On April 12 2011 19:47 Markwerf wrote: SC2 on TV will never be big indeed but I can see it still getting some airtime on cheap air time perhaps.
If there is one thing that counts for e-sports on TV is that it has a very low production cost. A broadcast of sc2 would be incredibly cheap to make so perhaps it can be run on one of those hours where the networks are running another re-run of some show instead. I also don't really agree why sc2 can not be cut easily, it would be very easy to chop long games into short ones by just showing the critical opening moves and then showing some critical fights later on. Sure it would lose lots of people who rather watch entire games but it is the same with poker really, poker broadcasts are horrible because they only show all-in hands whereas anyone good at the game hardly cares about those.
E-sports will never be really big on TV or in general though I think. It lacks too many things for that to happen. First of all the market is way too fragmented, there are hundreds of games over many different genres and thus not one game is anywhere close to the numbers of players sports like football, tennis etc. have. Secondly, the top players never really have any charisma. They are not attractice, muscled guys but people who sit indoors entire days practicing their game, it just doesn't appeal to the big audience as they aren't the traditional players that can be worshipped. Clans and clubs are also not really comparible in the way people associate with it, it's not like clans have a stadium or any real fanbase that is devoted to the clan regardless of players playing for it like clubs do. Finally there isn't a single game with as much appeal to viewers as some of the top sports have. There are no astonishing feats of strength or dexterity that anyone that never played the game can enjoy. A headshot in a FPS or a perfect cheese in a RTS just don't compare to a perfect free kick in football or a massive dunk in basketball.
OK dude now your taking the wrong route. The reason sc2 will not be on tv ultimately is because of commercials, not because of whatever belittlement of e-sports you can come up with. Their are more than a ton of people who perceive value in Bisu's ability to multi task faster than anyone else, just like a free kick in soccer. Also, have you been living under a rock? In korea as we speak, the best BROOD WAR players have yet to switch to sc2. Why? Because their fan base is so huge and they make so so much more money than any sc2 progamer. Girls faint at the sight of Bisu, people come from other countries to cheer on stork, and 500,000 people flood korean beaches to see the pro league finals. Their are e-sports stadiums, it has happened, please view the rest of this website and youll find it all over the place.
On April 12 2011 19:47 Markwerf wrote: SC2 on TV will never be big indeed but I can see it still getting some airtime on cheap air time perhaps.
If there is one thing that counts for e-sports on TV is that it has a very low production cost. A broadcast of sc2 would be incredibly cheap to make so perhaps it can be run on one of those hours where the networks are running another re-run of some show instead. I also don't really agree why sc2 can not be cut easily, it would be very easy to chop long games into short ones by just showing the critical opening moves and then showing some critical fights later on. Sure it would lose lots of people who rather watch entire games but it is the same with poker really, poker broadcasts are horrible because they only show all-in hands whereas anyone good at the game hardly cares about those.
E-sports will never be really big on TV or in general though I think. It lacks too many things for that to happen. First of all the market is way too fragmented, there are hundreds of games over many different genres and thus not one game is anywhere close to the numbers of players sports like football, tennis etc. have. Secondly, the top players never really have any charisma. They are not attractice, muscled guys but people who sit indoors entire days practicing their game, it just doesn't appeal to the big audience as they aren't the traditional players that can be worshipped. Clans and clubs are also not really comparible in the way people associate with it, it's not like clans have a stadium or any real fanbase that is devoted to the clan regardless of players playing for it like clubs do. Finally there isn't a single game with as much appeal to viewers as some of the top sports have. There are no astonishing feats of strength or dexterity that anyone that never played the game can enjoy. A headshot in a FPS or a perfect cheese in a RTS just don't compare to a perfect free kick in football or a massive dunk in basketball.
OK dude now your taking the wrong route. The reason sc2 will not be on tv ultimately is because of commercials, not because of whatever belittlement of e-sports you can come up with. Their are more than a ton of people who perceive value in Bisu's ability to multi task faster than anyone else, just like a free kick in soccer. Also, have you been living under a rock? In korea as we speak, the best BROOD WAR players have yet to switch to sc2. Why? Because their fan base is so huge and they make so so much more money than any sc2 progamer. Girls faint at the sight of Bisu, people come from other countries to cheer on stork, and 500,000 people flood korean beaches to see the pro league finals. Their are e-sports stadiums, it has happened, please view the rest of this website and youll find it all over the place.
