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On March 17 2011 01:56 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 01:51 Sqq wrote:
Why would you exclude Koreans ? If any other country besides USA and Canada plays, then it should be fair to let the Koreans play also. Some people. Well, there's also the issue of having a korean playing against a european in the online qualifiers; there's going to be ALOT of lag. Alot. The more koreans you have, the larger the possibility of that happening is. It sucks, but that's how it's run, and a cap does have some merit when it comes to logistical headaches such as this.
that will indeed suck, but that has been by far the least brought up point in favor of excluding/limiting koreans...
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On March 17 2011 01:57 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 01:56 dtz wrote:On March 17 2011 01:44 dkim wrote:
pokebunny seems to somehow link no koreans in nasl to him taking down #1 prize lol.
if you are a true competitor you would want to be competing with the best, that's all. stop putting words in his mouth. i disagree with almost all of his views but he has made it obvious that he has his stance because he prefers watching people he can relate to ( plays against in ladder) Ever heard of clandestine motivations?
You can disagree with Pokebunnys opinion, but this is stupid.
It is extremely unlikely he will be in this league, even if there were no Koreans. He even said this himself. Therefore this "you want the prize all for your own!" doesnt make sense.
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On March 17 2011 01:57 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 01:56 dtz wrote:On March 17 2011 01:44 dkim wrote:
pokebunny seems to somehow link no koreans in nasl to him taking down #1 prize lol.
if you are a true competitor you would want to be competing with the best, that's all. stop putting words in his mouth. i disagree with almost all of his views but he has made it obvious that he has his stance because he prefers watching people he can relate to ( plays against in ladder) Ever heard of clandestine motivations?
There is just no way pokebunny is gonna be in with or without the Koreans to be honest. See the other thread ( NASL who is your 50 )
Anyway a lot of people has accused him of that and he kept denying it. Whether he speaks the truth is not important because it will become a "he said you said " thing and it does not contribute anything to the discussion.
And i think Pokebunny was being childish when he slammed Startale's application which he deemed as "money grabbing" and "with as little effort as possible". But if he as a spectator prefers to see North Americans only then its his prerogative
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On March 17 2011 01:55 underdawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 01:51 goiflin wrote:On March 17 2011 01:42 underdawg wrote:On March 17 2011 01:36 Pokebunny wrote:On March 17 2011 01:34 underdawg wrote:On March 17 2011 01:26 Pokebunny wrote:
It had nothing to do with whether they want koreans competing against them. Tyler specifically said the other matches were more interesting to him and Strelok said he'd rather not have them as a spectator. goddamn you're a retard So it's retarded to believe what people say? I think Tyler and Strelok are smart enough to express their own thoughts accurately. yes, in this situation You make no sense at all. Those are quotes from those players; they're intrested in seeing foreign players against foreign players. What poke is trying to say is, is that it will be more intresting to the average spectator, to see a foreigner versus foreigner match than a korean versus foreigner, or korean versus korean match. If that's their opinion, then I'm down with it, but they're not retarded for thinking that. 1. tyler is talking about his teammates, his personal buddies. they are not pokebunny's friends. 2. i don't think competitors can take off their competitor hat and put on their spectator hat and talk without bias in these sorts of situations. it has nothing to do with how smart they are. 3. tyler doesn't count jinro as korean and thus i don't think he really thought about what he said. 4. i said poke is retarded, not tyler or strelok, get it straight.
So it's retarded to believe what people say?
yes
Oh, and I find it funny that you stated that Tyler and Strelok can't actually think about how good a match can be to watch without bias. So, what kind of bias are you accusing them of, exactly? Who better to judge what an entertaining game of starcraft would look like than the ones who slog through thousands of boring practice matches a month?
Tyler was talking about matches not involving koreans. Of course he's going to specifically mention his teammates matches, he's obviously going to be anticipating those the most, since they're his friends, but he did say that he's anticipating non-korean matches the most.
Pokebunny agrees with them. He thinks that it would be more fun to watch foreigner vs foreigner matches. You called him a retard for having this perspective. Strelok and Tyler share this perspective. Unless I'm missing something here, yeah, you did, by proxy, call them retarded.
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On March 17 2011 01:11 Pokebunny wrote:
Oh, and anyone notice Tyler and Strelok's answers on the TSL interviews? :D
Tyler: I'm mostly interested in the games not involving Koreans. Matches like Ret vs Naniwa, Jinro vs Morrow, and Huk vs Hasuobs, are all matches that could easily be the semifinals or finals of a major tournament. I'm of course cheering for my teammates and think they will win all their matches. I'm also looking forward to some really refined strategies and plans since players have a lot of time to prepare for a specific player, matchup and map set.
Strelok: And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net.
It's not the same tournament, but it echoes my thoughts.
Yes, but then again, I doubt Koreans would not care about the NASL when it's that much money on the line.
You can't really compare your opinion to Tyler's, seeing how different it is. Tyler's games of interest all involve his teammates, it's fairly straightforward answer.
