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My impressions after first two weeks:
I love the competition itself. the scale of it is incredible, and the thought of having this level of games continually being played over the next couple of months is wonderful.
The stream has been choppy, but overall the production hasn't been too bad. Also, it's continually heading in a positive direction, and I feel very optimistic about the NASL as a whole. I can't wait for the later stages of the divisions, with 3 or 4 games left to play as people scrape for a top two or a top 6 finish, or avoid a bottom 16 place to qualify for next season.
However, something needs to be done about the caster dynamic. Both Incontrol and Gretorp have both been very good on occassions, but sometimes they lead to very ugly interactions that havce actually caused me to close the stream wndow in almost embarassment. Gretorp seems much too deferential to InControl, and InControl can't resist the temptation to take advantage of this. It's quite unpleasant to view sometimes.
They definitely don't seem to be socially compatable, and due to this dynamic Gretorp comes accross as a socially challenged awkward teenager, and InControl comes accross as a bit of cocky-prick teenager. Maybe they'd be better with alternate casters?
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On April 29 2011 03:15 Blurio wrote:
The best thing that could happen to the Starcraft 2 casting community would be getting rid of the fucking T-Shirt/Blazer combo.
ummm..t-shirt blazer is fine... u guys dont know fashion...maybe v-neck plain tee + blazer since u guys seem to be so conservative
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I do not know if this has been mentioned, but my friend wasted $25 because (he has a slow internet) and he cannot watch the VODs. Probably add a 360 or 720p feature for people with slower internet, aside from that, I think it is pretty good.
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On April 29 2011 04:38 outerspace02 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 03:26 iNcontroL wrote:
It's a tips and recommendation thread... not a "here is what you MUST do thread."
We don't take everyone's advice and apply it to practice. You wouldn't actually want that btw!
lmao
its about ur attitude
Agree with Outerspace02. That's a pretty arrogant way of responding to customers and potential customers.
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On April 29 2011 08:30 iTzAnglory wrote:
I do not know if this has been mentioned, but my friend wasted $25 because (he has a slow internet) and he cannot watch the VODs. Probably add a 360 or 720p feature for people with slower internet, aside from that, I think it is pretty good.
There are already 360p, 480p, 720p, and 1080p features of which the 720p and 1080p is only available with payment. However, since he might only be able to watch using 360p, there was no point of buying a season pass anyways except for the VODs that they will release after the season is over.
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On April 29 2011 08:33 ghostnuke1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 04:38 outerspace02 wrote:On April 29 2011 03:26 iNcontroL wrote:
It's a tips and recommendation thread... not a "here is what you MUST do thread."
We don't take everyone's advice and apply it to practice. You wouldn't actually want that btw!
lmao
its about ur attitude Agree with Outerspace02. That's a pretty arrogant way of responding to customers and potential customers.
I dont know, he is actually telling us that they are reading/considering our complaints/advise.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 29 2011 04:38 outerspace02 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 03:26 iNcontroL wrote:On April 28 2011 17:48 outerspace02 wrote:On April 28 2011 14:58 iNcontroL wrote:On April 28 2011 14:53 x6Paramore wrote:On April 28 2011 11:29 iNcontroL wrote:On April 28 2011 10:15 x6Paramore wrote:
I think one of the casters needs to be less critical. You aren't trying to teach a lesson on live stream... you aren't giving a day9 daily and you aren't coaching anyone either. You are there to bring the event to life. Describe what is going on, analyze the situation at hand, but don't go TOO in depth about what the other player "should" have done. Yeah, its okay to mention what he could have done... but you aren't there to commentate on what the game would have looked like if both players played perfectly.