You are so wrong in your view about commercials it's not even funny. The way you describe it is the ameracan way. Here in Europe things are way different. There are tons of sports that vary in length and are commercial free untill the game ends and they have multimillion people watching all over Europe. I am not saying SC2 will generate such numbers i am just pointing how wrong you are about commercials.
Good read. While I don't feel competent enough to comment on the whole issue, I'd like to add one thing:
On April 12 2011 11:18 Kennigit wrote: Why Starcraft should never be on Western Television. 1. Easy to edit while maintaining the narrative. Unlike a broadcasted strategy game like poker where the scene (television scene, not community) is compact (1 hand, 1 hand, commercial, 1 hand, 2 hands, commercial etc.) and easily interchangeable, Starcraft does not allow quick or easy editing decisions. Without former Starcraft players on hand in an editing both, you would be left with a chopped down product – missed building placements, missed timings, and a raging viewer base. This isn't really a negotiable point. Games would HAVE to be edited and cut to allows for a commercial in the middle. A TV station simply cant run a 45 minute game without commercials in North America and still remain profitable.
I don't know anything about TV in the US but Eurosport is broadcasting Snooker for quite some time now and they only make commercial breaks between the frames, no matter if it's some crazy 10 minute frame or 40 minutes of tactical back and forth.
Edit: Not to mention the untouchable 45 + X minutes of soccer.
The only point I disagree on is the format of SC2 on television. Football matches allow for 45 minutes of games into commercials. The point here is the build up. Generally goes like Introduction, commercial, analysis (why Man U is going to crush Tranmere Rovers), commercial players running onto pitch etc, commercial. First half, commercial, little more analysis, commercial. Second Half, end of broadcast. Other television broadcasts do entire shows or films with only commercials in between (SBS in Australia, at least they did 6 years ago). SC2 might not exactly lend itself to television but it could be done profitably.
Of course all the other points are completely valid, targeting the casual will almost always ensure the hardcore fans won't watch. And that is why we most likely won't see SC2 on television any time soon.
On April 12 2011 19:52 gk_ender wrote: Barcelona can be up 3 goals and you can easily say jeez they are creaming them, after the game has started.
Goals should be counted as game won, in a sense its the same as SC2 where you can say, wow MVP is up 3-0 and is creaming MKP
Seeing an advantage in sc2 is harder than seeing and advantage anywhere else, again because if manchester is doing slightly better than chelsea, a goal will tell the tale.
but if Manchester is doing slightly better then Chelsea at 0-0 people cant tell which team is 'ahead', thus they relied on the commentator to say something like, 'oh Manc have held the ball better and created more chances than Chelsea' and so far have the advantage
just like Tartosis would say of he lost his stalker/zealot and now at a disadvantage, etc
I think I disagree with the claim that the difference between the casual and hardcore audiences is that much higher for sc2 than for other sports .There is always a gap between those who understand/play a sport in every single sport. If I see Ronaldo make an excellent feint and I play soccer, I can appreciate (almost physically) the complexity and intentionality of each move he makes, as well as the reaction from the defender. A person who hasn't played soccer cannot appreciate this, in fact they might not even be aware that it was a feint. Yet they can enjoy seeing it, why?
The answer is conformity and self-delusion, about 1/4(or less) of most soccer audiences actually understands what is going on and appreciates it. I bet that more than 75% of the people who watched at least 1 World Championship match could not explain what an offside is. The people who trigger the emotion and appreciation within the group to which the group conforms are those who understand the game - the rest just conforms. Why do those people who do not understand soccer watch it in the 1st place anyway?
1/ It's a social activity 2/ There's group identities clashing - nationalities/teams 3/ It's a public event that everyone is expected to know about - ie: it is the social norm to know what happened in a soccer match
None of these 3 aspects is universally true for Starcraft 2, but nor were they true for soccer when soccer started out as a sport. Aspect 2/ can be fullfilled very easily and it's perhaps even funny how much attention the World vs. Korea brings out already at this time. Aspect 1/ has to develop over time, but LANs and chats on on-line streams clearly show that this is clearly possible as well. The problem is with Aspect 3/, which is perhaps the most important one in attracting large casual audiences. Personally, I think that it can only become true for starcraft 2, when more than 75% of the population has actually played an RTS sometime in their life. So, Starcraft 10 on 'TV', yes maybe in 2035 and it could be really succesful.
