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On April 17 2011 15:44 SiguR wrote:
I got the impression today that the commentators are trying to actively filter and control how they are talking because of feedback they've received. This is an unfortunate consequence of listening to feedback. I hope you guys aren't afraid to let it out naturally sometimes!
Gretorp seems like an absolutely phenomenal person, but I don't think this professional commentating environment is jiving well with him (though it is only the first week). In the GCPL and other events he was much more natural and witty. I'm not sure if it's a comfort or environment thing, but I feel like he's been affected by the feedback and is trying to work out of his comfort zone now.
Diggity and Khalldor seemed absolutely excellent, barring mic quality.
I think a lot of the problems with the NASL are just going to take some time to smooth out.
Using close positions metalopolis is unsettling though. That seems like it would be a no brainer from hour zero. Also, the amount of production errors that seem to be slipping through are mildly alarming. I almost feel like they are cutting up things too much and making production much harder on themselves. Though given the number of on the spot changes that have to have been made in this first week, that's understandable i guess.
IMO Diggity is the only caster - and maybe Incontrol (though he jokes around with random things the viewers have no idea of too much) - that seem professional. Sad to say, but a big part of casting is the voice and how pleasing or displeasing it is to the ears of the audience, and if Gretorp showed up at a sports cast try-out, he would be the first one out the door because his voice and the rhythm to his casting is all off-beat.
Khaldor as well, but that's no fault of his, it's a combination of ESL and his mic quality, lol. He has a habit of repeating the last few words of a sentence again (as the beginning of the next sentence). It's a poor substitute to professional flow (like Day9), but again I'm taking french as my second language and it's incredibly hard to not only speak the language but speak it fluently.
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Gretorp seems to be a problem for alot of people and I tend to agree he is simply just not cut out for casting neither his voice or his look ( his lazy eyes were it looks like he's falling asleep sometimes) there are alot of casters who would jump at the chance to cast nasl.
The "sports desk" isn't working it's do plain and almost hard to watch it looks like you guys are hanging out in a dark cave with a backdrop. Also the sports jacket and Tshirts look silly for this kind of set up I dunno why but tasteosis can pull it off you guys can't. Take a page out of diggitys book the man looks class.
The amount of game cancelations has been a disaster. Also spoiling a game you haven't cast yet is a huge no no (squirtle vs ax) that was just bad no apology or even admitting it was done after the fact either.
Sound quality needs some huge improvements although I thought it got better today it's still not great.
The chemistry between the 2 casters just isn't there I know you guys are just getting started but you have already done gcpl together it should be better by now. I think Inc has the potential to be a great caster but I know tons of people are having trouble with Gretorp he's just not cut from the same crop as good casters I don't think he will ever improve enough to be a top notch caster. If you got a caster to properly support incontrol you could potentially become one of the best casting teams in the world.
I find the TSL infinitely more exciting and it just feels like it was put together with much higher quality. The nasl feels kind of corny at times. Also I payed for the hd pass but I'm regretting it alot for some reason I get bad headaches watching the nasl I cringe at the casting the lighting seems wierd and the background music was off I think background music could work but it wasn't integrated properly into your set up.
The nasl needs to step it up 10 fold if it fails it's going to set esports back quite a bit I don't want to see that happen. You really can't be stubborn about the fact that a vast majority of people would prefer a different caster over Gretorp either. Even those that like him could probably name someone that is available that they would prefer. I really liked Khaldor and diggity today it was much higher quality casting and they werent in the same room or haven't had time to create chemistry like torp and Inc yet it was better that defenetly says something about the current main caster set up.
The intro is extremely cheesy bad music doesn't seem very professional you need something epic feeling. And you really have to do something about the casting room it's so bland the lighting is bad it's just hard to look at.
When the nasl told me it was going to be unmatched production value . I believed you but I wouldn't really put this up there with many other tournaments in terms of production value. I know you guys are trying but with the amount of complaints you surely must feel like something is off as well. Have you ever heard people complain about the gsl or the tsl no not very often and defenetly not in this magnitude because they are very easy on the eyes and very easy to fall in love with I also think the quality casters they both have are a big part of this. Where as there are 1000 of pages of complaints about various things in the nasl you have to listen to the community not on every point but if something keeps popping up it probably needs to be changed (Gretorp?)
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I was quite disspointed to see Close spawn Positions allowable on such maps as metapolis.
I thought that as a community(MLG, TSL, etc) have agreed and progressed into more fair maps and positions.
It seems that NASL has disregarded that fact for a reason.
now the use of some ladder maps like Blackwater gulch is questionable
but it is nice to a see a variance in some maps.
but they should really fix the close position thing.
