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On March 18 2011 00:48 Thorantham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 00:41 chenchen wrote:On March 18 2011 00:31 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:24 chenchen wrote:On March 17 2011 23:53 Thorantham wrote:On March 17 2011 23:46 haflo wrote:
i dont understand ...
What matchup do you believe will have a better viewability :
A) Avilio vs pokebunny or B) Idra Vs Ensnare / Zenio ?
A) root 5th guy vs VTT 5th guy or B) July VS Nada ?
seriously anyone with a striaght face can say he preffer A ? cause banning koreans means exectly that.
take any sport ... how many people watch the second league ?
when the last time you heared "no i refuse to watch barca vs real Madrid . there are too many foreiners .... its really hurt my eye to see maci and ronaldo they are not spanish!"
no league worth anything without striving to be the best , and having the best play in them .
Esport will never be worth anything unless it strive and push people to be proffesional and have the best playing thier best , cater to medicore is the oposit of sport .
the moments you need for magic to happen is best player getting thier moves that only they can.
if MJ would be prevented to play because he is too good or his skin color , the nba would not be where it is today.
now that said ,
like all sport in countrys where the imported players are better then the local ones there need to be a safty net to allow locals a chance , but that not equal of allowing locals to be medicore!
its usually something like 40% of the team need to be local -> 20 koreans rest "the world" is what come out from those numbers. this will keep competition level high , while having "forieners" a spot to showcase themself.
they still need to beat koreans in order to be champions , they will still need to strive to be more proffesional in order to do that and have high level skill.
but thats exactly what you want ,
and the story of success will be exactly the magic moments that SC2 will need to be BIG.
otherwise it will exactly like the champion of the second league in england three years ago ,
no one will remmeber.
i am not sure when SC2 will be on television ,
but before that happen top players will have to live the dream and be full proffesionals.
no one watch ANYTHING that people do halfheart .
its not easy for sure m but its been done before,
in any sport begining , in korea .
learn from others.
I would choose A. I don't know who ensnare or zenio are but I've seen Avilo at MLG and I'm familiar with Pokebunny and I see them on the Top 200 lists. I don't stay up to watch the GSL and I don't know the players. Sometimes I even go to watch the local AAA baseball team instead of watching the MLB on TV. Edit: I'd also note that it doesn't seem to me the MLG events are any less exciting and fun to attend because there aren't any Korean players there. I guess you really like watching mediocre games. Koreans active in GSL are miles ahead of 99% of the players in MLG. The average 3600 NA Masters player can qualify for MLG, but even a top 3 MLG finisher would have trouble getting into Code A. I guess you really have complete disregard of the quality of the games and the quality of the players. Mediocre is all relative. Compared to my skill level, and probably the majority of a general viewing audience, all of the games are high level. I'm not sure I can make a specific distinction between a game played by Fruitdealer and one played by Destiny. Nor do I necessarily need to, the competition is just as fun to watch presuming the players are relatively well matched. I can easily point out mistakes made by people in MLG games (I only followed a few players I liked). I could easily point out mistakes in Code A games last season. Better players just deliver more exciting games with their multitasking skills, better unit control, better map awareness . . . and a lot less mistakes. Sure but I'm not sure that is going to be true for a major portion of the viewing audience.
Just who do you think the viewing audience will be? The 'casual' viewer watches Husky commentaries without giving a thought as to whether or not the players in the VOD are Korean.
People watch starcraft for the GAME ITSELF. It's mind-boggling to hear the assertion that people will stop watching the moment they find out that the people playing the game are...
*gasp*
Korean
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On March 18 2011 00:48 Thorantham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 00:41 chenchen wrote:On March 18 2011 00:31 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:24 chenchen wrote:On March 17 2011 23:53 Thorantham wrote:On March 17 2011 23:46 haflo wrote:
i dont understand ...
What matchup do you believe will have a better viewability :
A) Avilio vs pokebunny or B) Idra Vs Ensnare / Zenio ?
A) root 5th guy vs VTT 5th guy or B) July VS Nada ?
seriously anyone with a striaght face can say he preffer A ? cause banning koreans means exectly that.
take any sport ... how many people watch the second league ?
when the last time you heared "no i refuse to watch barca vs real Madrid . there are too many foreiners .... its really hurt my eye to see maci and ronaldo they are not spanish!"
no league worth anything without striving to be the best , and having the best play in them .