However, popular culture and culture in general develops slowly and even though Starcraft 2 is in many ways an icebreaker in RTS gaming culture, there is no way it's going to become a part of popular culture, and hence there will be no real point broadcasting it on National TV except as a part of a larger competition - noone watches 100m sprints, but many people watch them as a part of the olympics.
Every sport has its own complexities and is effectively a niche. It can only be marketed to larger casual audiences once it's very widespread, has group identity clashes and is a social activity. And so it would be a mistake for any sports show for a relatively small auedience ie.: 50000-100000 to try and market itself for a larger casual audience, not just for starcraft 2. The story needs to be there for the normal audience to watch regularly and to watch the otherwise less interesting matches, it can pull some casual audience, but it's not the most important factor in that.
What is it that people so desperately want their pastime to be validated by the mainstream? Even if there was little money in SC2, we'd still get tournaments, we'd still have a community. In fact, if there was a lot of money involved, isn't it more likely than not that players would stop participating on teamliquid so often? Maybe they'd have teams and managers that would 'manage' their appearance. So honestly, I don't even care for e-sports as in "getting more and more sponsors and people watching". SC2 for me is mostly a game that I play on occasion, and with a community of players better and worse than me that I follow. As it is, becoming a top player is still within reach of pretty much anyone: you just need to practice and then one day you might be able to compete. If there was an entire corporate infrastructure, then suddenly there's so much distance between pro players and the community. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, but I doubt it's without any drawbacks.
Honestly, I find your post very narrow minded, and it looks like you were writing it with some massive tunnel vision going on.
Some of your points counter argue them selves without you even knowing it.
The main thing that stands out to me is the fact you point out that Poker is on TV, and then use this as a reason why SC2 can't be on TV?
As someone who had never played poker before seeing it on TV, I got to tell you its actually extremely complicated. Its definitely not something you can learn in, as you say, "2-3 minutes of watching".
There is no real reason why eSports can't be on TV other than the fact that it's complicated and not easy to understand what's happening straight away. But that's still the same with most sports, and there are a number tactics that can be used to tackle that.
As already mentioned by some in this thread, I don't think commercials should take any part of the argument of why sc2 shouldn't be on TV. However, I do agree that putting sc2 on TV would result in a fiasco. The main points as I see it is: 1: the game is way too complex. There's an obvious goal (to kill your opponent structures), but how to get there wouldn't make sense to most people. 2: the following is just way too small. You might be overwhelmed by how many attends MLGs and the 50k TSL viewers. Compared to other sports, that really isn't impressive. What you are impressed about is "despite it being an esport, it gets that many viewers". 3: Computer gamers are nerds. The general western population is still not able to accept someone, who spends 8 hours a day on a computer game, as a star. This is also really where one can see the difference between western and korean culture.
Don't you think that with Digital Television, and ads being able to be added just like on a browser, it could open possibilities for having advertisement without having breaks?
my point is not that its harder to watch alone it was that simply put, more people watch it in some form of together than alone. You counted the number of posts, not the number of views, which tell a much different story (though i realise at that point it much harder to diferentiate reloads ect), but there are way more people that read along than actually post, and that is signifigant. But again that has nothing to do with tv, mereley saying people watch it very socially. And to put the understanding sc2 simply, there are no points. You can not look at a score (besides how many games someone is up) and you can not count his chips to say he is in the lead.
Your point being what exactly? How does this relate to SC2 having no chance on say an e-sports dedicated TV channel? SC2 is far from the only sport where someone "suddenly" wins.
Barcelona can be up 3 goals and you can easily say jeez they are creaming them, after the game has started. Without the casters (which good casters try to avoid saying who is really ahead or behind for excitement value) you have no clue (again assuming you know nothing), and even they get it wrong. Seeing an advantage in sc2 is harder than seeing and advantage anywhere else, again because if manchester is doing slightly better than chelsea, a goal will tell the tale. Easy to watch, now to the trained eye we can all watch that champions league game and say wow manchester got lucky (opinion i know) but the point is the average joe can go hm manchester is winning. Sc2 is not that easy unless you play it, and even then play it well (well being defined as much more rudimentary than master league, but instead the difference between a top bronze player and a custom game player).
