Have you actually ever tried to kill stalkers or marines that are controlled by a decent player? With even a decent stutter micro those marines just don't die no matter how many lings you make.


Yeah,what you don't actually realize is how good that Terran needs to be. People don't realize how good the top Terrans actually are. MVP's multitasking is godlike ,and he actually needs it ,compared to Protoss players.Microing your drops while macroing in base ,while sending another drop ,while poking with your main army isn't really spamming W ,click and chronoboost, E.



wow u cant be serius.. and ur saying zealot/stalker isnt hard to micro LOL!? what about forcedfeilds?...give protoss a try and ull find urself pushing ur multitask skillz to the limit. stop wining about balance cmon man

~Juanald

User was warned for this post
"hey it could happen!" ~ angels n the outfield
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
April 25 2011 16:11 GMT
#523
On April 26 2011 00:54 Juanald wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 20:59 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
On April 25 2011 20:45 Piski wrote:
On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.

By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg.


Have you actually ever tried to kill stalkers or marines that are controlled by a decent player? With even a decent stutter micro those marines just don't die no matter how many lings you make.


Yeah,what you don't actually realize is how good that Terran needs to be. People don't realize how good the top Terrans actually are. MVP's multitasking is godlike ,and he actually needs it ,compared to Protoss players.Microing your drops while macroing in base ,while sending another drop ,while poking with your main army isn't really spamming W ,click and chronoboost, E.



wow u cant be serius.. and ur saying zealot/stalker isnt hard to micro LOL!? what about forcedfeilds?...give protoss a try and ull find urself pushing ur multitask skillz to the limit. stop wining about balance cmon man

~Juanald


MVP is the highest KeSPA ranked player to move to SC2. As far as mechanics goes, hes really a player who's multitasking ability cannot help him in SC2, which unfortunately was what made him a semi decent player at BroodWar. Pretty sure he could do all of his macro/micro with one hand.

Although a little exaggerated, what I stated above is exactly the problem MVP is having. He simply can't differentiate himself between slower players with multitasking/macro/micro.

Of course MKP seems like an exception but I do believe it has more to do with his starsense and aggression than his micro ability, he also only uses 1 group for buildings and 1 group for units which isn't optimal.

Then you look at Nestea who was a coach and 2v2 player, and MC who exploits key timing windows, yes he has good micro but then I think it is his starsense and flexibility that wins him games even if his forcefields are good.

Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
anthraxalfa
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden26 Posts
April 25 2011 17:00 GMT
#524
On April 24 2011 22:47 Vidoc wrote:
When is there a Tasteless/Artosis house tour lol? =D

Oh god yes, give me please!
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
April 25 2011 20:20 GMT
#525
On April 25 2011 21:52 Ipp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 17:41 Wolf wrote:
On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.

By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg.


How could zerg win anything if speed required lair? With halfdecent marine/stalker micro zerg would literally never be able to stop those early pressure attacks.


Spanishwa went like 5-2 in grand master using the day9 monday funday of building no more than 12 lings, no hydras, no roaches, no mutas (I think those were all the stipulations). It's all about sim city using queens/spine crawlers as walls. They may not have a "burst" but with transfuse their sustained DPS can generally out last early attacks. That given all ins such as marine/scv will most likely demolish it, but lings have trouble with that aswell


Saw it. I haven't hit Spanishiwa on the ladder yet, but when I do, I'm going to have a lot of fun!
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
Jimbo77
Profile Joined March 2011
139 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 22:01:55
April 25 2011 21:11 GMT
#526
On April 25 2011 20:45 Piski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 17:28 Jimbo77 wrote:
They should boost the speed of Marines so they have the same speed as speedlings.

By the way, zerglings speed available right from the Spawning Pool without Lair-required is as hilarious as if stim did not require techlab. Also speedlings speed at creep is just a joke in my opinion, how tremendous it is. Obviously there is someone in blizz that adore zerg.


Have you actually ever tried to kill stalkers or marines that are controlled by a decent player? With even a decent stutter micro those marines just don't die no matter how many lings you make.

Zerglings do not kill decent stalker play, are you serious here? They really should? Try to use roach instead.
And again, speedlings speed on creep is just a joke. Neither ST nor Colossi have appropriate attack speed to be able to stop decent amount of zlings on creep - T1 unit.
Since you have no unit-select limit it's just -> select all zlings->aMove-> all the rest owns by muta...
Hwanni
Profile Joined January 2009
Korea (South)37 Posts
April 25 2011 22:29 GMT
#527
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.
e-STRO GO! GO!
TheBrofessor
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada429 Posts
April 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#528
On April 26 2011 07:29 Hwanni wrote:
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.



Thanks for translating Hwanni!
doihy
Profile Joined August 2010
668 Posts
April 25 2011 22:49 GMT
#529
On April 26 2011 07:29 Hwanni wrote:
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.


Please do Slayers next!
ShivaN
Profile Joined January 2007
United States933 Posts
April 25 2011 23:03 GMT
#530
On April 26 2011 07:49 doihy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 07:29 Hwanni wrote:
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.


Please do Slayers next!