Esport will never be worth anything unless it strive and push people to be proffesional and have the best playing thier best , cater to medicore is the oposit of sport .
the moments you need for magic to happen is best player getting thier moves that only they can.
if MJ would be prevented to play because he is too good or his skin color , the nba would not be where it is today.
now that said ,
like all sport in countrys where the imported players are better then the local ones there need to be a safty net to allow locals a chance , but that not equal of allowing locals to be medicore!
its usually something like 40% of the team need to be local -> 20 koreans rest "the world" is what come out from those numbers. this will keep competition level high , while having "forieners" a spot to showcase themself.
they still need to beat koreans in order to be champions , they will still need to strive to be more proffesional in order to do that and have high level skill.
but thats exactly what you want ,
and the story of success will be exactly the magic moments that SC2 will need to be BIG.
otherwise it will exactly like the champion of the second league in england three years ago ,
no one will remmeber.
i am not sure when SC2 will be on television ,
but before that happen top players will have to live the dream and be full proffesionals.
no one watch ANYTHING that people do halfheart .
its not easy for sure m but its been done before,
in any sport begining , in korea .
learn from others.
I would choose A. I don't know who ensnare or zenio are but I've seen Avilo at MLG and I'm familiar with Pokebunny and I see them on the Top 200 lists. I don't stay up to watch the GSL and I don't know the players. Sometimes I even go to watch the local AAA baseball team instead of watching the MLB on TV. Edit: I'd also note that it doesn't seem to me the MLG events are any less exciting and fun to attend because there aren't any Korean players there. I guess you really like watching mediocre games. Koreans active in GSL are miles ahead of 99% of the players in MLG. The average 3600 NA Masters player can qualify for MLG, but even a top 3 MLG finisher would have trouble getting into Code A. I guess you really have complete disregard of the quality of the games and the quality of the players. Mediocre is all relative. Compared to my skill level, and probably the majority of a general viewing audience, all of the games are high level. I'm not sure I can make a specific distinction between a game played by Fruitdealer and one played by Destiny. Nor do I necessarily need to, the competition is just as fun to watch presuming the players are relatively well matched. I can easily point out mistakes made by people in MLG games (I only followed a few players I liked). I could easily point out mistakes in Code A games last season. Better players just deliver more exciting games with their multitasking skills, better unit control, better map awareness . . . and a lot less mistakes. Sure but I'm not sure that is going to be true for a major portion of the viewing audience.
So you'd rather watch the D-league in basketball because you can point out their mistakes rather than watch the NBA?
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On March 18 2011 00:53 Consolidate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 00:48 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:41 chenchen wrote:On March 18 2011 00:31 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:24 chenchen wrote:On March 17 2011 23:53 Thorantham wrote:On March 17 2011 23:46 haflo wrote:
i dont understand ...
What matchup do you believe will have a better viewability :
A) Avilio vs pokebunny or B) Idra Vs Ensnare / Zenio ?
A) root 5th guy vs VTT 5th guy or B) July VS Nada ?
seriously anyone with a striaght face can say he preffer A ? cause banning koreans means exectly that.
take any sport ... how many people watch the second league ?
when the last time you heared "no i refuse to watch barca vs real Madrid . there are too many foreiners .... its really hurt my eye to see maci and ronaldo they are not spanish!"
no league worth anything without striving to be the best , and having the best play in them .
Esport will never be worth anything unless it strive and push people to be proffesional and have the best playing thier best , cater to medicore is the oposit of sport .
the moments you need for magic to happen is best player getting thier moves that only they can.
if MJ would be prevented to play because he is too good or his skin color , the nba would not be where it is today.
now that said ,
like all sport in countrys where the imported players are better then the local ones there need to be a safty net to allow locals a chance , but that not equal of allowing locals to be medicore!
its usually something like 40% of the team need to be local -> 20 koreans rest "the world" is what come out from those numbers. this will keep competition level high , while having "forieners" a spot to showcase themself.
they still need to beat koreans in order to be champions , they will still need to strive to be more proffesional in order to do that and have high level skill.
but thats exactly what you want ,
and the story of success will be exactly the magic moments that SC2 will need to be BIG.
otherwise it will exactly like the champion of the second league in england three years ago ,
no one will remmeber.
i am not sure when SC2 will be on television ,
but before that happen top players will have to live the dream and be full proffesionals.
no one watch ANYTHING that people do halfheart .
its not easy for sure m but its been done before,
in any sport begining , in korea .
learn from others.
I would choose A. I don't know who ensnare or zenio are but I've seen Avilo at MLG and I'm familiar with Pokebunny and I see them on the Top 200 lists. I don't stay up to watch the GSL and I don't know the players. Sometimes I even go to watch the local AAA baseball team instead of watching the MLB on TV. Edit: I'd also note that it doesn't seem to me the MLG events are any less exciting and fun to attend because there aren't any Korean players there. I guess you really like watching mediocre games. Koreans active in GSL are miles ahead of 99% of the players in MLG. The average 3600 NA Masters player can qualify for MLG, but even a top 3 MLG finisher would have trouble getting into Code A. I guess you really have complete disregard of the quality of the games and the quality of the players. Mediocre is all relative. Compared to my skill level, and probably the majority of a general viewing audience, all of the games are high level. I'm not sure I can make a specific distinction between a game played by Fruitdealer and one played by Destiny. Nor do I necessarily need to, the competition is just as fun to watch presuming the players are relatively well matched. I can easily point out mistakes made by people in MLG games (I only followed a few players I liked). I could easily point out mistakes in Code A games last season. Better players just deliver more exciting games with their multitasking skills, better unit control, better map awareness . . . and a lot less mistakes. Sure but I'm not sure that is going to be true for a major portion of the viewing audience. Just who do you think the viewing audience will be? The 'casual' viewer watches Husky commentaries without giving a thought as to whether or not the players in the VOD are Korean. People watch starcraft for the GAME ITSELF. It's mind-boggling to hear the assertion that people will stop watching the moment they find out that the people playing the game are... *gasp* Korean
the casual player also has heard before that koreans are the best at sc. hell, the casual gamer in general has heard that before. it's not just that casual players won't care about region, it's that a tournament is not legit without koreans, and even casual players know that a little bit.
