NASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 49

On March 16 2011 12:11 Icekommander wrote:
Why the top-tier Koreans shouldn't be in the NASL


The GSL is the absolute pinnacle of SCII skill. Players such as MVP, MC and Nestea are Monsters at the game, and can destroy most of their opposition with ease. This season was something of a hiccup, but I'd bet on MC being the first player to take two GSL seasons.

So doesn't this make them top choices for the NASL? That depends on what you want from the NASL. Did we want another GSl esque "Let the Most Skillfull take home the money"? Or did we want the NASL to be the "Pinnacle of Foreign play?"

At the moment they are quite different. Quite a few foreigners got blocked from the GSL at various points. Players such as InControL and Kiwikaki got blocked from Season 3, and this season Ret, Moonglade and Haypro couldn't make it past ro32 Code A. There are three foreign players who are noticeable in the Korean scene (Idra, Jinro, HuK), of the 15-20 who have tried at one point or another.

It is also important to note IEM. Moon, Ace and Squirtle are hardly the pinnacle of Korean play. All three of them just got demoted to Code B, yet they wiped out the best the rest of the world could offer. TSL 3 will probably repeat this process.

So we can safely assume that the Koreans will rampage through the NASL like nobody's business. I mean, who really thinks that if we have MKP, MC, Nestea, and MVP in NASL, that more than one foreigner can make top 4? It would be domination. Maybe Tyler or White-Ra gets lucky and takes one out, but we aren't likely to see more than one or two.

So let's say that our top four are MVP, MC, Tyler Nestea (1st/2nd/3rd/4th). we don't have the NASL prize distribution yet, but according to liquipedia the GSL pays 140,000,000 of 200,000,000 Won to 1st/2nd/4th, about 70%. Of the 100,000$ that various foreign sources pump into the NASL, 70% of that money just gets pumped right back to Korea, Korean players, Korean Teams.

And this will hurt the Foreign scene. Money is important, it is what will ultimately allow the foreign scene to stay competitive with Korea, or fall behind. If this 70,000$ goes to players and teams like qxc, Select, Tyler, and Liquid/root/mouz, it will allow players to quit jobs (and therefor play full-time SCII), and teams to get Korean esque practising set-ups. But if that money goes straight back to Korea, and Korean teams, then the foreigners can't get the support they need to stay relevant.






So the NASL isn't just about skill now. It's about skill later. If we allow the top tier Koreans access now, they'll stomp North America, and take all the money and send it back to Korea. And if we do that, then foreign players can't get the support they need to play as the Koreans do, allowing Korea to just widen the skill-gap more and more.

On March 16 2011 12:07 FXOpen wrote:
Any tournmanet discriminating on race/colour/creed/nationality, should take a long hard look at itself. Turn the tables around, lets say the US had GSL and NASL was in Korea.. How would you feel if someone said "cos you're american, you're not allowed to play sorry"...

To be honest, its kinda racist.

On March 16 2011 12:14 Zeke50100 wrote:
If it really was all about where the money went, and the economy of the e-sports community, you would just give the teams $100,000, instead of barring Koreans from participating in a legitimate fashion so you can ensure that "NA gets the money".

On March 16 2011 12:15 raf3776 wrote:

100% agree. segregation in sports were never helpful to the sports scene. A "cap" or restriction of "koreans" becasue theyre the best is hurtful to the scene. Its like baseball restricting minorities from playing in the MLB. Wasnt a good idea then and I dont see how it would be a good idea now. People saying "theyre the best" can be excluded from the argument if you include any of the foreign code S players. Jinro can compete with the best in GSL should we not let him participate as well? Or do we include him because he isnt korean.

On March 16 2011 12:21 Kazang wrote:


But to ask players to be somewhere in NA to play in NASL is an unreasonable thing to ask?

On March 16 2011 12:02 allecto wrote:
I believe Ichiro Suzuki doesn't speak any English and has boring interviews, but yet is the sole reason that the Seattle Mariners stay profitable every year.

On March 16 2011 12:22 Icekommander wrote:


Ok, I didn't think I'd have to talk about the other part of the economy, but I guess I do. Let me ask you this, where is the money for NASL season 4 going to come from?


You can just pay-out 400,000 dollars. Yay us! Teams can all set up team houses. Except then that 400,000$ would be gone, and the teams will disappear if some new event doesn't come along to keep supplying money.

