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On April 05 2011 02:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 02:05 OutlaW- wrote:
Considering that 25$ is about the cost of going to the cinema with 2 + popcorn and coke, I'd say it's a damn fine deal. can you people stop using the argument? its so pointless on so many levels.... little example : Teamliquid now costs 100$ a year to access. according to your comparison thats a super awesome deal right ? and still it would never work and would hurt TL and the community way way more then it could ever do good.
Yeah except accessing a website is completely off topic. We are talking about WATCHING something. So for the price of two movies, you got probably around x100 times the content doing something similar, watching for entertainment purposes.
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On April 05 2011 02:21 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 02:19 Marou wrote:
So i guess they won't be releasing replays & VODs for people without pass just like GSL. So i guess i won't be following NASL that much. This is really sad, hopefully others organizers won't copy this system which is preveting the vast majority of the community to actually see the games.
This is SO sad i hoped NASL would have done something more similar to European organizers and have free VODs.
At least they could provide the replays for free, now i know i'll be missing almost every game of NASL because i don't want to pay for SC2 Content. It's actually not sad at all, if you want to follow an awesome tournament either watch it live or pay for some quality entertainment.
to quote myself from earlier pages :
so people from different timezones,different schedules etc all dont matter?
as i wrote above a system like ESL uses is 100% fine. free stream/vod, pay some for HQ stream/vod.
but this model cuts out a HUGE proportion of the viewers and unlike with events like TSL etc i cant tell my random ex guildies /friends to go watch gsl/nasl because either they pay or just cant follow it.
so i dont really get how anyone can say this model doesnt lock out thousands of people and the bigger part of the potential viewerbase.
btw little story. at the start of sc2/gsl quite some of my random noober mates watched gsl aton and they loved it. recorded restreams and vods were available evrywhere.
now that this isnt the case anymore not a SINGLE ONE of them is watching gsl. some watched iem/tsl etc. but i can 100% assure you that they will never ever go back to gsl or watch nasl.
its sad. and you can already see that tons of people are deciding between nasl and gsl.
what if the next big league wants to force that model trhough too? now the viewercommunity is split like never before and one will fail.
for me this somewhat killed NASL. when i randomly have time to watch it live then i will. but thats all which is sad since i was kinda hyped for it. and thousands of others feel the same way.
i wish them all the best but as i said in another post , talking about "growing esports" and "get more people into sc2!" and then using such a model is either hypocrisy or ignorance.
On April 05 2011 02:23 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 02:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On April 05 2011 02:05 OutlaW- wrote:
Considering that 25$ is about the cost of going to the cinema with 2 + popcorn and coke, I'd say it's a damn fine deal. can you people stop using the argument? its so pointless on so many levels.... little example : Teamliquid now costs 100$ a year to access. according to your comparison thats a super awesome deal right ? and still it would never work and would hurt TL and the community way way more then it could ever do good. Yeah except accessing a website is completely off topic. We are talking about WATCHING something. So for the price of two movies, you got probably around x100 times the content doing something similar, watching for entertainment purposes.
and if i get sky or whatever premium TV stuff i get 1000x the content doing something similar . you are cherry picking and using bad comparisons that play in totally different worlds. like many others.
also try to get "free" high quality movies in legal ways. now try to get free high quality sc2 content in legal ways. see a difference?
also movie sales are what funds the whole industry. for sports that is not the case, sports are build on sponsoring. again a huge difference.
its just in no way shape or form a decent argument.
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On April 05 2011 02:28 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 02:21 Karthane wrote:On April 05 2011 02:19 Marou wrote:
So i guess they won't be releasing replays & VODs for people without pass just like GSL. So i guess i won't be following NASL that much. This is really sad, hopefully others organizers won't copy this system which is preveting the vast majority of the community to actually see the games.
This is SO sad i hoped NASL would have done something more similar to European organizers and have free VODs.
