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Dear NASL,
Please clarify your league standing and tie-breaker rules. (Note: I looked in the NASL Q&A thread (link), but could not find anything regarding this issue.)
It is clear that the win-loss record is the primary ranking for the group standings with the first tie-breaker being plus/minus record. Obviously, this is to reward players that consistently 2-0 opponents. No problem.
However, there are two issues I would like to bring-up:
1) What is the next tie-breaker after plus/minus? If there are only two players tied for the last playoff spot, then head-to-head record makes sense to me.
But there could be 3 (or more) players tied after the 10th round where head-to-head tie-breaking does not give a clear winner (e.g. A>B, B>C, C>A), if so what is the next tie-breaker?
(Note: In this setting, I actually do not think there is an objective tie-breaker in the 3+ player tie scenario with the same plus/minus and cyclical head-to-head records. Can anyone think of one?)
2) Because there are no-penalty walker-overs (e.g. MC not taking a loss), how with the standing reflect the fact that some players will have only 9 games? After 10 weeks, one player could have a record of 7-3 while another has 7-2. Who is higher ranked?
If it is just total wins, then the standings would go to the plus/minus tie-breaker (and there could be no actual head-to-head match depending on the situation).
If the no-penalty walk-over games are strictly not counted at all and standing are by win-rate, then the 7-2 player should be higher ranked. 7/9 > 7/10
Can you all write-up something like the NFL has on your website?
http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures
Thank you and great job so far! -SolonTLG
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On April 17 2011 12:40 Everhate wrote:
I found the commentary from Inc/Gretorp tonight to be the best it's been so far, even got a bit of a flash of personality from gretorp in there. Love khaldor, but the sound quality of his mic makes him a bit difficult to follow at times.
Keep improving things, getting better by the day.
This. I find that the sound levels get too quiet or too loud concerning the casters also (Khaldor and Diggity were pretty loud in comparison to Inc and Gretorp). In game sounds were almost non-existent compared to the caster's voices.
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get some good PC to render vods and upload them on youtube 1080p.
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On April 17 2011 12:43 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 12:21 dabom88 wrote:
These seem to be the critical aspects of nearly everyone is asking for.
1. More exciting casters. Either commit to making Gretorp/Diggity more entertaining to watch, or or just hire ones that are more exciting. InControl is generally doing a good job.
2. Fix it so that you get in-game sound.
3. USE THE BETTER/MORE UP-TO-DATE VERSIONS OF THE MAPS. Use the MLG/TSL/GOMTV Versions of Metalopolis, Tal-Darim, Crevasse, and Shattered Temple if you use it. And nobody cares about Backwater Gulch, take it out of the map pool.
As long as you respond QUICKLY to these requests (as in apply them to THIS league and not the next one in 2 months. Maybe after the first round of Group Stages or, at the very least, after the group stages are over. A response that is any slower could really turn people off even paying attention to the NASL anymore outside of the big-name players and the Finals/Semifinals. At least with #2 and #3, it's understandably harder to do #1. You do realize that changing the map pool mid season is like the worst thing a league can possibly do.... right? Change them yes! before the league ends? no.
Nope. The worst possible thing a league could do would be to stubbornly keep the same inferior maps when a league is reported to be 3 months in length. They're trying to grab people's attention and sell NASL Tickets, and running a league with inferior maps would be the quickest way to NOT sell tickets and even LOSE Tickets in the next season.
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On April 17 2011 13:46 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 12:43 mprs wrote:On April 17 2011 12:21 dabom88 wrote:
These seem to be the critical aspects of nearly everyone is asking for.
1. More exciting casters. Either commit to making Gretorp/Diggity more entertaining to watch, or or just hire ones that are more exciting. InControl is generally doing a good job.
2. Fix it so that you get in-game sound.
3. USE THE BETTER/MORE UP-TO-DATE VERSIONS OF THE MAPS. Use the MLG/TSL/GOMTV Versions of Metalopolis, Tal-Darim, Crevasse, and Shattered Temple if you use it. And nobody cares about Backwater Gulch, take it out of the map pool.