I had the feeling that I had a basic understanding of the game from the moment I started watching. Not because I'm uberskilled but because it's just that easy to get into. I got that after player X lost his army that he's behind. I got that after player X got supply blocked for 2 minutes he's behind etc. All it takes is a slight fermilliarity with the game. (That "bump" I mentioned earlier)
And unless playing a little single player brood war 10 years ago and watching #100 daily counts as the preparation you claim it takes to follow a game of starcraft then I think you're still overestimating how difficult it is to enjoy SC2 matches.
As for commercials, again its the profitability thing. You can show better commercials, by better i mean more expensive, and theyll buy in less frequency in poker. In sc2 you have to have a ton of commercials because of the demographic and perceived value of it. We are not assumed to be a high spending demographic therefore the commercial airtime will be cheaper, and must then be sold more to accommodated. Look at football or baseball. Further sc2 has much more going on than poker, ironically it has a bit of poker in it, between hands go for it, after a table has finished sure. But yu can not show a commercial in the middle of a game, it does not work, and that is what poker does to compensate. It doesnt matter in poker because if a big hand happens they can cut back or even better when they cut to commercial they can stop the game, that can not happen in sc, and is why it is such a headache to edit. In which we come to my original point, lengths of games are different, and since you cant play commercials during, you no longer have stable time to sell
Why wouldn't it be possible to air commercials? I'm sure commercial deals come in all shapes and sizes, whether it is airing 5 minutes at a very specific time to making sure that an X amount of hours within an X amount of weeks/months etc.
I am by no means an expert at commercials, as a matter of fact I probably know very little about this topic.
However what I do know is that people will be in lining up to spent their cash if you got a decent enough demographic. Which is what I'm argueing for. That there's no reason why there couldn't be a decent enough demographic for SC2.
Seeing an advantage in sc2 is harder than seeing and advantage anywhere else, again because if manchester is doing slightly better than chelsea, a goal will tell the tale.
but if Manchester is doing slightly better then Chelsea at 0-0 people cant tell which team is 'ahead', thus they relied on the commentator to say something like, 'oh Manc have held the ball better and created more chances than Chelsea' and so far have the advantage
just like Tartosis would say of he lost his stalker/zealot and now at a disadvantage, etc
Its about the during game, yes if mvp is up 3-0 its easy. But then why watch the game, its about what your seeing happen before because the vast your interested in the game. What im saying is in game, you can see that barcelona is ahead while they are playing, it is much different in sc2. And what i was saying wasnt is manchester doing better than chelsea at 0-0. Im saying, first that chelsea was the better team and manchester got lucky.... But mainly that manchester was ahead 1-0, and a i can turn to the game at any point and see that manchester is up 1-0 whether i understand soccer or not. Now again anybody will tell you they got lucky, but that is the sort of thing that understanding brings, and again if im a casual viewer casually catching a game, i do not know what i am seeing when i watch sc2
On April 12 2011 19:47 Markwerf wrote: SC2 on TV will never be big indeed but I can see it still getting some airtime on cheap air time perhaps.
If there is one thing that counts for e-sports on TV is that it has a very low production cost. A broadcast of sc2 would be incredibly cheap to make so perhaps it can be run on one of those hours where the networks are running another re-run of some show instead. I also don't really agree why sc2 can not be cut easily, it would be very easy to chop long games into short ones by just showing the critical opening moves and then showing some critical fights later on. Sure it would lose lots of people who rather watch entire games but it is the same with poker really, poker broadcasts are horrible because they only show all-in hands whereas anyone good at the game hardly cares about those.
E-sports will never be really big on TV or in general though I think. It lacks too many things for that to happen. First of all the market is way too fragmented, there are hundreds of games over many different genres and thus not one game is anywhere close to the numbers of players sports like football, tennis etc. have. Secondly, the top players never really have any charisma. They are not attractice, muscled guys but people who sit indoors entire days practicing their game, it just doesn't appeal to the big audience as they aren't the traditional players that can be worshipped. Clans and clubs are also not really comparible in the way people associate with it, it's not like clans have a stadium or any real fanbase that is devoted to the clan regardless of players playing for it like clubs do. Finally there isn't a single game with as much appeal to viewers as some of the top sports have. There are no astonishing feats of strength or dexterity that anyone that never played the game can enjoy. A headshot in a FPS or a perfect cheese in a RTS just don't compare to a perfect free kick in football or a massive dunk in basketball.