and not to be too dramatic but "people are racist, we can't help it!" was one of the justifications given for japanese-american internment during ww2
i think something like 1/3d NA/EU/KR, with spots for notable players would be good, but as long as it's not just a token amount of koreans it'd be fine with me. more than 5, less than "all"
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I feel like just by allowing the best players, period, will limit some amount of Koreans, as the "lesser" Koreans will not feel they should put in the effort for possible travel when the "top" Koreans are already there. This scenario will allow for the best Koreans, while still keeping plenty of spots for the best foreigners. Just my 2 cents.
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On March 18 2011 00:58 underdawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 00:53 Consolidate wrote:On March 18 2011 00:48 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:41 chenchen wrote:On March 18 2011 00:31 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:24 chenchen wrote:On March 17 2011 23:53 Thorantham wrote:On March 17 2011 23:46 haflo wrote:
i dont understand ...
What matchup do you believe will have a better viewability :
A) Avilio vs pokebunny or B) Idra Vs Ensnare / Zenio ?
A) root 5th guy vs VTT 5th guy or B) July VS Nada ?
seriously anyone with a striaght face can say he preffer A ? cause banning koreans means exectly that.
take any sport ... how many people watch the second league ?
when the last time you heared "no i refuse to watch barca vs real Madrid . there are too many foreiners .... its really hurt my eye to see maci and ronaldo they are not spanish!"
no league worth anything without striving to be the best , and having the best play in them .
Esport will never be worth anything unless it strive and push people to be proffesional and have the best playing thier best , cater to medicore is the oposit of sport .
the moments you need for magic to happen is best player getting thier moves that only they can.
if MJ would be prevented to play because he is too good or his skin color , the nba would not be where it is today.
now that said ,
like all sport in countrys where the imported players are better then the local ones there need to be a safty net to allow locals a chance , but that not equal of allowing locals to be medicore!
its usually something like 40% of the team need to be local -> 20 koreans rest "the world" is what come out from those numbers. this will keep competition level high , while having "forieners" a spot to showcase themself.
they still need to beat koreans in order to be champions , they will still need to strive to be more proffesional in order to do that and have high level skill.
but thats exactly what you want ,
and the story of success will be exactly the magic moments that SC2 will need to be BIG.
otherwise it will exactly like the champion of the second league in england three years ago ,
no one will remmeber.
i am not sure when SC2 will be on television ,
but before that happen top players will have to live the dream and be full proffesionals.
no one watch ANYTHING that people do halfheart .
its not easy for sure m but its been done before,
in any sport begining , in korea .
learn from others.
I would choose A. I don't know who ensnare or zenio are but I've seen Avilo at MLG and I'm familiar with Pokebunny and I see them on the Top 200 lists. I don't stay up to watch the GSL and I don't know the players. Sometimes I even go to watch the local AAA baseball team instead of watching the MLB on TV. Edit: I'd also note that it doesn't seem to me the MLG events are any less exciting and fun to attend because there aren't any Korean players there. I guess you really like watching mediocre games. Koreans active in GSL are miles ahead of 99% of the players in MLG. The average 3600 NA Masters player can qualify for MLG, but even a top 3 MLG finisher would have trouble getting into Code A. I guess you really have complete disregard of the quality of the games and the quality of the players. Mediocre is all relative. Compared to my skill level, and probably the majority of a general viewing audience, all of the games are high level. I'm not sure I can make a specific distinction between a game played by Fruitdealer and one played by Destiny. Nor do I necessarily need to, the competition is just as fun to watch presuming the players are relatively well matched. I can easily point out mistakes made by people in MLG games (I only followed a few players I liked). I could easily point out mistakes in Code A games last season. Better players just deliver more exciting games with their multitasking skills, better unit control, better map awareness . . . and a lot less mistakes. Sure but I'm not sure that is going to be true for a major portion of the viewing audience. Just who do you think the viewing audience will be? The 'casual' viewer watches Husky commentaries without giving a thought as to whether or not the players in the VOD are Korean. People watch starcraft for the GAME ITSELF. It's mind-boggling to hear the assertion that people will stop watching the moment they find out that the people playing the game are... *gasp* Korean the casual player also has heard before that koreans are the best at sc. hell, the casual gamer in general has heard that before. it's not just that casual players won't care about region, it's that a tournament is not legit without koreans, and even casual players know that a little bit. and not to be too dramatic but "people are racist, we can't help it!" was one of the justifications given for japanese-american internment during ww2
I'll agree here. The vast majority of people I know who don't play sc2, but play any video games at all (the target market, face it, you're not going to get people who think games are lame, to suddenly enjoy sc2) know of koreans or at least "asians" dominating in it. If they see no asians in the tournament as you say they'll magically turn into the NASL when they've never been interested in before, they're only going to become slightly interested if at all, wonder where the koreans are, do a google search, and see, oh they were banned from NASL, and play in a tournament called the GSL, then if they care enough, they'll watch the GSL, or if they don't care, they won't do anything, in which case, it wouldn't have mattered whether koreans or not were playing in the NASL. Think about the logical flow of what a viewer would do. C'mon you honestly think, they won't look up who the winner was, and the NASL, how it got started, and then NOT stumble across the fact that the best players were limited or denied play in this tournament?