At least they could provide the replays for free, now i know i'll be missing almost every game of NASL because i don't want to pay for SC2 Content. It's actually not sad at all, if you want to follow an awesome tournament either watch it live or pay for some quality entertainment. to quote myself from earlier pages : Show nested quote +so people from different timezones,different schedules etc all dont matter?
as i wrote above a system like ESL uses is 100% fine. free stream/vod, pay some for HQ stream/vod.
but this model cuts out a HUGE proportion of the viewers and unlike with events like TSL etc i cant tell my random ex guildies /friends to go watch gsl/nasl because either they pay or just cant follow it.
so i dont really get how anyone can say this model doesnt lock out thousands of people and the bigger part of the potential viewerbase.
btw little story. at the start of sc2/gsl quite some of my random noober mates watched gsl aton and they loved it. recorded restreams and vods were available evrywhere.
now that this isnt the case anymore not a SINGLE ONE of them is watching gsl. some watched iem/tsl etc. but i can 100% assure you that they will never ever go back to gsl or watch nasl. its sad. and you can already see that tons of people are deciding between nasl and gsl. what if the next big league wants to force that model trhough too? now the viewercommunity is split like never before and one will fail. for me this somewhat killed NASL. when i randomly have time to watch it live then i will. but thats all which is sad since i was kinda hyped for it. and thousands of others feel the same way. i wish them all the best but as i said in another post , talking about "growing esports" and "get more people into sc2!" and then using such a model is either hypocrisy or ignorance.
Well on the topic of different timezones, you do realize that they are going to restream the matches at a time more convenient for European viewers, right?
Obviously everything would be better if it was free, but the NASL guys have put a lot of money, time, and effort into what they are doing and i am sure they expect to make atleast a little bit of money back, or else this type of thing will not last long at all.
E-sports is still growing so some of these things are going to have to be paid for, and if you aren't willing to pay then you will have two opportunities to watch...either live, or a few hours later when the matches are re-streamed via NASL.
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On April 05 2011 01:07 SilverJohnny wrote:
Both iNc and NASL are right. It starts April 11th technically, but the first broadcast will be on the 12th.
So matches will be played on the 11th and streamed on the 12th?
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On April 02 2011 04:41 Jerax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2011 04:36 CptGrackSparrow wrote:
» Minimal commercial interruption
Yeah, I don't think so. Can't see the logic behind paying for it and having to watch commercials as well.
Right, because there are no commercials on cable TV....wait a minute.
The costs per hours of entertainment is amazing if you add it up. Commericals are the way to justify larger prize pools, more games, more leagues and more Starcraft 2. After the MLG and its lackluster formate and stream, I am more than happy to shell out $20-$25.
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On April 05 2011 02:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2011 04:41 Jerax wrote:On April 02 2011 04:36 CptGrackSparrow wrote:
» Minimal commercial interruption
Yeah, I don't think so. Can't see the logic behind paying for it and having to watch commercials as well. Right, because there are no commercials on cable TV....wait a minute. The costs per hours of entertainment is amazing if you add it up. Commericals are the way to justify larger prize pools, more games, more leagues and more Starcraft 2. After the MLG and its lackluster formate and stream, I am more than happy to shell out $20-$25.
Since then they have stated that there will be ZERO commercials if you pay, so yeah. If that was ever an issue it's been resolved.
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25 bucks is not much.
My biggest concern are the casters. A big reason why I watch the GSL is because of Tastosis. Those two have an awesome chemistry and it feels like I'm tuning into a great talkshow AND watching the best SC2 players/games at the same time.
Gretorp and Incontrol doesn't have that "wow" factor for me (I believe it's those two casting?!).
Western e-sports needs to have the best casters available. One of them is definetely Day[9]. All he needs is a good sidekick.
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On April 05 2011 02:28 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:to quote myself from earlier pages : Show nested quote +so people from different timezones,different schedules etc all dont matter?its just in no way shape or form a decent argument.
The NASL FAQ says they will be re-streaming the games the following day for European viewers on the LQ stream.