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On March 17 2011 01:18 underdawg wrote:
also not counting jinro as "korean" because he is white is pretty fucked up
i also don't think it's possible for players to put on their unbiased "spectator" hat.
Eh? Jinro is Swedish.
Colour of his skin has nothing to do with it.
If he was born in Sweden I would imagine has a Swedish passport and that makes him Swedish not Korean.
How is that fucked up?
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Personally I find Foreigner vs. Korean to be way more intriguing than Korean vs. Korean or Foreigner vs. Foreigner.
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On March 17 2011 02:01 underdawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 01:56 goiflin wrote:On March 17 2011 01:51 Sqq wrote:
Why would you exclude Koreans ? If any other country besides USA and Canada plays, then it should be fair to let the Koreans play also. Some people. Well, there's also the issue of having a korean playing against a european in the online qualifiers; there's going to be ALOT of lag. Alot. The more koreans you have, the larger the possibility of that happening is. It sucks, but that's how it's run, and a cap does have some merit when it comes to logistical headaches such as this. that will indeed suck, but that has been by far the least brought up point in favor of excluding/limiting koreans...
Actually, incontrol brought it up in an interview, I don't have the time to look it up right now, but you should have no issues finding it, it was pretty recent.
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On March 17 2011 02:07 Kazang wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 01:18 underdawg wrote:
also not counting jinro as "korean" because he is white is pretty fucked up
i also don't think it's possible for players to put on their unbiased "spectator" hat. Eh? Jinro is Swedish. Colour of his skin has nothing to do with it. If he was born in Sweden I would imagine has a Swedish passport and that makes him Swedish not Korean. How is that fucked up?
because he trains in korea, plays in GSL, etc. for SC2 purposes, he is korean. why should where someone was born be relevant at all for SC purposes? sounds like a bunch of people want to exclude the korean players, except jinro, huk, etc. and to me that is the most indefensible position.
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On March 17 2011 02:07 Kazang wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 01:18 underdawg wrote:
also not counting jinro as "korean" because he is white is pretty fucked up
i also don't think it's possible for players to put on their unbiased "spectator" hat. Eh? Jinro is Swedish. Colour of his skin has nothing to do with it. If he was born in Sweden I would imagine has a Swedish passport and that makes him Swedish not Korean. How is that fucked up?
He meant that jinro is a player who practices in korea. There's no technical difference, when it comes to SC2, between a foreigner training in korea and a korean.
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On March 17 2011 02:08 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 02:01 underdawg wrote:On March 17 2011 01:56 goiflin wrote:On March 17 2011 01:51 Sqq wrote:
Why would you exclude Koreans ? If any other country besides USA and Canada plays, then it should be fair to let the Koreans play also. Some people. Well, there's also the issue of having a korean playing against a european in the online qualifiers; there's going to be ALOT of lag. Alot. The more koreans you have, the larger the possibility of that happening is. It sucks, but that's how it's run, and a cap does have some merit when it comes to logistical headaches such as this. that will indeed suck, but that has been by far the least brought up point in favor of excluding/limiting koreans... Actually, incontrol brought it up in an interview, I don't have the time to look it up right now, but you should have no issues finding it, it was pretty recent.
in this thread i mean.
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1 from each big korean team. IM = MVP or nestea
ZeNex = Kyrix
etc.
Would allow for a diverse number of koreans; without being way too many.
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United States10654 Posts
1. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my viewpoint is best. I'm just defending it as a valid opinion.
2. Even if I knew 100% I would never be in the league, I'd still rather see few/no koreans (with the few being people like Cella). I'm not gonna get in as is.
I don't see how you can say my logic is backwards. I'm saying I want to watch an entertaining league, if the tournament is primarily korean, I won't watch much. I'm not saying this should be the majority opinion, just trying to defend my opinion as reasonable.
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On March 17 2011 02:07 nvs. wrote:
Personally I find Foreigner vs. Korean to be way more intriguing than Korean vs. Korean or Foreigner vs. Foreigner.
So did the previous Liquid poll by a rather large margin (46% for NaDa vs TLO).
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On March 17 2011 02:10 Pokebunny wrote:
1. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my viewpoint is best. I'm just defending it as a valid opinion.
2. Even if I knew 100% I would never be in the league, I'd still rather see few/no koreans (with the few being people like Cella). I'm not gonna get in as is.
I don't see how you can say my logic is backwards. I'm saying I want to watch an entertaining league, if the tournament is primarily korean, I won't watch much. I'm not saying this should be the majority opinion, just trying to defend my opinion as reasonable.
if you are just saying you want to see players you are already familiar with, then that's totally understandable.
if you'd rather see random unknown NA player than random unknown KOR player though, then that's weird. why is that? why are units controlled by white hands more entertaining than the same units controlled by yellow hands?
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United States10654 Posts
On March 17 2011 02:14 underdawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 02:10 Pokebunny wrote:
1. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my viewpoint is best. I'm just defending it as a valid opinion.
2. Even if I knew 100% I would never be in the league, I'd still rather see few/no koreans (with the few being people like Cella). I'm not gonna get in as is.
