EPTi am fucking sick of every tournament being only terrans. it's always tvt semifinals. ALWAYS.
No it's not, and you know it.
Anyway, thanks for all the great work Artosis. Much love. <3
"Terran is the weakest race" - MVP, IM House Tour - Page 28
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Zabimaru
United Kingdom132 Posts
No it's not, and you know it. Anyway, thanks for all the great work Artosis. Much love. <3 | ||
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hi im new
Germany150 Posts
if it wasn't then i wouldn't be pissed off and frustrated by all the tvt when i just want to sit down and watch some sc2 games. tvt is only exciting for so long. watching 50 tvt every day is just stupid. | ||
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Rashid
191 Posts
On April 26 2011 00:54 Juanald wrote:  wow u cant be serius.. and ur saying zealot/stalker isnt hard to micro LOL!? what about forcedfeilds?...give protoss a try and ull find urself pushing ur multitask skillz to the limit. stop wining about balance cmon man ~Juanald Zealot stalker doesnt require any micro. -Rashid | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On April 26 2011 00:54 Juanald wrote: wow u cant be serius.. and ur saying zealot/stalker isnt hard to micro LOL!? what about forcedfeilds?...give protoss a try and ull find urself pushing ur multitask skillz to the limit. stop wining about balance cmon man ~Juanald Coming from playing protoss in bw and protoss from beta to january for sc2, I can tell you terran (my race now) is much much more mechanically demanding. The multitasking skills isn't even close. And if you want to get into more history, I can tell you terran was by far the most mechanically demanding race in sc1. | ||
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Rashid
191 Posts
The 'OMG TERRAN IS OP ZERG IS UP' bandwagon has gone waaay to long and needs to fcuking stop. It's bad enough that Terran players in general are struggling against Z and P on the ladder, it's even worse that all their effort gets passed off as 'OMG TERRAN IMBA LOL' mentality cultivated by overly self-entitled Zs and Ps. It's freaking annoying. | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:04 Rashid wrote: Btw, i'm terribly glad that at least ONE pro player admits that Terran is the weakest. I mean, Terran got nerfed in virtually every single patch since retail. What the hell do you guys expect? The 'OMG TERRAN IS OP ZERG IS UP' bandwagon has gone waaay to long and needs to fcuking stop. It's bad enough that Terran players in general are struggling against Z and P on the ladder, it's even worse that all their effort gets passed off as 'OMG TERRAN IMBA LOL' mentality cultivated by overly self-entitled Zs and Ps. It's freaking annoying. I dunno dude, Terrans seem to do pretty well for themselves on the ladder. No idea where this attitude is coming from. | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:04 Rashid wrote: Btw, i'm terribly glad that at least ONE pro player admits that Terran is the weakest. I mean, Terran got nerfed in virtually every single patch since retail. What the hell do you guys expect? The 'OMG TERRAN IS OP ZERG IS UP' bandwagon has gone waaay to long and needs to fcuking stop. It's bad enough that Terran players in general are struggling against Z and P on the ladder, it's even worse that all their effort gets passed off as 'OMG TERRAN IMBA LOL' mentality cultivated by overly self-entitled Zs and Ps. It's freaking annoying. The difference is that MVP is saying this while polishing his trophies and other terrans are doing fine. It's MVP that is slipping, not his race. The last few GSLs his play was not as good as it was. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:04 Rashid wrote: Btw, i'm terribly glad that at least ONE pro player admits that Terran is the weakest. I mean, Terran got nerfed in virtually every single patch since retail. What the hell do you guys expect? The 'OMG TERRAN IS OP ZERG IS UP' bandwagon has gone waaay to long and needs to fcuking stop. It's bad enough that Terran players in general are struggling against Z and P on the ladder, it's even worse that all their effort gets passed off as 'OMG TERRAN IMBA LOL' mentality cultivated by overly self-entitled Zs and Ps. It's freaking annoying. yes it's very impressive for someone to come out and say that the race they play is the weakest race. what bravery! | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
and thanks for these vids artosis, ur too good! (PS: when u gonna do another idra interview?  ) | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:04 Rashid wrote: Btw, i'm terribly glad that at least ONE pro player admits that Terran is the weakest. I mean, Terran got nerfed in virtually every single patch since retail. What the hell do you guys expect? The 'OMG TERRAN IS OP ZERG IS UP' bandwagon has gone waaay to long and needs to fcuking stop. It's bad enough that Terran players in general are struggling against Z and P on the ladder, it's even worse that all their effort gets passed off as 'OMG TERRAN IMBA LOL' mentality cultivated by overly self-entitled Zs and Ps. It's freaking annoying. Terran is not the weakest imo, it's all quite even actually. But to give a counter-example for your statement ("Terran is the weakest race"): according to sc2ranks these are the stats for Europe & Korea Grandmaster:
I interpret this as 'Terran dominates Korea', 'Races are quite equal in Europe, Protoss slightly in the lead'. Notice how Terran is easily the most played race in both regions. In contrast, the NA numbers:
Terran is played a lot less in NA for some reason; but average points are highest, although Zerg is only very slightly behind. Protoss in last place by a fair margin. Now you will quickly say 'only noobs play Protoss in NA', but if Terran was so weak I suppose even the noob Protosses should be able to defeat Terran  And remember 'noob' is very relative, considering we are talking about the Grandmaster league here.In conclusion it is fairly safe to say Terran is in fact not the weakest race. If anything can be concluded from this data (which I assume shifts quite a lot, and fast), it is that the game right now is pretty well balanced ^_^ | ||
Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
where pros aren't putting their best play into the game and where the game tries to make you lose. | ||
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orphn
2 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:20 dani` wrote: Terran is not the weakest imo, it's all quite even actually. But to give a counter-example for your statement ("Terran is the weakest race"): according to sc2ranks these are the stats for Europe & Korea Grandmaster:
I interpret this as 'Terran dominates Korea', 'Races are quite equal in Europe, Protoss slightly in the lead'. Notice how Terran is easily the most played race in both regions. In contrast, the NA numbers:
Terran is played a lot less in NA for some reason; but average points are highest, although Zerg is only very slightly behind. Protoss in last place by a fair margin. Now you will quickly say 'only noobs play Protoss in NA', but if Terran was so weak I suppose even the noob Protosses should be able to defeat Terran And remember 'noob' is very relative, considering we are talking about the Grandmaster league here.In conclusion it is fairly safe to say Terran is in fact not the weakest race. If anything can be concluded from this data (which I assume shifts quite a lot, and fast), it is that the game right now is pretty well balanced ^_^ as it's already been said before, MVP is talking about the GSL maps. obviously, stats from ladder are not relevant to balance on GSL maps | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:23 orphn wrote: as it's already been said before, MVP is talking about the GSL maps. obviously, stats from ladder are not relevant to balance on GSL maps I know, but I was responding to someone who wanted to extrapolate MVP's quote to reason about the current game balance and he said Terran was in fact the weakest race in the game. | ||
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R3N
740 Posts
And statistically Terran aren't doing any worse than other races in those large maps. Well, compared to their overpowered, near gamebreaking paste in the smallish, cheesy blizzard maps, Terran are doing TERRIBLY rofl. I guess all zergs and protoss for that matter should've just switch races then? Fucking silly. GTFO slumping/underperforming terran crybaby | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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Rashid
191 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:20 dani` wrote: Terran is not the weakest imo, it's all quite even actually. But to give a counter-example for your statement ("Terran is the weakest race"): according to sc2ranks these are the stats for Europe & Korea Grandmaster:
I interpret this as 'Terran dominates Korea', 'Races are quite equal in Europe, Protoss slightly in the lead'. Notice how Terran is easily the most played race in both regions. In contrast, the NA numbers:
Terran is played a lot less in NA for some reason; but average points are highest, although Zerg is only very slightly behind. Protoss in last place by a fair margin. Now you will quickly say 'only noobs play Protoss in NA', but if Terran was so weak I suppose even the noob Protosses should be able to defeat Terran And remember 'noob' is very relative, considering we are talking about the Grandmaster league here.In conclusion it is fairly safe to say Terran is in fact not the weakest race. If anything can be concluded from this data (which I assume shifts quite a lot, and fast), it is that the game right now is pretty well balanced ^_^ So what? back just before one of the patches (i think it's the one where reapers were nerfed, i'm not quite sure) Blizz released their own stats basically saying Zerg owns Terrans globally. But then everybody came up with a bunch of excuses about how the statistics don't count, like how better zerg players were matched up with lesser terran players due the the matching system striving for 50/50 winlose ratio. How is it any different from now? | ||
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:22 Let it Raine wrote: it's ladder. where pros aren't putting their best play into the game and where the game tries to make you lose. how about GSL where two protoss winners (MCx2), 2 zerg winners (Nestea, fruitdealer), and 2 terrans (MVP twice, but one being WC) each have about same amount of trophies. | ||
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R3N
740 Posts
On April 29 2011 06:40 illsick wrote: how about GSL where two protoss winners (MCx2), 2 zerg winners (Nestea, fruitdealer), and 2 terrans (MVP twice, but one being WC) each have about same amount of trophies. useless You should take sample of which race advances to the Ro16, Ro8 etc. in every season to get a much better understanding of the statistical balance between the races. But then such a fair undertaking disfavors the terran/protoss (because they are the races who're dominating in such statistics) so no one will never do that. | ||
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mutantmagnet
United States3789 Posts
I think Hwanni had some trouble translating Losira's response to Artosis' balance question. He stumbled with the translation a bit and ultimately didn't get across what Losira was trying to say. As a Korean speaker, I didn't hear Losira say anything about the need to constantly "counterattack," as Hwanni claimed. Losira actually said that the reason he thinks Zerg is the weakest race at the moment is because Terran and Protoss have more of an ability to take the initiative with their build orders in the early game. As a result, Zerg must constantly "match" what Protoss and Terran are doing in the early game just to survive. He said that IF a Zerg succeeds in "matching" the Terran or Protoss early on, THEN two opponents will battle it out and win or lose based on skill later in the game. Essentially, the skill of the Zerg player wouldn't even be showcased unless he survived later into the game without taking too much damage from the various tactics Terran and Protoss could use in the early game. So two opponents of equal skill (one being Zerg) would have a completely fair fight only after the Zerg were to make it past a certain point relatively unscathed, having responded correctly to all the different pressures. Losira mentioned that if a Zerg gets this process of "matching" even slightly wrong, he simply gets rolled early on, ending the game rather abruptly. When Zerg wins, it's because this process was done perfectly, and this is what is the hard part about Zerg. I assume by "matching," Losira means drone production vs unit production vs correct counter to potentially deadly harass/all-ins/early timing pushes. I'm not saying this is what I personally think, but I'm pretty sure this is what Losira was trying to express in Korean, which got lost in translation via Hwanni. I think Hwanni mistranslated "matching" to "counterattacking" and said a bunch of things that Losira didn't even mention lol. PS Also, the IM coach mentioned nothing about Greg "Idra" Fields being a bad fit for IM. Hwanni added that in by himself. Of course.... this doesn't necessarily mean that the coach doesn't agree with Hwanni. But whatever. Just trying to clear some things up. Post made by redemption Quoting this again because there is too much balance discussion in this thread when there is so much more that can be taken away from these videos. | ||
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
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