Objectivity is pretty key in what I just mentioned as well. Disagree. One of the benefits of having 2 progamer casters is they can dissect the game and talk about the mistakes / other options. Not sure why you would ever want less information in a cast. We can just gush over everything these guys do if you like.. nah, that'd be bad. You guys basically do gush over everything these guys do... saying.. "this is bad, this is the wrong way" Then today there was an instance, where you targeted a player and his team-mates saying they should have a clan meeting and get their shit together. Whether that is right or wrong, it just destroys the quality of the show. Do you see tasteless and artosis calling out team Slayers during a GSL cast, saying they really need to shape up a particular player or have a team meeting? Forget tastosis, it would be unreasonable to compare professionals who have done this longer than you. I won't even expect you to be as objective as TotalBiscuit, who you claim to have no game knowledge, when in fact, most noobs probably learn way more about SC2 watching him than hearing you talk about "how awesome the creep spread is" for 20 seconds every zerg match you see... Seriously, you mention it way too often... a simple half-second mention of "great creep spread here by zerg" is good enough for something so menial. What I expect from watching something that is sponsored and paid and has cash prizes to the amounts that can compare to GSL, is professionalism and objectivity. Otherwise, I might as well be watching Fox News dubbed over NASL trashing how bad "Blue" is in one corner and promoting how awesome "Red" is on the other corner with absolutely no basis or quality facts to prove it. Also, being better at the game does not mean you know more about the game. Just like how professional hockey commentators can't necessarily play professional hockey. Therefore it is not that big of an advantage to have professional commentators over commentators that are less skilled in the game itself but have a much better social presentation of their content. Yes, being professional gamers does give you an advantage over random scrubs that have never touched a microphone or played the game, but again, it does not give you much of an advantage over someone like Day9 or Artosis or TotalBiscuit or Tasteless. Furthermore, being overcritical about players specific actions just ends up being more whiney. I don't need to see some grown ass man raging about why a certain zerg left the game abruptly player uprooted his spine-crawlers at a bad moment at his expansion on close positions in Shattered Temple. All a commentator needs to do is recognize that that particular player felt it was time to throw in the towel and move on. There's no need to go into a 60 second rant about how its the NASL and he should have tried to play out the game. You have no idea what the player is thinking in his head. Maybe he has a better picture of his status than you do and in his mind he felt he lost, which is pretty much as good as losing the game already. (But yeah thats getting way too specific) Either way, thats my 2cents, you can take it or leave it. If all I hear is going to be incessant whining about particular details or what-ifs that draw attention from what really matters on the camera, then I can always mute. None the less, this thread asked for my opinion and I gave it. Regards. P.S. its not about less content, its about more quality content. Right now its IMHO not good. We've been called too complementary. Honestly you are the first to call us "overly critical." Frankly I think both are fine  Thx though! good to see this thread is going to good use lmao It's a tips and recommendation thread... not a "here is what you MUST do thread." We don't take everyone's advice and apply it to practice. You wouldn't actually want that btw! lmao its about ur attitude
???
I had two posts with him saying I disagreed with his argument. He restated his opinion and I said "no thanks" essentially. Then I stated we don't hAVE to do what people suggest.
any attitude you are inferring is just that.. your inference.
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On April 29 2011 08:33 ghostnuke1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 04:38 outerspace02 wrote:On April 29 2011 03:26 iNcontroL wrote:
It's a tips and recommendation thread... not a "here is what you MUST do thread."
We don't take everyone's advice and apply it to practice. You wouldn't actually want that btw!
lmao
its about ur attitude Agree with Outerspace02. That's a pretty arrogant way of responding to customers and potential customers.
agreed. the general feeling i'm getting from this thread is incontrol's ego is worth more than the quality of the show, coming off very bitter about criticism with no humility. it's the same way in most SOTGs, like the old ones where he argues with artosis. really hates to be wrong and kinda lashes out with sarcasm when his ideas are attaked. at least he's consistent in his no humility attitude, which a lot of people like
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8748 Posts
On April 29 2011 08:22 Bluerain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 03:15 Blurio wrote:
The best thing that could happen to the Starcraft 2 casting community would be getting rid of the fucking T-Shirt/Blazer combo. ummm..t-shirt blazer is fine... u guys dont know fashion...maybe v-neck plain tee + blazer since u guys seem to be so conservative
t-shirt blazer can work, yeah. but look at all the commentators who have tried to wear t-shirt blazer, and then look at how people with fashion sense wear t-shirt blazer, and you'll see a difference. for the most part, commentators just wear a shirt that doesnt look like complete shit, and then they throw on a blazer, that might not necessarily be theirs or fitted to them. it's a mess. whether they wanna stick to it or not, i think the tip can be simplified: get a fashion consultant. this is one of those things they could get for free by sourcing the community imo!
personally i think t-shirt blazer is casual enough that the only instances you can wear it is when dress code is lax. so you could wear a variety of styles. so it doesnt make sense to me to wear it every day. part of being casual is mixing it up. sticking to a one-dimensional casual dress code is weird
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first of all id like to say good job to the NASL for really improving their league and service over the last 2 weeks.
as for tips, people ITT seem to have that covered but ive got an idea id just like to throw out there.. theres really one thing i would LOVE to see, that no other league is doing at the moment (as far as i know) and that is playback analysis. i think it would be amazing if after the game, you can bring up the replay and rewind back to specific moments and give your analysis just like they do on sport shows (im from the UK so im thinking about match of the day here...).