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On March 18 2011 00:54 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 00:48 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:41 chenchen wrote:On March 18 2011 00:31 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:24 chenchen wrote:On March 17 2011 23:53 Thorantham wrote:On March 17 2011 23:46 haflo wrote:
i dont understand ...
What matchup do you believe will have a better viewability :
A) Avilio vs pokebunny or B) Idra Vs Ensnare / Zenio ?
A) root 5th guy vs VTT 5th guy or B) July VS Nada ?
seriously anyone with a striaght face can say he preffer A ? cause banning koreans means exectly that.
take any sport ... how many people watch the second league ?
when the last time you heared "no i refuse to watch barca vs real Madrid . there are too many foreiners .... its really hurt my eye to see maci and ronaldo they are not spanish!"
no league worth anything without striving to be the best , and having the best play in them .
Esport will never be worth anything unless it strive and push people to be proffesional and have the best playing thier best , cater to medicore is the oposit of sport .
the moments you need for magic to happen is best player getting thier moves that only they can.
if MJ would be prevented to play because he is too good or his skin color , the nba would not be where it is today.
now that said ,
like all sport in countrys where the imported players are better then the local ones there need to be a safty net to allow locals a chance , but that not equal of allowing locals to be medicore!
its usually something like 40% of the team need to be local -> 20 koreans rest "the world" is what come out from those numbers. this will keep competition level high , while having "forieners" a spot to showcase themself.
they still need to beat koreans in order to be champions , they will still need to strive to be more proffesional in order to do that and have high level skill.
but thats exactly what you want ,
and the story of success will be exactly the magic moments that SC2 will need to be BIG.
otherwise it will exactly like the champion of the second league in england three years ago ,
no one will remmeber.
i am not sure when SC2 will be on television ,
but before that happen top players will have to live the dream and be full proffesionals.
no one watch ANYTHING that people do halfheart .
its not easy for sure m but its been done before,
in any sport begining , in korea .
learn from others.
I would choose A. I don't know who ensnare or zenio are but I've seen Avilo at MLG and I'm familiar with Pokebunny and I see them on the Top 200 lists. I don't stay up to watch the GSL and I don't know the players. Sometimes I even go to watch the local AAA baseball team instead of watching the MLB on TV. Edit: I'd also note that it doesn't seem to me the MLG events are any less exciting and fun to attend because there aren't any Korean players there. I guess you really like watching mediocre games. Koreans active in GSL are miles ahead of 99% of the players in MLG. The average 3600 NA Masters player can qualify for MLG, but even a top 3 MLG finisher would have trouble getting into Code A. I guess you really have complete disregard of the quality of the games and the quality of the players. Mediocre is all relative. Compared to my skill level, and probably the majority of a general viewing audience, all of the games are high level. I'm not sure I can make a specific distinction between a game played by Fruitdealer and one played by Destiny. Nor do I necessarily need to, the competition is just as fun to watch presuming the players are relatively well matched. I can easily point out mistakes made by people in MLG games (I only followed a few players I liked). I could easily point out mistakes in Code A games last season. Better players just deliver more exciting games with their multitasking skills, better unit control, better map awareness . . . and a lot less mistakes. Sure but I'm not sure that is going to be true for a major portion of the viewing audience. So you'd rather watch the D-league in basketball because you can point out their mistakes rather than watch the NBA?
No. I didn't make the point that identifying mistakes was part of my interest in watching. Being able to point out what mistakes they make has nothing to do with my interest in watching. I watch the NFL but I don't know that the right guard missed his block and that's why the play went the way it did. My point was that the variance between top tier skill levels would not be distinguishable for me.
But to pezit's point, that is likely different for the current viewing audience given the feedback on TL.