As long as you respond QUICKLY to these requests (as in apply them to THIS league and not the next one in 2 months. Maybe after the first round of Group Stages or, at the very least, after the group stages are over. A response that is any slower could really turn people off even paying attention to the NASL anymore outside of the big-name players and the Finals/Semifinals. At least with #2 and #3, it's understandably harder to do #1. You do realize that changing the map pool mid season is like the worst thing a league can possibly do.... right? Change them yes! before the league ends? no. Nope. The worst possible thing a league could do would be to stubbornly keep the same inferior maps when a league is reported to be 3 months in length. They're trying to grab people's attention and sell NASL Tickets, and running a league with inferior maps would be the quickest way to NOT sell tickets and even LOSE Tickets in the next season.
Yeah the map pool is so awful considering they're all the same maps as every other tournament except for backwater gulch. Harping on nothing.
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from geoff twitter in regards to tonight
Things to fix: Game sounds way too low CHECK. Maps need updating: CHECK. Make sure to accidentally complement players after each game: CHECK
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On April 17 2011 14:05 TheResidentEvil wrote:
from geoff twitter in regards to tonight
Things to fix: Game sounds way too low CHECK. Maps need updating: CHECK. Make sure to accidentally complement players after each game: CHECK
That's good news I think - although we may not see new maps by the end of the week, we could be seeing them as early as Wednesday next week.
The sound thing I've been rather meh on, and I don't think I've ever really noticed it.
Honestly, I laughed so hard when I heard their little off-camera (but not) discussion. It makes them a lot less serious sounding, and more "fun". However, I get that people were upset by it, so I guess they need to deal with it in some way.
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But it's so painful every time we get close spawns on meta or temple witch is why other tournaments block them. No other tournament uses backwater, or that old old version of altar that didn't even make it to the first team league. Terminus is also an outdated version though lots of tournaments still use it for some reason. They are also mysteriously missing shakuras or maybe even an iccup map. So i don't think it is nothing.
Meanwhile GSL is going to have even more shiny new maps next week designed for exciting and balanced games. Should be fun.
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Geoff himself says that he is well aware that some maps where you can spawn close positions (i.e. metal) include a luck factor and can be unfair in some matchups.
You guys should be using MLG maps imo, in order to make NASL more a test of skill and do everything in your power to remove the 'luck' factor.
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This has been a major issue to me as I paid the $25 bucks to get access to the VODs, but I'm not sure if it's a problem on my end or what, but the framerate on the VODs are incredibly bad.
Also I think there needs to be a fix to the graphical settings, because some things appear to bright and disrupt your view of everything else (eg Viking jetflames, Colossus lasers).
And with regards to whether it's fair to switch the maps mid season, I'd say they can just switch to the current Tal'darim to GSL Tal'darim Altar or Tal'darim Altar LE and Metalopolis to disallow close spawns as soon as possible and just make an announcement to the players/community that they've done so.
Right now, based on scouting patterns, etc, it really seems that the players instantly assume that close spawns are not possible (Select v Hasuobs, a couple of games yesterday, etc.).
But overall, after the Day 1 of the NASL in which I was pretty impressed, I've really been let down by the decision making and planning of the NASL prior to the league starting. All these things should have been sorted out way in advance for a competition which wants to lay claim to being the best.
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They need to get rid of the shadows behind gretorp and incontrol. It's really unprofessional.
On a further note, the easiest way to get rid of Gretorp's shadow is to get rid of him.
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On April 17 2011 13:56 Inky87 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 13:46 dabom88 wrote:On April 17 2011 12:43 mprs wrote:On April 17 2011 12:21 dabom88 wrote:
These seem to be the critical aspects of nearly everyone is asking for.
1. More exciting casters. Either commit to making Gretorp/Diggity more entertaining to watch, or or just hire ones that are more exciting. InControl is generally doing a good job.
2. Fix it so that you get in-game sound.
3. USE THE BETTER/MORE UP-TO-DATE VERSIONS OF THE MAPS. Use the MLG/TSL/GOMTV Versions of Metalopolis, Tal-Darim, Crevasse, and Shattered Temple if you use it. And nobody cares about Backwater Gulch, take it out of the map pool.