I think that might be a little ambitious but i think its something everyone would love to see post game.
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Thanks NASL, for reading through this thread in depth and fixing like 95% of what was wrong the first week. I was SUPER sad and discouraged after the first week, but little by little and lot by lot you guys have just about fixed the stream, improved casting by almost 1000x fold, had amazing games and frankly are just play funny and fun to watch. The best part of all of this NASL business is that the commentary is so in depth that I am actually learning! I never knew you needed to target corruptors with your stalkers etc. You started rough....really reallly rough but you have pulled it through to almost perfection.
The only thing you need to do is remove the choppiness from the stream and ill watch every day :DDD
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Canada13389 Posts
I think all we need now is the following:
Please NASL work on sound mixing. Take a class from a local TLer knowledgeable in sound mixing who lives near or is willing to visit the studio for a day to help you out. Investing in high quality headphones will help since studio monitors show the issues very obviously and its very frustrating to use mine when listening. Its not as bad when I use iPod headphones or other cheaper in ears but when I use my studio grade stuff its terribad.
Other than that, try to convince JTV to figure out the lag issue from their end since many many streams with high viewer counts also have the lag issues.
Thats all I have. I'm really enjoying it otherwise to be entirely honest with you. With regards to what NASL can actually control, the audio is the only problem I have
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When Gretorp is the only one in the studio casting w/Khaldor or someone else, zoom in on him a bit. He looks tiny compared to Khaldor.
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Just my opinion that "might" help:
1. The backgrounds on the commentator screen looks kind of dull (its blackish). Theres just too much black space left unused. Either you can zoom in the commentators more or maybe you could brighten up using eye catching techniques (refer to the colour wheel or needs more brighter lights, or even use up the unused space which I assume is for future sponsors).
2. Don't show countdown or loading screen, to me it looks unprofessional and perhaps viewers don't to see a screen loading and the screen could be used for something else.
3. Chatting in game just doesn't look good to me and makes it feel like a casual game, perhaps banning in game chats (except going "GG"), or the observer has to block all the players so the viewers cant see the chat.
4. People logging pop up just doesn't like eSport but just casual. Make sure its 100% status set on N/A
5. Sound/Music = Selection of music I think is important and depending on what music you use can set the mood or atmosphere of the eSport. For example Zerg music feels eerie and creepy and protoss feels mysterious. You don't want to use it at like pre-game or after a victory.
5. Better animated breaks advertisements. The incontrol clone is quite hilarious but its just too quiet. If you watch HDStarcraft's intro it looks epic, even with the sound.. try something similar to that :D..
Again just my opinions, feel free to take them into account or ignore it :p and congrats on the good work so far
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Tuned in today after a long time(first show), liked it alot guys, the sound is one of the things that can be improved, but I'm starting to enjoy it a lot. And the players you have are pretty kick ass, so keep going gj!
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Gretorp looked good tonight -- blazer over a t-shirt looks fucking bad. Also the music felt very uncomfortable against the cast; definitely think you guys should go with something else.
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Although it has had its fair share of problems like audio, choppiness, and the Painuser Game 3 incident, I'm an extremely satisfied with NASL. I think the games are great and all the things I mentioned above have been improved significantly. The music between each games is great, the scoreboard being put up is awesome, and the casting has gotten significantly greater. Keep up the great work guys, I have high hopes for NASL.
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On April 29 2011 08:42 salazar001 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 08:30 iTzAnglory wrote:
I do not know if this has been mentioned, but my friend wasted $25 because (he has a slow internet) and he cannot watch the VODs. Probably add a 360 or 720p feature for people with slower internet, aside from that, I think it is pretty good. There are already 360p, 480p, 720p, and 1080p features of which the 720p and 1080p is only available with payment. However, since he might only be able to watch using 360p, there was no point of buying a season pass anyways except for the VODs that they will release after the season is over.
He is talking about the VODs not the stream. VODs are only available in 1080p.
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i simply cannot stand gretorp's casting anymore, barely any analysis in the slow parts of the game, and resorts to arguing meaningless points with his partner. i paid the $25 for NASL, but i regret it.
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Gretorp,
Your casting has improved greatly, but I feel like sometimes you don't plan out what you are going to say. Just now when you were recapping the games of Moman vs Ensnare, it felt like you couldn't figure out how to end what you were saying to let Khaldor speak. I think that if you can work on your mini-tangents and learn to condense your language a bit, you'll improve a lot. Great casting overall, just a small imperfection I noticed.
Cheers NASL, making my $25 worth it =)
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EPT