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For me personally when i watch other games i don't regularly follow i want it to be the very best players, i just get more enjoyment knowing they're the best at what they do. I'm not gonna watch a swedish street fighter tournament, i'll watch a global one with the great players.
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On March 17 2011 20:16 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 20:10 cheesemaster wrote:On March 17 2011 13:03 Locustrockz wrote:
I don't think any Koreans should be invited to play I think that they should have to go through the qualifier tournament like the foreigners have to for GSL. The tournament is obviously centered around getting SC2 going in NA not getting Koreans to come play here. That's just my opinion So im assuming you dont think any europeans should be invited either, otherwise your just being racist. Ok, people need to stop using the word "racist". You're making actual racists look good.
ahaahhahaahahahahah.
If korean pros are the best, they should be invited. Imagine a Soccer World Cup without Brazil, ARgentina and Germany.
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On March 18 2011 01:06 Thorantham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 00:54 Kazeyonoma wrote:On March 18 2011 00:48 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:41 chenchen wrote:On March 18 2011 00:31 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:24 chenchen wrote:On March 17 2011 23:53 Thorantham wrote:On March 17 2011 23:46 haflo wrote:
i dont understand ...
What matchup do you believe will have a better viewability :
A) Avilio vs pokebunny or B) Idra Vs Ensnare / Zenio ?
A) root 5th guy vs VTT 5th guy or B) July VS Nada ?
seriously anyone with a striaght face can say he preffer A ? cause banning koreans means exectly that.
take any sport ... how many people watch the second league ?
when the last time you heared "no i refuse to watch barca vs real Madrid . there are too many foreiners .... its really hurt my eye to see maci and ronaldo they are not spanish!"
no league worth anything without striving to be the best , and having the best play in them .
Esport will never be worth anything unless it strive and push people to be proffesional and have the best playing thier best , cater to medicore is the oposit of sport .
the moments you need for magic to happen is best player getting thier moves that only they can.
if MJ would be prevented to play because he is too good or his skin color , the nba would not be where it is today.
now that said ,
like all sport in countrys where the imported players are better then the local ones there need to be a safty net to allow locals a chance , but that not equal of allowing locals to be medicore!
its usually something like 40% of the team need to be local -> 20 koreans rest "the world" is what come out from those numbers. this will keep competition level high , while having "forieners" a spot to showcase themself.
they still need to beat koreans in order to be champions , they will still need to strive to be more proffesional in order to do that and have high level skill.
but thats exactly what you want ,
and the story of success will be exactly the magic moments that SC2 will need to be BIG.
otherwise it will exactly like the champion of the second league in england three years ago ,
no one will remmeber.
i am not sure when SC2 will be on television ,
but before that happen top players will have to live the dream and be full proffesionals.
no one watch ANYTHING that people do halfheart .
its not easy for sure m but its been done before,
in any sport begining , in korea .
learn from others.
I would choose A. I don't know who ensnare or zenio are but I've seen Avilo at MLG and I'm familiar with Pokebunny and I see them on the Top 200 lists. I don't stay up to watch the GSL and I don't know the players. Sometimes I even go to watch the local AAA baseball team instead of watching the MLB on TV. Edit: I'd also note that it doesn't seem to me the MLG events are any less exciting and fun to attend because there aren't any Korean players there. I guess you really like watching mediocre games. Koreans active in GSL are miles ahead of 99% of the players in MLG. The average 3600 NA Masters player can qualify for MLG, but even a top 3 MLG finisher would have trouble getting into Code A. I guess you really have complete disregard of the quality of the games and the quality of the players. Mediocre is all relative. Compared to my skill level, and probably the majority of a general viewing audience, all of the games are high level. I'm not sure I can make a specific distinction between a game played by Fruitdealer and one played by Destiny. Nor do I necessarily need to, the competition is just as fun to watch presuming the players are relatively well matched. I can easily point out mistakes made by people in MLG games (I only followed a few players I liked). I could easily point out mistakes in Code A games last season. Better players just deliver more exciting games with their multitasking skills, better unit control, better map awareness . . . and a lot less mistakes. Sure but I'm not sure that is going to be true for a major portion of the viewing audience. So you'd rather watch the D-league in basketball because you can point out their mistakes rather than watch the NBA? No. I didn't make the point that identifying mistakes was part of my interest in watching. Being able to point out what mistakes they make has nothing to do with my interest in watching. I watch the NFL but I don't know that the right guard missed his block and that's why the play went the way it did. My point was that the variance between top tier skill levels would not be distinguishable for me. But to pezit's point, that is likely different for the current viewing audience given the feedback on TL.
You're completely ignoring the fact that common sense dictates that any viewing audience no matter how casual will hardly be put off that the people playing the game they're watching are Korean.
To assume otherwise is highly suspect.
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On March 18 2011 01:13 Consolidate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 01:06 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:54 Kazeyonoma wrote:On March 18 2011 00:48 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:41 chenchen wrote:On March 18 2011 00:31 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:24 chenchen wrote:On March 17 2011 23:53 Thorantham wrote:On March 17 2011 23:46 haflo wrote:
i dont understand ...
