EPTI'm all for inviting a few top Koreans, but they need to realize that some commitment is expected of them.
NASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 72
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sevia
United States954 Posts
I'm all for inviting a few top Koreans, but they need to realize that some commitment is expected of them. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:13 Kazang wrote: Never going to happen.* The reason for the apparent low latency in BW was because of where the servers were located, or not in the case of direct peer to peer games. You can't specifically choose what server, know where it is or dictate how you play SC2 so you can never get the lowest possible latency. Then of course there is a physical limitation in how fast information can travel over the pacific and back again. The BW engine is also so terrible that it actually makes high latency less noticeable, it's simplicity Vs stability in netcode. SC2 has much more robust netcode that tries to insure equality and a consistent connection, but increases latency due to the number of loopbacks to the server. SC2 is extremely unlikely to have desync errors and problems of that type, actions not registering etc, but that stability comes at the cost of more noticeable lag when the latency does increase. *if it ever does it will be at the same time they implement LAN play. This sucks because SC2 seems to be worse in every way compared to SC1. For example, if I'm playing on KR server, and if my opponent and I give a command simultaneously, his command happens first. In this way, our games are out of sync. We do things at different times depending on our latency to the server. This isn't the case with SC1. Commands given simultaneously in the real world happen simultaneously in the game. Also in SC2, it's possible for the game to momentarily freeze and then skip ahead for one player, but for the other player to have a smooth experience the whole time. It's just really disappointing because SC:BW was designed mainly for dial-up modems. As connections improved, Blizzard did nothing, but fans were able to make adjustments to take advantage of our internet connections. And then SC2 comes out and I'm thinking it'll be nice to not have to use third party programs anymore. But then they totally sacrificed the quality of long distance connections, which kinda blew my mind with how much PR they had about building SC2 for esports. NA to NA and EU to EU and KR to KR all provide excellent online experiences but they must have known that SC2 as an esport would require good connections cross continent =[[[ | ||
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Sharkyloft
Colombia69 Posts
"I dont think inviting them is in accordance with our long term goals" --> Coward trying to hide it "Bring it on Korean player! I'll play you!" --> Hero Lets invite Best Korean Players... and beat them. What can possibly be better for the scene? And if they win... we practice and beat them next year. Lets put the bar high. Dont be cowards. | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:43 sevia wrote: I think allowing the tournament to be Korean-heavy is a bad idea. It would create a lot of complications should NASL, or other western leagues, choose to transition into a live setting similar to GSL's setup. It may take a while to get to that point, but I see it as inevitable should western eSports take off. I'm all for inviting a few top Koreans, but they need to realize that some commitment is expected of them. No commitment is expected of anybody else in a tournament, except that they finish that tournament, right? Nobody is EXPECTED to show up to the next season just because they received seeding. Worst case scenario there's a few rounds of tiebreakers while we sort shit out. | ||
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GrackGyver
61 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote: This sucks because SC2 seems to be worse in every way compared to SC1. For example, if I'm playing on KR server, and if my opponent and I give a command simultaneously, his command happens first. In this way, our games are out of sync. We do things at different times depending on our latency to the server. This isn't the case with SC1. Commands given simultaneously in the real world happen simultaneously in the game. Also in SC2, it's possible for the game to momentarily freeze and then skip ahead for one player, but for the other player to have a smooth experience the whole time. It's just really disappointing because SC:BW was designed mainly for dial-up modems. As connections improved, Blizzard did nothing, but fans were able to make adjustments to take advantage of our internet connections. And then SC2 comes out and I'm thinking it'll be nice to not have to use third party programs anymore. But then they totally sacrificed the quality of long distance connections, which kinda blew my mind with how much PR they had about building SC2 for esports. NA to NA and EU to EU and KR to KR all provide excellent online experiences but they must have known that SC2 as an esport would require good connections cross continent =[[[ I think we've figured out by now that Blizzard is more concerned with "protecting" their IP (however bad the consequences in the long run) than providing a really solid platform for ESports. Unfortunately, back when it mattered, pretty much all the community figures were busy telling the unruly mob to quiet down because no amount of complaining would get anything done. So now that it doesn't really matter anymore because the game has been shipped and redoing whole portions of the engine would be a huge pain and is extremely unlikely, we're going to have Tyler and other community figures eventually deciding that after all it's kinda sad and the limitations of the engine are in fact hurting Sc2 as an ESport. Little late to the party there. | ||