OK dude now your taking the wrong route. The reason sc2 will not be on tv ultimately is because of commercials, not because of whatever belittlement of e-sports you can come up with. Their are more than a ton of people who perceive value in Bisu's ability to multi task faster than anyone else, just like a free kick in soccer. Also, have you been living under a rock? In korea as we speak, the best BROOD WAR players have yet to switch to sc2. Why? Because their fan base is so huge and they make so so much more money than any sc2 progamer. Girls faint at the sight of Bisu, people come from other countries to cheer on stork, and 500,000 people flood korean beaches to see the pro league finals. Their are e-sports stadiums, it has happened, please view the rest of this website and youll find it all over the place.
You are so wrong in your view about commercials it's not even funny. The way you describe it is the ameracan way. Here in Europe things are way different. There are tons of sports that vary in length and are commercial free untill the game ends and they have multimillion people watching all over Europe. I am not saying SC2 will generate such numbers i am just pointing how wrong you are about commercials.
I don't live in Europe and have never watched European television and I still know that you are way off in assuming that European broadcasting of sports doesn't revolve around advertising. It may not have commercials every 15 minutes but it still has loads of advertisements plastered everywhere. Also the comparison of an actual sport compared to SC2 in terms of popularity and viewer numbers is worlds apart, so it would be extremely unprofitable to show SC2 on television without commercials for 45 minutes at a time and would just not happen, not even in Europe.
On April 12 2011 19:52 gk_ender wrote: Barcelona can be up 3 goals and you can easily say jeez they are creaming them, after the game has started.
Goals should be counted as game won, in a sense its the same as SC2 where you can say, wow MVP is up 3-0 and is creaming MKP
Seeing an advantage in sc2 is harder than seeing and advantage anywhere else, again because if manchester is doing slightly better than chelsea, a goal will tell the tale.
but if Manchester is doing slightly better then Chelsea at 0-0 people cant tell which team is 'ahead', thus they relied on the commentator to say something like, 'oh Manc have held the ball better and created more chances than Chelsea' and so far have the advantage
just like Tartosis would say of he lost his stalker/zealot and now at a disadvantage, etc
Its about the during game, yes if mvp is up 3-0 its easy. But then why watch the game, its about what your seeing happen before because the vast your interested in the game. What im saying is in game, you can see that barcelona is ahead while they are playing, it is much different in sc2.And what i was saying wasnt is manchester doing better than chelsea at 0-0. Im saying, first that chelsea was the better team and manchester got lucky.... But mainly that manchester was ahead 1-0, and a i can turn to the game at any point and see that manchester is up 1-0 whether i understand soccer or not. Now again anybody will tell you they got lucky, but that is the sort of thing that understanding brings, and again if im a casual viewer casually catching a game, i do not know what i am seeing when i watch sc2
Thats why I said to consider a series as a match and goals as game won. Because before the goal is scored/a match is won, anything can happen. MVP can move-command his whole army to MKP siege line and lost the game (akin to a dominating team scored a stupid own goal) and after that point what we have is MKP 1 - MVP 0 and we go to the next game, likewise it would be Liverpool 1 - Barcelona 0 and we continue and looks for more goals
if you start watching at this point, there's no way you would know which team is the dominating / better one, thats why you then refer to the commentator to give you that information
my point is not that its harder to watch alone it was that simply put, more people watch it in some form of together than alone. You counted the number of posts, not the number of views, which tell a much different story (though i realise at that point it much harder to diferentiate reloads ect), but there are way more people that read along than actually post, and that is signifigant. But again that has nothing to do with tv, mereley saying people watch it very socially. And to put the understanding sc2 simply, there are no points. You can not look at a score (besides how many games someone is up) and you can not count his chips to say he is in the lead.
Your point being what exactly? How does this relate to SC2 having no chance on say an e-sports dedicated TV channel? SC2 is far from the only sport where someone "suddenly" wins.
Barcelona can be up 3 goals and you can easily say jeez they are creaming them, after the game has started. Without the casters (which good casters try to avoid saying who is really ahead or behind for excitement value) you have no clue (again assuming you know nothing), and even they get it wrong. Seeing an advantage in sc2 is harder than seeing and advantage anywhere else, again because if manchester is doing slightly better than chelsea, a goal will tell the tale. Easy to watch, now to the trained eye we can all watch that champions league game and say wow manchester got lucky (opinion i know) but the point is the average joe can go hm manchester is winning. Sc2 is not that easy unless you play it, and even then play it well (well being defined as much more rudimentary than master league, but instead the difference between a top bronze player and a custom game player).