What matchup do you believe will have a better viewability :
A) Avilio vs pokebunny or B) Idra Vs Ensnare / Zenio ?
A) root 5th guy vs VTT 5th guy or B) July VS Nada ?
seriously anyone with a striaght face can say he preffer A ? cause banning koreans means exectly that.
take any sport ... how many people watch the second league ?
when the last time you heared "no i refuse to watch barca vs real Madrid . there are too many foreiners .... its really hurt my eye to see maci and ronaldo they are not spanish!"
no league worth anything without striving to be the best , and having the best play in them .
Esport will never be worth anything unless it strive and push people to be proffesional and have the best playing thier best , cater to medicore is the oposit of sport .
the moments you need for magic to happen is best player getting thier moves that only they can.
if MJ would be prevented to play because he is too good or his skin color , the nba would not be where it is today.
now that said ,
like all sport in countrys where the imported players are better then the local ones there need to be a safty net to allow locals a chance , but that not equal of allowing locals to be medicore!
its usually something like 40% of the team need to be local -> 20 koreans rest "the world" is what come out from those numbers. this will keep competition level high , while having "forieners" a spot to showcase themself.
they still need to beat koreans in order to be champions , they will still need to strive to be more proffesional in order to do that and have high level skill.
but thats exactly what you want ,
and the story of success will be exactly the magic moments that SC2 will need to be BIG.
otherwise it will exactly like the champion of the second league in england three years ago ,
no one will remmeber.
i am not sure when SC2 will be on television ,
but before that happen top players will have to live the dream and be full proffesionals.
no one watch ANYTHING that people do halfheart .
its not easy for sure m but its been done before,
in any sport begining , in korea .
learn from others.
I would choose A. I don't know who ensnare or zenio are but I've seen Avilo at MLG and I'm familiar with Pokebunny and I see them on the Top 200 lists. I don't stay up to watch the GSL and I don't know the players. Sometimes I even go to watch the local AAA baseball team instead of watching the MLB on TV. Edit: I'd also note that it doesn't seem to me the MLG events are any less exciting and fun to attend because there aren't any Korean players there. I guess you really like watching mediocre games. Koreans active in GSL are miles ahead of 99% of the players in MLG. The average 3600 NA Masters player can qualify for MLG, but even a top 3 MLG finisher would have trouble getting into Code A. I guess you really have complete disregard of the quality of the games and the quality of the players. Mediocre is all relative. Compared to my skill level, and probably the majority of a general viewing audience, all of the games are high level. I'm not sure I can make a specific distinction between a game played by Fruitdealer and one played by Destiny. Nor do I necessarily need to, the competition is just as fun to watch presuming the players are relatively well matched. I can easily point out mistakes made by people in MLG games (I only followed a few players I liked). I could easily point out mistakes in Code A games last season. Better players just deliver more exciting games with their multitasking skills, better unit control, better map awareness . . . and a lot less mistakes. Sure but I'm not sure that is going to be true for a major portion of the viewing audience. So you'd rather watch the D-league in basketball because you can point out their mistakes rather than watch the NBA? No. I didn't make the point that identifying mistakes was part of my interest in watching. Being able to point out what mistakes they make has nothing to do with my interest in watching. I watch the NFL but I don't know that the right guard missed his block and that's why the play went the way it did. My point was that the variance between top tier skill levels would not be distinguishable for me. But to pezit's point, that is likely different for the current viewing audience given the feedback on TL. You're completely ignoring the fact that common sense dictates that any viewing audience no matter how casual will hardly be put off that the people playing the game they're watching are Korean. To assume otherwise is highly suspect.
It has nothing to do with where they are from. They could just as well be from Sweden or Brazil. We're arguing a personal preference to be able to see the players live, in person at event such as NASL and MLG. Again, pezit's point that the majority of the TL audience has a preference for skill level and thus that is likely what the NASL team should be considering in terms of community input, not my focus group of 1 preference.
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Saturday afternoon, two streams available:
NCAA Div. 1 Men's Soccer -- #1 Akron vs #2 Louisville
Real Madrid vs Barca
Yes, please link me to the akron vs louisville game if it was something special i missed, otherwise, I'll be watching C.R. and Messi play thank you.
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The very idea of barring Korean players or even limiting them is absurd.
1. Koreans play well, that alone will bring the entertainment that some skeptics use as excuse.
2. Are the organizers of NASL not the same people who would love to make eSports global? Barring a certain demographic is counter intuitive to the growth of eSports.
3. You want to make NASL the same caliber of GSL? LET THE BEST COMPETE.
4. GSL not only does not limit or hinder non Koreans, but they encourage them, by giving them opportunities such as a gaming house! If Top Koreans want to travel down here, then let them. Don't even just let them, HELP them, get them a place to stay, give them a "foreigner house".