ZvT, yes there will be a bunker rush, why?
even MKP said its heavily favoured for terran(90% he said or something high like that)
it takes away from awesome, nail bitting games.
In terms of casters
hmm
I love gretorp as a person i really do
he seems so nice and chill! i bet you could hug that guy all day never get bored(no homo)
but sometimes hes to chill, but i do see him trying to be more of a exciting commentator
so props to him
incontrol, not sure.
his jokes are...(well you answer that)
sometimes(atleast once per cast) hell say something like
"Oh id like to say something right now but i cant"
its like... why even say that?
or says a joke where your face IRL will be like =/
Khaldor hes pretty good most of the time
he does this very good crescendo voice, sorta like they do in real sports like soccer(football)
that really adds to the game and I like that
hes prob my fav right now.
Diggity?
I dunno hes just there, nothing great but nothing bad
When we combo Khaldor+anyone else its pretty good, because you get energy from Khaldor
When you combo anyone without Khaldor
its real
effin
monotone
Heres how you will be successful NASL if you actually read this
You will keep 1 strategic caster
you will hire 1 extatic caster(TB?)
You need to balance serious and silly
why is Tasteosis so amazing?
because they balance serious and silly
when you put two people like INcontrol and Gretorp you really just get a "whatevs" game
it to much on the serious bar.
This is supposed to be fun, not hardcore down to the wire strategic theory
thats why TSL is good, they noticed this
They have 2 serious/silly(day9, wheat) and 2 silly/serious(husky,chill)
thus you get quite the interesting casts.
So in conclusion:
get better casters.
maybe better wrong word
silly casters.
Currently their line up is this
super serious
super proffesional(wannabes to be honest)
and possibly try hards(which isnt a bad thing, excpet sometimes it is WAY onbvious that they are trying to hard)
casters
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Honestly the TSL is like the greatest online tournament ever so its a hard act to follow, they dont even have the casters in the same room and yet they make it work sooo well. Its actually amazing , the layout is fairly simple the casting is great and the games and players are of the highest quality, watching the TSL is an absolute treat and a delight if it could be on 5 days a week i would be soo excited.
I think the NASL has potential and although its only the first week there have been alot of problems, far more problems then i have seen in low budget start up tournaments done fromm peoples basements , i know because your guys set up is ambitious (but not impressive so far ><) its obviously a lot more complicated then one of these tournaments but you guys have the money and should maybe done some more testing or had a test group of people to show some showmatch games done by the NASL in the same style to get feedback. Its disheartening when you pay for something and you feel like its still in the beta stages and things are still being figured out. Im not saying that it should be the final product, but the product your selling should feel polished not rushed and disorganized that leaves me with very little faith in the future of the NASL.
anyways i hope week 2 is a huge improvement (and tommoro as well i geuss) not being able to see the only game i was excited about today was a huge dissapointment.
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On April 17 2011 16:18 MadCatZ wrote:
I was quite disspointed to see Close spawn Positions allowable on such maps as metapolis.
I thought that as a community(MLG, TSL, etc) have agreed and progressed into more fair maps and positions.
It seems that NASL has disregarded that fact for a reason.
now the use of some ladder maps like Blackwater gulch is questionable
but it is nice to a see a variance in some maps.
but they should really fix the close position thing.
ZvT, yes there will be a bunker rush, why?
even MKP said its heavily favoured for terran(90% he said or something high like that)
it takes away from awesome, nail bitting games.
In terms of casters
hmm
I love gretorp as a person i really do
he seems so nice and chill! i bet you could hug that guy all day never get bored(no homo)
but sometimes hes to chill, but i do see him trying to be more of a exciting commentator
so props to him
incontrol, not sure.
his jokes are...(well you answer that)
sometimes(atleast once per cast) hell say something like
"Oh id like to say something right now but i cant"
its like... why even say that?
or says a joke where your face IRL will be like =/
Khaldor hes pretty good most of the time
he does this very good crescendo voice, sorta like they do in real sports like soccer(football)
that really adds to the game and I like that
hes prob my fav right now.
Diggity?
I dunno hes just there, nothing great but nothing bad
When we combo Khaldor+anyone else its pretty good, because you get energy from Khaldor
When you combo anyone without Khaldor
its real
effin
monotone
Heres how you will be successful NASL if you actually read this
You will keep 1 strategic caster
you will hire 1 extatic caster(TB?)
You need to balance serious and silly
why is Tasteosis so amazing?
because they balance serious and silly
when you put two people like INcontrol and Gretorp you really just get a "whatevs" game
it to much on the serious bar.