I had the feeling that I had a basic understanding of the game from the moment I started watching. Not because I'm uberskilled but because it's just that easy to get into. I got that after player X lost his army that he's behind. I got that after player X got supply blocked for 2 minutes he's behind etc. All it takes is a slight fermilliarity with the game. (That "bump" I mentioned earlier)
And unless playing a little single player brood war 10 years ago and watching #100 daily counts as the preparation you claim it takes to follow a game of starcraft then I think you're still overestimating how difficult it is to enjoy SC2 matches.
As for commercials, again its the profitability thing. You can show better commercials, by better i mean more expensive, and theyll buy in less frequency in poker. In sc2 you have to have a ton of commercials because of the demographic and perceived value of it. We are not assumed to be a high spending demographic therefore the commercial airtime will be cheaper, and must then be sold more to accommodated. Look at football or baseball. Further sc2 has much more going on than poker, ironically it has a bit of poker in it, between hands go for it, after a table has finished sure. But yu can not show a commercial in the middle of a game, it does not work, and that is what poker does to compensate. It doesnt matter in poker because if a big hand happens they can cut back or even better when they cut to commercial they can stop the game, that can not happen in sc, and is why it is such a headache to edit. In which we come to my original point, lengths of games are different, and since you cant play commercials during, you no longer have stable time to sell
Why wouldn't it be possible to air commercials? I'm sure commercial deals come in all shapes and sizes, whether it is airing 5 minutes at a very specific time to making sure that an X amount of hours within an X amount of weeks/months etc.
I am by no means an expert at commercials, as a matter of fact I probably know very little about this topic.
However what I do know is that people will be in lining up to spent their cash if you got a decent enough demographic. Which is what I'm argueing for. That there's no reason why there couldn't be a decent enough demographic for SC2.
Ok again, you need points so that you can see whats going on clearly. I feel like a broken record but here it goes. If i am casually catching a sc2 broadcast, when i flip the channel, without a score i cant understand whats going on in the middle of the game. You cant watch 2 sc2 games simultaneousness and understand unless you already get the game, unlike basketball where i can say ok knicks are up 32-18 flip ok steelers are down a goal. And you have yet to see what sc2 will bring. Games are going to get much much much closer, and i feel like a lot of people in this thread havent watched brood war, which is ok, but when players skill goes up, the things happen so so suddenly it is near impossible to discern. Sc2 hasnt gotten there yet but it will. At the moment it is like you say, one guy loses his army hes behind. But soon you will see, how can you tell if someone is fighting back into the game, how can you tell when hes not? For example, sometimes drops look great, but are terribly ineffective, or maybe your behind and it got you ahead, damage dealt is really really hard to see unless you already understand the game. or better, a guy just lost his army, hes behind right? Not at all, sometimes you do it on purpose matter of fact. And no this isnt 8 base vs 2 base ideas, hell sometimes its not even a black and white as 3 base on 2 base. Sometimes its 2 base on 2 base and guy throws his army at the other army, loses it and is still ahead, and its obvious to everyone who knows the game, but not to anyone who doesnt. This is not by any means some rare case, this is what will happen, weve been watching starcraft for years, the reason why the strategey thread is painful to read is it will be full of players who don't actually understand whats going on, and that is the thing, they tend to watch for a minute, misunderstand, and move on. And that is the issue hes talking about. You would have to dumb the game down, have everything explained, which in turn kills the game for the hardcore viewers. You can not please both And
On April 12 2011 20:24 gk_ender wrote: Its about the during game, yes if mvp is up 3-0 its easy. But then why watch the game, its about what your seeing happen before because the vast your interested in the game. What im saying is in game, you can see that barcelona is ahead while they are playing, it is much different in sc2. And what i was saying wasnt is manchester doing better than chelsea at 0-0. Im saying, first that chelsea was the better team and manchester got lucky.... But mainly that manchester was ahead 1-0, and a i can turn to the game at any point and see that manchester is up 1-0 whether i understand soccer or not. Now again anybody will tell you they got lucky, but that is the sort of thing that understanding brings, and again if im a casual viewer casually catching a game, i do not know what i am seeing when i watch sc2
i believe that point is completly void .
soccer : barca can have 70% ball position and bairen can have the lead from one fast break. your abillity to see who is "in the lead" in soccer is flawed , and its not important to it success.