Oh, please do! Who wouldn't love to see an Artosis interview with none other than Boxer? Makes me drool thinking about it..
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
April 25 2011 23:41 GMT
#531
Its really the larger maps that give terran a hard time. But that makes it in a sense exciting to play. The larger the map the more skill you need as a terran player. MVP was just stating that since protoss units are so mobile and warp ins can occur almost anywhere map size does not impact them and of course zergs love big maps. So really the biggest nerf to terran wasn't all these units, productiosn whatever nerfs it was the larger maps. Had blizzard just listened to the players for once and made larger maps we wouldn't have this discussion.
ItsMeDomLee
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2732 Posts
April 26 2011 04:18 GMT
#532
On April 26 2011 07:49 doihy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 07:29 Hwanni wrote:
Thanks for watching follks.

haha I was trolling Greg cause we(Artosis, Tasteless, and I) always miss him in Korea. haha

well we will get more interviews for you guys thanks for comments as always.


Please do Slayers next!


Save the best for last IMO. Do Fou - TSL - oGs and THEN SlayerS
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
April 26 2011 04:31 GMT
#533
Thank you Artosis! This content is impressive - loving how the metagame keeps shifting hehe.



As mentioned above - cannot wait for SlayerS!
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
MUFFINS1
Profile Joined March 2011
United States533 Posts
April 26 2011 04:51 GMT
#534
Do a SlayerS house tour please!!!
Interviews of BOXER, Alicia, MMA, and Ryung would be awsome
hi
I)etox
Profile Joined April 2011
1240 Posts
April 26 2011 05:04 GMT
#535
I will give you imaginary internet cookies if you do slayers house tour <3 The Emperor in his natural habitat xD
MUFFINS1
Profile Joined March 2011
United States533 Posts
April 26 2011 05:06 GMT
#536
To all you noobs getting mad about the MVP comment on Terran balance he is talking about GSL maps specifically. As we all the know the GSL maps are huge in comparison to the ladder maps and have easily defend able naturals and almost always force a macro game. Terran MUST HARASS or at least pressure to stay even and if u don't know this then u are a sad noob, especially against zerg. Unless u are relying on a 1 base all in or a GOODY style mech 2 base all in etc. u will lose most likely in a macro game. Protoss, the size of the map doesn't matter cause they can warp for early game pressure then fall back to form their death balls. Zerg obviously benefits from large maps with the open center that zergs love to fight in and the multiple expansions and the fact that they are safe from early game rushes and all ins especially with the stim nerf.
hi
GhettoSheep
Profile Joined August 2008
United States150 Posts
April 26 2011 05:09 GMT
#537
On April 25 2011 08:05 Jimbo77 wrote:
Actually it's interesting, can someone remember how it was in Broodwar? Did map size affect the game balance of any of three races or it was absolutely even for all of three independently of map size?
If the last, well, it's one more evidence that BW is balanced game, contrary SC2 which is not.


...Maps were used as balance patches in BW

There were no patches, so new maps were made to even out the balance of the game. So yes I would say map design is incredibly important.
Mitsuwa
Profile Joined July 2010
United States793 Posts
April 26 2011 05:10 GMT
#538
Thank you so much for this artosis and hwanni. I love these they are so interesting to see how the pros live and how they practice and get their insight into the games. Were you guys in a room between a hallway and a bathroom or something? ALl those people seemed like they urgently needed to get into that room haha. I agree with the other posters. Slayers would be awesome to see. That or ogs :D
Perchloric
Profile Joined March 2011
Brazil163 Posts
April 28 2011 20:30 GMT
#539
IM doesen't have sponsors?! That's rough.
hi im new
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany150 Posts
April 28 2011 20:35 GMT
#540
i am fucking sick of every tournament being only terrans. it's always tvt semifinals. ALWAYS.

while i really like tvt and it's one of my favorite matchups it's starting to get old.
who really enjoys watching at least 3 tvt finals every day. where are the zergs and protosses? where? i see only terrans. fucking boring.

how can anyone honestly believe that terran is somehow the weakest race with shit like that going on every day. EVERY weekly cup EVERY day is almost always 4 terrans in semi finals and we see tvt tvt tvt tvt tvt

I
AM
FUCKING
SICK
OF
THIS
SHIT


honestly
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025, Day 1
ByuN vs AstreaLIVE!
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Rogue
Serral vs TBD
EWC_Arena2780
ComeBackTV 1372
TaKeTV 317
Hui .277
3DClanTV 244
CranKy Ducklings165
Rex158
Fuzer 146
Reynor110
mcanning92
UpATreeSC41
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena2780
Hui .277
Rex 158
Fuzer 146
Reynor 110
mcanning 92
UpATreeSC 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27801
Barracks 1551
Bisu 1211
EffOrt 542
Jaedong 515
Mini 355
firebathero 332
Stork 305
PianO 257
Rush 176
[ Show more ]
Leta 139
ToSsGirL 134
Soma 128
Pusan 127
Free 104
soO 71
Soulkey 69
Shine 42
ZerO 32
NotJumperer 27
NaDa 22
Sharp 22
yabsab 21
zelot 16
Snow 14
Movie 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe353
420jenkins208
BananaSlamJamma163
canceldota61
League of Legends
JimRising 436
Counter-Strike
x6flipin438
allub189
Other Games
singsing1783
Happy332
SortOf160
Trikslyr27
ArmadaUGS16
ZerO(Twitch)7
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1371
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH325
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV342
• lizZardDota2110
League of Legends
• Stunt1155
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
23h 20m
Esports World Cup
1d 23h
Esports World Cup
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.