This is supposed to be fun, not hardcore down to the wire strategic theory
thats why TSL is good, they noticed this
They have 2 serious/silly(day9, wheat) and 2 silly/serious(husky,chill)
thus you get quite the interesting casts.
So in conclusion:
get better casters.
maybe better wrong word
silly casters.
Currently their line up is this
super serious
super proffesional(wannabes to be honest)
and possibly try hards(which isnt a bad thing, excpet sometimes it is WAY onbvious that they are trying to hard)
casters
They just need someone that goes well with the other , i think if incontrol had someone he could let out his silly side with it would be a way better cast. I dont think they would ever get rid of incontrol as a caster but gretorp alot of the community isnt to fond of him as caster, the chat during the NASl is even worse about it. It just seems like he is disliked overall you cant keep someone like that on and expect it to become popular when that is really all they have right now , the casters and the players, and you dont really get to hear the players that much so its mostly just the casters. Regardless the combo on incontrol and gretorp does not yield good chemistry and they need to do something about that, i think gretorp has improved but i dont think he has that caster feel to him, he doesnt have the voice he certainly doesnt have the look ( i dunno whats up with his eyes but they go really lazy sometimes and it looks like hes super stoned or something)
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The VODs / stream needs some improvement to the quality. Nice resolution but it is choppy, like it was recorded in 10 fps or something. Its not lag or anything since the VOD is fully loaded and not my computer slowing it down. I rather see them lowering the resolution if they cant handle recording in 1080p, more imoportant that to have a good flow in the video.
Like Diggity as a caster, only one that I feel is working fine. Incontrol has improved alot since the first days and is now pretty good, but needs a better cocaster. Gretorp seems like a nice guys but his casting isnt that entertaining, he just dont have the voice for it, much like it was for kelly in the GSL.
Love tha matchups and games, have much more intresting players then GSL, but lacks the production as many pointed out. I hope it can be fixed as time goes on. Improvements can be seen everyday. Lets just hope there is no more w/o.
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If i could change something about the NASL i'd change ignorant forum goers who thinks they know best.
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I want to say release the vods for free, but at the same time I dont want players builds to be so easily uncovered.
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It has probably been mentioned but since this is a huge issue for me it needs to be brought up again, watching the vods on the justintv site is very annoying since there are spoilers in the comments in almost every matchup, and since the comments are right next to the video its very hard to avoid looking at them so if this could be fixed i would be a very satisfied nasl viewer
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On April 17 2011 23:14 ibreakurface wrote:
I want to say release the vods for free, but at the same time I dont want players builds to be so easily uncovered.
what has that to do with anything? you think if other nasl players wanna checkout the builds the payd vods stop them?
and yes,free LQ vods are needed if they want to become THE league outside of korea. it easily would be the go to sc2 event by pure amount of content alone and grow like crazy, but when all "casual" sc2 viewers are somewhat cut out then it will be more of a "well if i somehow got the time i watch.. else w/e" thing for the majority.
On April 17 2011 23:11 Joroth wrote:
If i could change something about the NASL i'd change ignorant forum goers who thinks they know best.
what a great contributing post! ohwait, just random pointless hate.
fact is NASL is doing a subpar job. people tell nasl whats wrong so nasl can improve. its called feedback and is something big companys spend tons of money for research on.
sure evryone would prefer that evrything works fine. but it doesnt. and when things like the bad/outdated mappool come up apparently it needs the community to bitch about it. i dont know why they didnt think of it themselves since there are tons of players involved . but it took people complaining about it for them to realize it.
simple example of why all this is super important for the improvement of the nasl.
when you put two people like INcontrol and Gretorp you really just get a "whatevs" game
last day def was painful at times. but imho lot of that came down to the sound issues, not loud enough music and nonexistant gamesounds.
without all that backround noise ,esp in fights, caster really have to shine to transfer the excitement. and obviously neither of them can do the playbyplay good enough to carry the silent fights(yet).
when in a huge fight all you hear is some low music and " hes attacking!... uumm COLLOSUS DIE..........and now he... ohwait X is actually way ahead right now in supply" while the units silently blow stuff up then it just sounds and feels awkward.
I got the impression today that the commentators are trying to actively filter and control how they are talking because of feedback they've received. This is an unfortunate consequence of listening to feedback. I hope you guys aren't afraid to let it out naturally sometimes!
yeah i get the same feeling. maybe its just the pressure overall but alot feels so forced and artificial.
worst moment for me like that was during a game on backwater gulch on day3 i think. when gretorp said something and incontrol broke the casting be apologizing for 40 seconds about what gretorp said cause some guy emailed him.
it stopped the cast of the game, the "immersion", felt terribly awkward and exposing gretorp like is a no go.
also was a nice example that they are trying to bend aton (too much imho) to appeal to a imo too wide audience. huge pressure+not beeing able to act like you naturally would ofcourse results worse performance.