I don't see how you can say my logic is backwards. I'm saying I want to watch an entertaining league, if the tournament is primarily korean, I won't watch much. I'm not saying this should be the majority opinion, just trying to defend my opinion as reasonable. if you are just saying you want to see players you are already familiar with, then that's totally understandable. if you'd rather see random unknown NA player than random unknown KOR player though, then that's weird. why is that? why are units controlled by white hands more entertaining than the same units controlled by yellow hands?
You speak as if I don't know the majority of unknown NA players, if not all NA players that made applications. I'm pretty sure I do.
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On March 17 2011 02:19 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 02:14 underdawg wrote:On March 17 2011 02:10 Pokebunny wrote:
1. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my viewpoint is best. I'm just defending it as a valid opinion.
2. Even if I knew 100% I would never be in the league, I'd still rather see few/no koreans (with the few being people like Cella). I'm not gonna get in as is.
I don't see how you can say my logic is backwards. I'm saying I want to watch an entertaining league, if the tournament is primarily korean, I won't watch much. I'm not saying this should be the majority opinion, just trying to defend my opinion as reasonable. if you are just saying you want to see players you are already familiar with, then that's totally understandable. if you'd rather see random unknown NA player than random unknown KOR player though, then that's weird. why is that? why are units controlled by white hands more entertaining than the same units controlled by yellow hands? You speak as if I don't know the majority of unknown NA players, if not all NA players that made applications. I'm pretty sure I do.
well..what if?
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On March 17 2011 02:19 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 02:14 underdawg wrote:On March 17 2011 02:10 Pokebunny wrote:
1. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my viewpoint is best. I'm just defending it as a valid opinion.
2. Even if I knew 100% I would never be in the league, I'd still rather see few/no koreans (with the few being people like Cella). I'm not gonna get in as is.
I don't see how you can say my logic is backwards. I'm saying I want to watch an entertaining league, if the tournament is primarily korean, I won't watch much. I'm not saying this should be the majority opinion, just trying to defend my opinion as reasonable. if you are just saying you want to see players you are already familiar with, then that's totally understandable. if you'd rather see random unknown NA player than random unknown KOR player though, then that's weird. why is that? why are units controlled by white hands more entertaining than the same units controlled by yellow hands? You speak as if I don't know the majority of unknown NA players, if not all NA players that made applications. I'm pretty sure I do.
Still, advocating the inclusion of unknown players goes directly against the stated mission of the NASL.
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On March 17 2011 02:19 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 02:14 underdawg wrote:On March 17 2011 02:10 Pokebunny wrote:
1. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my viewpoint is best. I'm just defending it as a valid opinion.
2. Even if I knew 100% I would never be in the league, I'd still rather see few/no koreans (with the few being people like Cella). I'm not gonna get in as is.
I don't see how you can say my logic is backwards. I'm saying I want to watch an entertaining league, if the tournament is primarily korean, I won't watch much. I'm not saying this should be the majority opinion, just trying to defend my opinion as reasonable. if you are just saying you want to see players you are already familiar with, then that's totally understandable. if you'd rather see random unknown NA player than random unknown KOR player though, then that's weird. why is that? why are units controlled by white hands more entertaining than the same units controlled by yellow hands? You speak as if I don't know the majority of unknown NA players, if not all NA players that made applications. I'm pretty sure I do.
It seems to me you find the NASL more interesting with players you know (NA players), which is completely legitimate seeing how you are competing in the NA scene.
Although, the vast majority of fans who will be watching the NASL might not know the players on a personal level, which is why, to us (watching the GSL), it is more interesting seeing a clash of both our favorite NA/EU players and Korean players. It is a shame, that you, as a spectator, stopped watching GSL.
Anyhow, I think Rekrul/Jinro summed it up pretty well.
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United States10654 Posts
On March 17 2011 02:22 underdawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 02:19 Pokebunny wrote:On March 17 2011 02:14 underdawg wrote:On March 17 2011 02:10 Pokebunny wrote:
1. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my viewpoint is best. I'm just defending it as a valid opinion.
2. Even if I knew 100% I would never be in the league, I'd still rather see few/no koreans (with the few being people like Cella). I'm not gonna get in as is.
I don't see how you can say my logic is backwards. I'm saying I want to watch an entertaining league, if the tournament is primarily korean, I won't watch much. I'm not saying this should be the majority opinion, just trying to defend my opinion as reasonable. if you are just saying you want to see players you are already familiar with, then that's totally understandable. if you'd rather see random unknown NA player than random unknown KOR player though, then that's weird. why is that? why are units controlled by white hands more entertaining than the same units controlled by yellow hands? You speak as if I don't know the majority of unknown NA players, if not all NA players that made applications. I'm pretty sure I do. well..what if?
- more similar to myself, easier to connect to as a fan/competitor
- (probably) more interesting interviews, more interesting story to follow
- he would compete in other na events rather than a korean who would play nasl + other korean tournaments, again allowing me to become familiar with a player part of my scene
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EPT