5. Finally having a big tourney at home and having Koreans fly here will remove the last excuse we have to be upstaged by them. Our players will have to try that much harder, because now thw away team is jet lagged and tired, and out of their habitat.
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This whole idea of "protecting" the tournament by artificially reducing Koreans and preserving opportunity for those who are not Korean kind of sickens me. It reminds me of a policy I hate with all of my being which is Affirmative Action in the United States.
If you're discriminate based on some "proxy" such as race of nationality, only bad things can result.
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On March 18 2011 01:30 Thorantham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 01:13 Consolidate wrote:On March 18 2011 01:06 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:54 Kazeyonoma wrote:On March 18 2011 00:48 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:41 chenchen wrote:On March 18 2011 00:31 Thorantham wrote:On March 18 2011 00:24 chenchen wrote:On March 17 2011 23:53 Thorantham wrote:On March 17 2011 23:46 haflo wrote:
i dont understand ...
What matchup do you believe will have a better viewability :
A) Avilio vs pokebunny or B) Idra Vs Ensnare / Zenio ?
A) root 5th guy vs VTT 5th guy or B) July VS Nada ?
seriously anyone with a striaght face can say he preffer A ? cause banning koreans means exectly that.
take any sport ... how many people watch the second league ?
when the last time you heared "no i refuse to watch barca vs real Madrid . there are too many foreiners .... its really hurt my eye to see maci and ronaldo they are not spanish!"
no league worth anything without striving to be the best , and having the best play in them .
Esport will never be worth anything unless it strive and push people to be proffesional and have the best playing thier best , cater to medicore is the oposit of sport .
the moments you need for magic to happen is best player getting thier moves that only they can.
if MJ would be prevented to play because he is too good or his skin color , the nba would not be where it is today.
now that said ,
like all sport in countrys where the imported players are better then the local ones there need to be a safty net to allow locals a chance , but that not equal of allowing locals to be medicore!
its usually something like 40% of the team need to be local -> 20 koreans rest "the world" is what come out from those numbers. this will keep competition level high , while having "forieners" a spot to showcase themself.
they still need to beat koreans in order to be champions , they will still need to strive to be more proffesional in order to do that and have high level skill.
but thats exactly what you want ,
and the story of success will be exactly the magic moments that SC2 will need to be BIG.
otherwise it will exactly like the champion of the second league in england three years ago ,
no one will remmeber.
i am not sure when SC2 will be on television ,
but before that happen top players will have to live the dream and be full proffesionals.
no one watch ANYTHING that people do halfheart .
its not easy for sure m but its been done before,
in any sport begining , in korea .
learn from others.
I would choose A. I don't know who ensnare or zenio are but I've seen Avilo at MLG and I'm familiar with Pokebunny and I see them on the Top 200 lists. I don't stay up to watch the GSL and I don't know the players. Sometimes I even go to watch the local AAA baseball team instead of watching the MLB on TV. Edit: I'd also note that it doesn't seem to me the MLG events are any less exciting and fun to attend because there aren't any Korean players there. I guess you really like watching mediocre games. Koreans active in GSL are miles ahead of 99% of the players in MLG. The average 3600 NA Masters player can qualify for MLG, but even a top 3 MLG finisher would have trouble getting into Code A. I guess you really have complete disregard of the quality of the games and the quality of the players. Mediocre is all relative. Compared to my skill level, and probably the majority of a general viewing audience, all of the games are high level. I'm not sure I can make a specific distinction between a game played by Fruitdealer and one played by Destiny. Nor do I necessarily need to, the competition is just as fun to watch presuming the players are relatively well matched. I can easily point out mistakes made by people in MLG games (I only followed a few players I liked). I could easily point out mistakes in Code A games last season. Better players just deliver more exciting games with their multitasking skills, better unit control, better map awareness . . . and a lot less mistakes. Sure but I'm not sure that is going to be true for a major portion of the viewing audience. So you'd rather watch the D-league in basketball because you can point out their mistakes rather than watch the NBA? No. I didn't make the point that identifying mistakes was part of my interest in watching. Being able to point out what mistakes they make has nothing to do with my interest in watching. I watch the NFL but I don't know that the right guard missed his block and that's why the play went the way it did. My point was that the variance between top tier skill levels would not be distinguishable for me. But to pezit's point, that is likely different for the current viewing audience given the feedback on TL. You're completely ignoring the fact that common sense dictates that any viewing audience no matter how casual will hardly be put off that the people playing the game they're watching are Korean. To assume otherwise is highly suspect. It has nothing to do with where they are from. They could just as well be from Sweden or Brazil. We're arguing a personal preference to be able to see the players live, in person at event such as NASL and MLG. Again, pezit's point that the majority of the TL audience has a preference for skill level and thus that is likely what the NASL team should be considering in terms of community input, not my focus group of 1 preference.
My understanding is that it is only during the round of 16 and onwards from which we will be seeing anyone live.