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It may have been said before but I haven't seen it so for those with shorter memory spans GSL was $20 per open season 1-3. You got $5 off if you were a repeat subscriber. So for less than half the content they charged approximitaly the same amount as NASL. While the production value was high it wasn't what it is today. So before you compare GSL to NASL too much remember to compare the start of GSL to the start of NASL.
As for me, I've purchased a season pass for every GSL and got my NASL pass the first day it was offered.
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On April 05 2011 02:33 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 02:28 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On April 05 2011 02:21 Karthane wrote:On April 05 2011 02:19 Marou wrote:
So i guess they won't be releasing replays & VODs for people without pass just like GSL. So i guess i won't be following NASL that much. This is really sad, hopefully others organizers won't copy this system which is preveting the vast majority of the community to actually see the games.
This is SO sad i hoped NASL would have done something more similar to European organizers and have free VODs.
At least they could provide the replays for free, now i know i'll be missing almost every game of NASL because i don't want to pay for SC2 Content. It's actually not sad at all, if you want to follow an awesome tournament either watch it live or pay for some quality entertainment. to quote myself from earlier pages : so people from different timezones,different schedules etc all dont matter?
as i wrote above a system like ESL uses is 100% fine. free stream/vod, pay some for HQ stream/vod.
but this model cuts out a HUGE proportion of the viewers and unlike with events like TSL etc i cant tell my random ex guildies /friends to go watch gsl/nasl because either they pay or just cant follow it.
so i dont really get how anyone can say this model doesnt lock out thousands of people and the bigger part of the potential viewerbase.
btw little story. at the start of sc2/gsl quite some of my random noober mates watched gsl aton and they loved it. recorded restreams and vods were available evrywhere.
now that this isnt the case anymore not a SINGLE ONE of them is watching gsl. some watched iem/tsl etc. but i can 100% assure you that they will never ever go back to gsl or watch nasl. its sad. and you can already see that tons of people are deciding between nasl and gsl. what if the next big league wants to force that model trhough too? now the viewercommunity is split like never before and one will fail. for me this somewhat killed NASL. when i randomly have time to watch it live then i will. but thats all which is sad since i was kinda hyped for it. and thousands of others feel the same way. i wish them all the best but as i said in another post , talking about "growing esports" and "get more people into sc2!" and then using such a model is either hypocrisy or ignorance. Obviously everything would be better if it was free, but the NASL guys have put a lot of money, time, and effort into what they are doing and i am sure they expect to make atleast a little bit of money back, or else this type of thing will not last long at all.
ofcourse they should make money back. my point is that i dislike that "pay if you cant watch at x time" model . and i rather see a NASL with 100k less prizepool but with free lowquality vods.
and as said ESL is running a free LQ stream/vod , payed HQ stream/vod with super cheap prizes since years across multiple games. its entirely possible to do it.
its a decision they made,not something they had to do. and i strongly disagree with that decision. for reasons i wrote multiple times already in this thread.
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I'd pay to watch Incontrol casting. He has great presence on SotG and has the solid analytical background required to be an effective caster. Pair him with someone like Husky, who is enthusiastic and has a clear voice, and that's a winning combo imo.
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On April 05 2011 02:56 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 02:33 Karthane wrote:On April 05 2011 02:28 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On April 05 2011 02:21 Karthane wrote:On April 05 2011 02:19 Marou wrote:
So i guess they won't be releasing replays & VODs for people without pass just like GSL. So i guess i won't be following NASL that much. This is really sad, hopefully others organizers won't copy this system which is preveting the vast majority of the community to actually see the games.
This is SO sad i hoped NASL would have done something more similar to European organizers and have free VODs.