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NASL - The feedback and research you're getting here is extremely valuable, but, do not let the community define your league too much.
Produce NASL. Stick to your vision. Listen to the feedback, but realize, you're now in the limelight. You actually cannot and should not please everyone. Sticking to your vision will help create the brand that will attract loyal followers.
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I'm still missing games from last night on the VODs. I only bought the ticket so I could watch the VODs and they're doing a terrible job of sorting them out. How hard can it be.
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I think Gretorp needs to be cheer up a bit. Incontrol tells some funny stuff and Gretorp is like "Hmm ok. Let's look at this, X is expanding/preparing to push....."
Some humor please! It feels awkward when one caster is making jokes and other just doesn't care at all.
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On April 18 2011 00:22 TimeSpiral wrote:
NASL - The feedback and research you're getting here is extremely valuable, but, do not let the community define your league too much.
Produce NASL. Stick to your vision. Listen to the feedback, but realize, you're now in the limelight. You actually cannot and should not please everyone. Sticking to your vision will help create the brand that will attract loyal followers.
0/10 what an entirely unhelpful post. What Marketing textbook did you pull this from? This thread is about constructive criticism, not making Coca-Cola.
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This possibly has been said before, but I'd really like to emphasize this point.
Please make the in-game sound effects louder.
This is very important to create the atmosphere in the game and make things more exciting for the viewer. Think about an action movie where all the sound effects would be so low that they become almost inaudible under speech. This would not be fun, so why do that when casting SC2, which should be a similar form of action-packed entertainement?
There was a POLL not too long ago that demonstrates the majority of the community agrees on this concept. In fact 81% prefer loud in-game sounds!
On a sidenote, here is a list of synonyms for "huge". Dear Gretorp, please try to memorize and use a few of them sometimes... 
+ Show Spoiler +abundant, behemothic, broad, bulky, coarse, colossal, commodious, considerable, cyclopean, elephantine, enormous, extensive, gargantuan, giant, gigantic, great, gross*, humongous, immeasurable, immense, jumbo, large, leviathan, lusty, magnificent, mammoth, massive, mighty, mondo, monster*, monstrous*, monumental, mountainous, outsize, oversize, planetary, prodigious, stupendous, titanic, towering, tremendous, vast, walloping, whopping
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On April 18 2011 02:49 CursedFeanor wrote:This possibly has been said before, but I'd really like to emphasize this point. Please make the in-game sound effects louder.This is very important to create the atmosphere in the game and make things more exciting for the viewer. Think about an action movie where all the sound effects would be so low that they become almost inaudible under speech. This would not be fun, so why do that when casting SC2, which should be a similar form of action-packed entertainement? There was a POLL not too long ago that demonstrates the majority of the community agrees on this concept. In fact 81% prefer loud in-game sounds! On a sidenote, here is a list of synonyms for "huge". Dear Gretorp, please try to memorize and use a few of them sometimes... + Show Spoiler +abundant, behemothic, broad, bulky, coarse, colossal, commodious, considerable, cyclopean, elephantine, enormous, extensive, gargantuan, giant, gigantic, great, gross*, humongous, immeasurable, immense, jumbo, large, leviathan, lusty, magnificent, mammoth, massive, mighty, mondo, monster*, monstrous*, monumental, mountainous, outsize, oversize, planetary, prodigious, stupendous, titanic, towering, tremendous, vast, walloping, whopping
Now, if Gretorp substituted Huge with Leviathan THAT would be entirely awesome. My god, thank you thesaurus!
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am I the only one whos annoyed and finds the blazers silly? :/
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On April 18 2011 00:22 TimeSpiral wrote:
NASL - The feedback and research you're getting here is extremely valuable, but, do not let the community define your league too much.
Produce NASL. Stick to your vision. Listen to the feedback, but realize, you're now in the limelight. You actually cannot and should not please everyone. Sticking to your vision will help create the brand that will attract loyal followers.
That's terrible advice. The NASL needs to cater to its viewers. If it doesn't do what viewers want to see, then viewers aren't going to watch it.
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I don't understand what was the reason behind keeping close position on metalopolis? Those positions for zerg are worse than on steppes of war.
I think it's already long ago everyone agreed that close positions are horrible and do not make great games.
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There should be no close spawns and why are they using the old versions of Crevasse and Taldarim?
They claim their pool has one big map, a medium map, and a small map, but if you get close spawns now you have 2 small maps.
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EPT