SC2: you delude yourself if you think its take special mind to understand sc2 match.
Sister: who is leading ? Me: you see MVP has 120 food army while MKP has 80 food army their both on equal bases so they can build stuff at the same speed. MKP is behind and need to do something special to be back into it. its really not that hard to understand enough to enjoy ... tastosis doing damn good job explaining about the corrent situation.
why people want it on TV that much ?
well as i wrote before a lot more Money will go into the game. production value , more reward for the players effort , better quality of games and show. money -> more time and effort -> better product .
yes what we have now makes me happy , but it can be so much more ..
*que dream* i would love being able to go one day to a 50k stadium fully packed for the world championship which will have jinro vs Mc fighting for the 9th world championship and the right to be named the first bonjowa of sc2.
i would love to have my son come to me after he watched on tv sc5 commentator explaining the origins of the game , and i would proudly tell him about how i reached gold divition while using mouse and keybord to play games. and although he want to be a big esport star he still have to finish his homework assigment **
i just trully enjoy esport , and would love it to get better . and inorder to get better you need more exposure - easy way for exposure this days is TV. soccer had to start from somewhere , korean esport had to start from somewhere,
western esport have to start from somewhere, we have great start , but it really should be only the start.
On April 12 2011 19:52 gk_ender wrote: Barcelona can be up 3 goals and you can easily say jeez they are creaming them, after the game has started.
Goals should be counted as game won, in a sense its the same as SC2 where you can say, wow MVP is up 3-0 and is creaming MKP
Seeing an advantage in sc2 is harder than seeing and advantage anywhere else, again because if manchester is doing slightly better than chelsea, a goal will tell the tale.
but if Manchester is doing slightly better then Chelsea at 0-0 people cant tell which team is 'ahead', thus they relied on the commentator to say something like, 'oh Manc have held the ball better and created more chances than Chelsea' and so far have the advantage
just like Tartosis would say of he lost his stalker/zealot and now at a disadvantage, etc
Its about the during game, yes if mvp is up 3-0 its easy. But then why watch the game, its about what your seeing happen before because the vast your interested in the game. What im saying is in game, you can see that barcelona is ahead while they are playing, it is much different in sc2.And what i was saying wasnt is manchester doing better than chelsea at 0-0. Im saying, first that chelsea was the better team and manchester got lucky.... But mainly that manchester was ahead 1-0, and a i can turn to the game at any point and see that manchester is up 1-0 whether i understand soccer or not. Now again anybody will tell you they got lucky, but that is the sort of thing that understanding brings, and again if im a casual viewer casually catching a game, i do not know what i am seeing when i watch sc2
Thats why I said to consider a series as a match and goals as game won. Because before the goal is scored/a match is won, anything can happen. MVP can move-command his whole army to MKP siege line and lost the game (akin to a dominating team scored a stupid own goal) and after that point what we have is MKP 1 - MVP 0 and we go to the next game, likewise it would be Liverpool 1 - Barcelona 0 and we continue and looks for more goals
if you start watching at this point, there's no way you would know which team is the dominating / better one, thats why you then refer to the commentator to give you that information
But then your simply watching for the results. What im saying isnt simply ok, manchester is up....how do i put this. Where is the excitement in reading that mvp, what is exciting is that hes wining. And manchester wining is exciting when im a casual fan whether or not i understand that theyre doing worse. I can see a goal, he scored it. But when you say ok well hes up one game, who cares ab the game? Why are you watching the game if your excitement comes from simply viewing a stat screen. you want to, while the game is happening, feel the rising motion, say omg were gunna win, holy shit can he pull it off. Come backs like marine king primes against mvp become pointless if you cant see whats happening and why. Its the difference between cool hes coming back he won a game, and holy shit hes ahead, he should win this. What i am saying is when your a casual person, you can see shots on a goal, actual goals, crosses, free kicks and penalties, everyone gets that, i have to score a goal to win here i go. But how to win in sc2 is simple yes, but shots on goal are like drops, penalties are like misplaced units, and you can not tell whats working and what isnt unless you understand. The games you see now barley show off where this game is going, there will be a point when literally there will be to much for a caster to explain all at once, and if he does he kills the game for the hardcore because he wont be noticing something. its a complexity issue that just simply spirals out of control and what ends up happening is you cant please me and gf who doesnt watch sc2 with the same program
EPT