As long as you respond QUICKLY to these requests (as in apply them to THIS league and not the next one in 2 months. Maybe after the first round of Group Stages or, at the very least, after the group stages are over. A response that is any slower could really turn people off even paying attention to the NASL anymore outside of the big-name players and the Finals/Semifinals. At least with #2 and #3, it's understandably harder to do #1. You do realize that changing the map pool mid season is like the worst thing a league can possibly do.... right? Change them yes! before the league ends? no. Nope. The worst possible thing a league could do would be to stubbornly keep the same inferior maps when a league is reported to be 3 months in length. They're trying to grab people's attention and sell NASL Tickets, and running a league with inferior maps would be the quickest way to NOT sell tickets and even LOSE Tickets in the next season. Yeah the map pool is so awful considering they're all the same maps as every other tournament except for backwater gulch. Harping on nothing.
Their versions of Metalopolis, Crevasse, and Tal' Darim are out of date compared to the ones being used in GSL (and MLG in regards to Metalopolis).
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I am completely lost about this, but does it seem not all the VOD's are being uploaded? I cannot find 3 matches at all. TT1 vs Sjow, DDE vs Haypro, and Darkforce vs Cruncher? Not to mention the fact the VOD's are just the recorded match off Justin.tv. That is not acceptable. You need to format them so I can skip to each match and if my Internet cannot handle 1080p VOD's I should have a option.
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The casters seem kinda boring.. like they have no interaction with the players.
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Just wanted to point out Id like to hear in game music like GSL. Not whatever music you are using now (it doesnt fit)
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I just want to chime in a bit and say that Diggity is a great caster. I had never listened to one of his casts before this event and have quickly become a fan.
His professional appearance is what E-Sports needs here in NASL! Button up shirt and tie is very approved. Great voice and very considerate of his co-caster. He also does not diminish tension in the game.
In short, my feedback is that Diggity needs to be a larger part of the casting. What he is doing for NASL is quality, and most importantly, professional work.
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Not enough observers focus on the income tab. It is SOOOO important for the observer to be aware of the income/worker count in any Zerg game. Zerg is all about how many drones they can get away with, and without knowing how many drones they have, we don't know how ahead or behind the Zerg is.
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On April 17 2011 14:55 Barett wrote:
I am completely lost about this, but does it seem not all the VOD's are being uploaded? I cannot find 3 matches at all. TT1 vs Sjow, DDE vs Haypro, and Darkforce vs Cruncher? Not to mention the fact the VOD's are just the recorded match off Justin.tv. That is not acceptable. You need to format them so I can skip to each match and if my Internet cannot handle 1080p VOD's I should have a option.
You can just look around through the video archives at http://www.justin.tv/naslseasonone/videos. They're renamed as Division Two/Three/whatever and are around 30-45 minutes long. If not, then just look at the long 4 hr+ videos and just scroll around to find it.
But yeah, I have to agree. It's unacceptable that they're not making more of an effort to cut the VODs up properly.
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I got the impression today that the commentators are trying to actively filter and control how they are talking because of feedback they've received. This is an unfortunate consequence of listening to feedback. I hope you guys aren't afraid to let it out naturally sometimes!
Gretorp seems like an absolutely phenomenal person, but I don't think this professional commentating environment is jiving well with him (though it is only the first week). In the GCPL and other events he was much more natural and witty. I'm not sure if it's a comfort or environment thing, but I feel like he's been affected by the feedback and is trying to work out of his comfort zone now.
Diggity and Khalldor seemed absolutely excellent, barring mic quality.
I think a lot of the problems with the NASL are just going to take some time to smooth out.
Using close positions metalopolis is unsettling though. That seems like it would be a no brainer from hour zero. Also, the amount of production errors that seem to be slipping through are mildly alarming. I almost feel like they are cutting up things too much and making production much harder on themselves. Though given the number of on the spot changes that have to have been made in this first week, that's understandable i guess.
Edit: And in all honesty, considering the piss-fest threads like these usually are, I think the overall quality of the criticism shows that the fans really care about the future of the NASL.
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honestly .. just keep improving and doing what you are doing ... really really liked what INcontroL said at the end of the broadcast they are obviously giving 100% and I am glad I gave 25$ to support this
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EPT