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HowSoOnIsNow
Canada480 Posts
It`s not because you decide to play 14 hours a day of Sc that you`ll become a pro, able to compete with the best of them. | ||
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nart
97 Posts
This just shows you that when you're a known name within the SC community, you need to speak carefully. That's why sometimes being reserve like the Koreans would be helpful and negative comments toward pokebunny's NASL thought wouldn't have existed. | ||
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alexhard
Sweden317 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote: NA to NA and EU to EU and KR to KR all provide excellent online experiences Isn't there a forced latency of 125ms or something? In any case, microing stuff in single player vs multiplayer feels extremely different. In w3/sc at least you could use 3rd party tools to lower the forced latency. No such luck now... | ||
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DizzyDrone
Netherlands629 Posts
North American tournament? Invite people based on their performance in North American tournaments and the North American ladder. Reserve a few spots for European, Korean and SEA players based on performance in their own region (the same way GSL does). Western tournament? Invite people based on their performance in both North American and European tournaments. Reserve a few spots for Korean and SEA players based on performance in Western tournaments (for example Ace, Moon, Squirtle and Moonglade for doing well in IEM). International tournament? invite players based on their overall performance. Add in limits to make sure every region is represented equally. There are a ton of different ways you could handle the invites. As long as the NASL communicates clearly what method they used to decide who gets invited any method that starts the league off with 50 good players is fine. | ||
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oGm`REM
United States870 Posts
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Pudge_172
United States1378 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:21 jmbthirteen wrote: I'm just gonna say that is a terrible attitude. Why don't you want to be the best of the best? The attitude like that won't grow eSports in the West. Why do you think more people watch the Premier League than MLS. Because its the best players. It's not going to be very interesting locally without involving the best players in the world. It's going to be just like BW then. If you already have a Premier League in soccer/futbol, why would you want another league with those same exact players. | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote: This sucks because SC2 seems to be worse in every way compared to SC1. For example, if I'm playing on KR server, and if my opponent and I give a command simultaneously, his command happens first. In this way, our games are out of sync. We do things at different times depending on our latency to the server. This isn't the case with SC1. Commands given simultaneously in the real world happen simultaneously in the game. Also in SC2, it's possible for the game to momentarily freeze and then skip ahead for one player, but for the other player to have a smooth experience the whole time. It's just really disappointing because SC:BW was designed mainly for dial-up modems. As connections improved, Blizzard did nothing, but fans were able to make adjustments to take advantage of our internet connections. And then SC2 comes out and I'm thinking it'll be nice to not have to use third party programs anymore. But then they totally sacrificed the quality of long distance connections, which kinda blew my mind with how much PR they had about building SC2 for esports. NA to NA and EU to EU and KR to KR all provide excellent online experiences but they must have known that SC2 as an esport would require good connections cross continent =[[[ Especially when companies like Valve and S2games and many others are actually at the state of the art, while blizzard/activision goes backwards. It can't work out well longterm. DOTA 2 - Dedicated server hosting, optimized for worldwide play, Spectator friendly with "DELAYED" observer mode for every single game available to unlimited spectators. Meaning if a tournament happens, I can go into Dota 2 browser, and observe the game with an inbuilt delay. etc. Totally esports friendly. No maphacking due to dedicated servers only sending you information you can view. Coaching modes, etc. HON - Dedicated