At least they could provide the replays for free, now i know i'll be missing almost every game of NASL because i don't want to pay for SC2 Content. It's actually not sad at all, if you want to follow an awesome tournament either watch it live or pay for some quality entertainment. to quote myself from earlier pages : so people from different timezones,different schedules etc all dont matter?
as i wrote above a system like ESL uses is 100% fine. free stream/vod, pay some for HQ stream/vod.
but this model cuts out a HUGE proportion of the viewers and unlike with events like TSL etc i cant tell my random ex guildies /friends to go watch gsl/nasl because either they pay or just cant follow it.
so i dont really get how anyone can say this model doesnt lock out thousands of people and the bigger part of the potential viewerbase.
btw little story. at the start of sc2/gsl quite some of my random noober mates watched gsl aton and they loved it. recorded restreams and vods were available evrywhere.
now that this isnt the case anymore not a SINGLE ONE of them is watching gsl. some watched iem/tsl etc. but i can 100% assure you that they will never ever go back to gsl or watch nasl. its sad. and you can already see that tons of people are deciding between nasl and gsl. what if the next big league wants to force that model trhough too? now the viewercommunity is split like never before and one will fail. for me this somewhat killed NASL. when i randomly have time to watch it live then i will. but thats all which is sad since i was kinda hyped for it. and thousands of others feel the same way. i wish them all the best but as i said in another post , talking about "growing esports" and "get more people into sc2!" and then using such a model is either hypocrisy or ignorance. Obviously everything would be better if it was free, but the NASL guys have put a lot of money, time, and effort into what they are doing and i am sure they expect to make atleast a little bit of money back, or else this type of thing will not last long at all. ofcourse they should make money back. my point is that i dislike that "pay if you cant watch at x time" model . and i rather see a NASL with 100k less prizepool but with free lowquality vods. and as said ESL is running a free LQ stream/vod , payed HQ stream/vod with super cheap prizes since years across multiple games. its entirely possible to do it. its a decision they made,not something they had to do. and i strongly disagree with that decision. for reasons i wrote multiple times already in this thread.
I think it's a pretty easy way to monetize a league so I understand doing it from that point of view, but I fundamentally disagree with it. Especially within a community that can't go 4 posts without someone mentioning the growth of esports. Just from that perspective which is more accessible and attractive to a potential new viewer: "hey check out this insane game <links vod>" or "hey tune in between 5-7 pm EST to catch some games"
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So. . . I'm probably missing something really obvious, but where can we actually buy a pass? I don't see anything on their website about it.
Seems like one of those things that should be obvious. I have money and would like to give it to you, but see no way to do it.
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On April 05 2011 03:05 Heraklitus wrote:
So. . . I'm probably missing something really obvious, but where can we actually buy a pass? I don't see anything on their website about it.
Seems like one of those things that should be obvious. I have money and would like to give it to you, but see no way to do it.
http://www.nasl.tv Click top right corner where it says voting closed.
A little odd on their part, i agree.
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Ah, thanks.
They REALLY need to get that real website sorted. . .
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Canada9720 Posts
i'll buy a pass if the first broadcast isn't a flop. that's not a bet or anything, it's just that i really don't know what to expect. with the GSL, i had already watched their BW tourneys and knew that they had pull it off.
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Going 1080p on first season/broadcast is pretty ambitious. Even MLG couldn't pull of going 720p HD this season.
I just hope NASL is backed by a strong broadband provider. Are they working together with justin.tv or something like that? Streaming on their own server seems dangerous...
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On April 02 2011 04:43 eXwOn wrote:I'm not going to initially get a pass. But if word of mouth says NASL is quality entertainment then I will 
Basicly this. Gotta love my bro eXwOn coming in and writing what im basicly going to say for me <3
MAH EDIT:
I dont understand why people think iNcontroL is all that good. Hes an alright player, but I honestly think he doesnt contribute much on SotG. Hell, he charges 100$ an hour and cant even get a webcam (warn / ban me if you wish, but im willing to bet a lot of his money goes into his fruity little "Miss Oregon")
A lot of people are going to expect Tastosis kinda chemistry with the casters, and thats just not going to happen. One of the reasons why I wont buy right away.