The assumption is that Koreans who make it to the round of 16 will fly over to play live.
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On March 18 2011 00:53 Consolidate wrote:
Just who do you think the viewing audience will be? The 'casual' viewer watches Husky commentaries without giving a thought as to whether or not the players in the VOD are Korean.
People watch starcraft for the GAME ITSELF. It's mind-boggling to hear the assertion that people will stop watching the moment they find out that the people playing the game are...
*gasp*
Korean
yeah I don't get that argument either. I've honestly asked numerous of my friends who don't watch SC2 at all, and the general consensus I'm getting is the casual person would rather see the "best" players, korean or non korean
but anecdotal evidence means nothing
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On March 18 2011 01:39 ItsYoungLee wrote:
This whole idea of "protecting" the tournament by artificially reducing Koreans and preserving opportunity for those who are not Korean kind of sickens me.
I think most people would agree on this.
Yet very few seem to be arguing the specific reasons NASL has given for limiting (however much) korean presence in the tournament. It is simply a fact that an online tournament that is hosted in the US will have latency problems for asian players.
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On March 18 2011 01:40 chonkyfire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 00:53 Consolidate wrote:
Just who do you think the viewing audience will be? The 'casual' viewer watches Husky commentaries without giving a thought as to whether or not the players in the VOD are Korean.
People watch starcraft for the GAME ITSELF. It's mind-boggling to hear the assertion that people will stop watching the moment they find out that the people playing the game are...
*gasp*
Korean
yeah I don't get that argument either. I've honestly asked numerous of my friends who don't watch SC2 at all, and the general consensus I'm getting is the casual person would rather see the "best" players, korean or non korean but anecdotal evidence means nothing
Not to mention it's actually something impressive for those who don't know the scene. If you have no idea how things work, and you heard some of the players come from Korea all the way to the US to play in this thing, it definatelly seems interesting. It makes the event look bigger, if I were a sponsor, I would definatelly choose a world championship over a local one. I don't know how someone would be more interested in their own country than other coutries.
It also opens up oportunities to explain how starcraft and gaming in general works in Korea, and that's the most unique thing we have right now compared to other communities, and what people ussually are most impressed and interested when they here about starcraft.
On March 18 2011 01:53 flodeskum wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 01:39 ItsYoungLee wrote:
This whole idea of "protecting" the tournament by artificially reducing Koreans and preserving opportunity for those who are not Korean kind of sickens me. I think most people would agree on this. Yet very few seem to be arguing the specific reasons NASL has given for limiting (however much) korean presence in the tournament. It is simply a fact that an online tournament that is hosted in the US will have latency problems for asian players.
Because this thread started because some people didn't want koreans in the league because they though they aren't interesting. It's basically the quote on the first post. I haven't seen this oficial response from NASL, but if they said that, it's something completelly diferent than what has been discussed in this thread since even before it started.
And about the latency, there is one clear logical way to work on it, wait for TSL, it's close, and we will see if it works.
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People who doesn't agree with having Koreans here, do you have an interest in the average to mediocre players who are applying ? Friends, played vs them a time (claim 2 fame), or something similar ? If not I want NASL to be the best players. If it means 30 koreans and 20 foreigners, then so be it. It should be a grand tournament.
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On March 18 2011 02:19 Sqq wrote:
People who doesn't agree with having Koreans here, do you have an interest in the average to mediocre players who are applying ? Friends, played vs them a time (claim 2 fame), or something similar ? If not I want NASL to be the best players. If it means 30 koreans and 20 foreigners, then so be it. It should be a grand tournament.
Do you realize that "30 koreans and 20 foreigners" could easily turn into 48 koreans and 2 foreigners if the assumptions about Korean dominance turn out to be true and you've removed limitations on how many koreans can participate?
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On March 18 2011 01:57 SKC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 18 2011 01:53 flodeskum wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 01:39 ItsYoungLee wrote:
This whole idea of "protecting" the tournament by artificially reducing Koreans and preserving opportunity for those who are not Korean kind of sickens me. I think most people would agree on this. Yet very few seem to be arguing the specific reasons NASL has given for limiting (however much) korean presence in the tournament. It is simply a fact that an online tournament that is hosted in the US will have latency problems for asian players. Because this thread started because some people didn't want koreans in the league because they though they aren't interesting. It's basically the quote on the first post. I haven't seen this oficial response from NASL, but if they said that, it's something completelly diferent than what has been discussed in this thread since even before it started. And about the latency, there is one clear logical way to work on it, wait for TSL, it's close, and we will see if it works.
Well the TSL will be slightly different as the higher seeded player will have the 'homeground advantage' in terms of latency but the NASL will only be played on the US server, so the koreans would always be at a disadvantage. But, yeah, the TSL should give us a good idea on how cross region play could potentially affect the NASL.
I can imagine a zvz or a pvp could be really hard for someone with a slight delay on every command since a mild fart can lose you games in those matchups.
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EPT