server hosting in many locations allowing lowest possible pings. No maphacking due to too only sending information you can view. Blizzard SC2 - No dedicated server hosting, instead it makes all traffic go through bnet 2.0, creating the worst possible latency and performance in the name of security. Horrible chat channels etc. They focused exclusively on stopping pirating with every decision and failed to provide the basic of basics like chat channels on release. | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:58 oGm`REM wrote: I feel if Koreans (or anyone outside the North America) were allowed to play in the NASL.. I feel they should change their name considering NASL = North America StarCraft League. Just saying.. A name is something that you spew out of your face to make someone else know what the verbs in your sentence correlate to. The National Hockey League has teams in two nations, and people from nations that are thousands of miles away from both nations in which the teams are. They haven't changed their name. NASL = Starleague that takes place in NA, not NA people starleague. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:58 oGm`REM wrote: It's just a name. Don't get too hung up on it.I feel if Koreans (or anyone outside the North America) were allowed to play in the NASL.. I feel they should change their name considering NASL = North America StarCraft League. Just saying.. The finals are in North America, the sponsors are North American, the casters are North American, there will be North American players. It's fine to call it the North American Star League. | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:53 nart wrote: poor pokebunny has to go around the thread to explain to people that he's not expecting an NASL spot for himself, because people are flaming his comment. This just shows you that when you're a known name within the SC community, you need to speak carefully. That's why sometimes being reserve like the Koreans would be helpful and negative comments toward pokebunny's NASL thought wouldn't have existed. The comments against Pokebunny have to do with how stupid his ideas are, not because of who he is as a person. But if you want to live in a world of ignorance go for it and just assume conflicting opinions are just personal attacks, go for it. My main problem with his ideas are that he wants to make NASL a show, not a true competition. He'd rather have a reality show than a test of skill. I disagree with that notion. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On March 17 2011 05:02 Pudge_172 wrote: If you already have a Premier League in soccer/futbol, why would you want another league with those same exact players. If 50 of the current GSL Code A and Code S players are making up the NASL player pool, I agree with you. Until then, be quiet and enjoy the differences. | ||
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Pudge_172
United States1378 Posts
On March 17 2011 05:07 Bobster wrote: If 50 of the current GSL Code A and Code S players end up in the NASL, I agree with you. Until then, enjoy the differences. Why would you even want more than half of the same players in this league? The way this league is structured(13 weeks), it should be heavily NA/EU. Just saw your edit..... The only time I'm going to be quiet is when I'm banned...... | ||
JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On March 17 2011 05:09 Pudge_172 wrote: The way this league is structured(13 weeks), it should be heavily NA/EU. Just saw your edit..... The only time I'm going to be quiet is when I'm banned...... Indeed, a 13 week long league does lean more towards NA/EU. It's like how coke tastes darker than square. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On March 17 2011 05:09 Pudge_172 wrote: Why would you even want more than half of the same players in this league? The way this league is structured(13 weeks), it should be heavily NA/EU. Just saw your edit..... The only time I'm going to be quiet is when I'm banned...... Wait, now it's only more than half? It was the exact same players a minute ago. :p And seriously, we had 8 Korean applicants so far, with (hopefully) a couple more coming in later tonight. Don't worry about NASL inviting 25+ Koreans when there's 10+ Korean appplications along the 100+ applicants from all over the world. edit: yeah, I don't get the "the way this league is structured" comment either. What does the length of the league has to do with anything. >_> | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On March 17 2011 05:09 Pudge_172 wrote: Why would you even want more than half of the same players in this league? The way this league is structured(13 weeks), it should be heavily NA/EU. Just saw your edit..... The only time I'm going to be quiet is when I'm banned...... Umm because those players provide the best games. Its pretty obvious that if the MLS could get the same players as the Premier league they would and they would be more popular because of it. The only thing is that its unrealistic in soccer to do so. In SC2 its not. I want to see NA/EU players become the best in the world. Thats not going to happen without Korean competition. | ||
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