I am not a fan of iNcontroL, and I state it publicly (being as respectful as I can as I love TL and I dont want to be banned), but I hope NASL does well in general.
But for now I will not buy a season pass because I was horribly disgusted by how Clash of the Tians went.
User was temp banned for this post.
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What about Pay-Pal? Will it be supported? If so, i will get a pass.. otherwise no
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On April 05 2011 03:01 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 02:56 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On April 05 2011 02:33 Karthane wrote:On April 05 2011 02:28 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On April 05 2011 02:21 Karthane wrote:On April 05 2011 02:19 Marou wrote:
So i guess they won't be releasing replays & VODs for people without pass just like GSL. So i guess i won't be following NASL that much. This is really sad, hopefully others organizers won't copy this system which is preveting the vast majority of the community to actually see the games.
This is SO sad i hoped NASL would have done something more similar to European organizers and have free VODs.
At least they could provide the replays for free, now i know i'll be missing almost every game of NASL because i don't want to pay for SC2 Content. It's actually not sad at all, if you want to follow an awesome tournament either watch it live or pay for some quality entertainment. to quote myself from earlier pages : so people from different timezones,different schedules etc all dont matter?
as i wrote above a system like ESL uses is 100% fine. free stream/vod, pay some for HQ stream/vod.
but this model cuts out a HUGE proportion of the viewers and unlike with events like TSL etc i cant tell my random ex guildies /friends to go watch gsl/nasl because either they pay or just cant follow it.
so i dont really get how anyone can say this model doesnt lock out thousands of people and the bigger part of the potential viewerbase.
btw little story. at the start of sc2/gsl quite some of my random noober mates watched gsl aton and they loved it. recorded restreams and vods were available evrywhere.
now that this isnt the case anymore not a SINGLE ONE of them is watching gsl. some watched iem/tsl etc. but i can 100% assure you that they will never ever go back to gsl or watch nasl. its sad. and you can already see that tons of people are deciding between nasl and gsl. what if the next big league wants to force that model trhough too? now the viewercommunity is split like never before and one will fail. for me this somewhat killed NASL. when i randomly have time to watch it live then i will. but thats all which is sad since i was kinda hyped for it. and thousands of others feel the same way. i wish them all the best but as i said in another post , talking about "growing esports" and "get more people into sc2!" and then using such a model is either hypocrisy or ignorance. Obviously everything would be better if it was free, but the NASL guys have put a lot of money, time, and effort into what they are doing and i am sure they expect to make atleast a little bit of money back, or else this type of thing will not last long at all. ofcourse they should make money back. my point is that i dislike that "pay if you cant watch at x time" model . and i rather see a NASL with 100k less prizepool but with free lowquality vods. and as said ESL is running a free LQ stream/vod , payed HQ stream/vod with super cheap prizes since years across multiple games. its entirely possible to do it. its a decision they made,not something they had to do. and i strongly disagree with that decision. for reasons i wrote multiple times already in this thread. I think it's a pretty easy way to monetize a league so I understand doing it from that point of view, but I fundamentally disagree with it. Especially within a community that can't go 4 posts without someone mentioning the growth of esports. Just from that perspective which is more accessible and attractive to a potential new viewer: "hey check out this insane game <links vod>" or "hey tune in between 5-7 pm EST to catch some games"
exactly. but maybe "growth of esports" now means evrybody should throw xx$ a month at it or get out?
i just dont get how people can keep throwing that "GROW ESPORTS!get more people into it!" around and at the same time defend a model like that. it just makes no sense.
imagine evry league/event would have that model. sc2 would stagnate and viewers would dissapear faster then then it exploded in the last year. you grow things by getting more people into it, build a solid foundation of viewers and sponsors ( its already the by far best and cheapest advertising a company can possibly get) and then expand. not by expanding like crazy , tell evryone "give us money now" , ignore the people who dont and hope the other people that produce free stuff build enough of a fanbase that you can rake in the money.
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EPT