But if you make it a tournament, the givers can get money back. Advertising and sponsorship and all that. This will result in a greater amount of money in the econom , and allow NASL to go to seasons 4/5/6 ect.

As well as you know, putting on a tournament and giving us something to watch and all that. Why just have your cake, if you can eat it too?

On March 16 2011 12:16 Rokusha wrote:
One issue that I have not seen brought up yet is banning of the Korean- foreigners. We can all agree it's not Korean genetics but their effort and the esports structure in place in Korea that makes them successful. If we ban Koreans from NASL, we have to ban Jinro, Huk, Ret, Haypro, and Idra who are all byproducts of Korean training. A argument can be that Ret and Haypro have not done so well in the GSL so they are not as good as the Koreans and can compete in NASL. If that is the case people like Bomber, and other Code B players should be able to participate too...

This is why it is silly to ban Koreans in my opinion.

On March 16 2011 12:23 Serpico wrote:



No he isnt....if the Mariners are profitable it's because of the ownership. Attendance is mediocre at best.

On March 16 2011 12:22 Icekommander wrote:


Ok, I didn't think I'd have to talk about the other part of the economy, but I guess I do. Let me ask you this, where is the money for NASL season 4 going to come from?


You can just pay-out 400,000 dollars. Yay us! Teams can all set up team houses. Except then that 400,000$ would be gone, and the teams will disappear if some new event doesn't come along to keep supplying money.

But if you make it a tournament, the givers can get money back. Advertising and sponsorship and all that. This will result in a greater amount of money in the econom , and allow NASL to go to seasons 4/5/6 ect.

As well as you know, putting on a tournament and giving us something to watch and all that. Why just have your cake, if you can eat it too?

On March 16 2011 12:11 Icekommander wrote:
Why the top-tier Koreans shouldn't be in the NASL


The GSL is the absolute pinnacle of SCII skill. Players such as MVP, MC and Nestea are Monsters at the game, and can destroy most of their opposition with ease. This season was something of a hiccup, but I'd bet on MC being the first player to take two GSL seasons.

So doesn't this make them top choices for the NASL? That depends on what you want from the NASL. Did we want another GSl esque "Let the Most Skillfull take home the money"? Or did we want the NASL to be the "Pinnacle of Foreign play?"

At the moment they are quite different. Quite a few foreigners got blocked from the GSL at various points. Players such as InControL and Kiwikaki got blocked from Season 3, and this season Ret, Moonglade and Haypro couldn't make it past ro32 Code A. There are three foreign players who are noticeable in the Korean scene (Idra, Jinro, HuK), of the 15-20 who have tried at one point or another.

It is also important to note IEM. Moon, Ace and Squirtle are hardly the pinnacle of Korean play. All three of them just got demoted to Code B, yet they wiped out the best the rest of the world could offer. TSL 3 will probably repeat this process.

So we can safely assume that the Koreans will rampage through the NASL like nobody's business. I mean, who really thinks that if we have MKP, MC, Nestea, and MVP in NASL, that more than one foreigner can make top 4? It would be domination. Maybe Tyler or White-Ra gets lucky and takes one out, but we aren't likely to see more than one or two.

So let's say that our top four are MVP, MC, Tyler Nestea (1st/2nd/3rd/4th). we don't have the NASL prize distribution yet, but according to liquipedia the GSL pays 140,000,000 of 200,000,000 Won to 1st/2nd/4th, about 70%. Of the 100,000$ that various foreign sources pump into the NASL, 70% of that money just gets pumped right back to Korea, Korean players, Korean Teams.

And this will hurt the Foreign scene. Money is important, it is what will ultimately allow the foreign scene to stay competitive with Korea, or fall behind. If this 70,000$ goes to players and teams like qxc, Select, Tyler, and Liquid/root/mouz, it will allow players to quit jobs (and therefor play full-time SCII), and teams to get Korean esque practising set-ups. But if that money goes straight back to Korea, and Korean teams, then the foreigners can't get the support they need to stay relevant.






So the NASL isn't just about skill now. It's about skill later. If we allow the top tier Koreans access now, they'll stomp North America, and take all the money and send it back to Korea. And if we do that, then foreign players can't get the support they need to play as the Koreans do, allowing Korea to just widen the skill-gap more and more.

On March 16 2011 12:22 Icekommander wrote:


Ok, I didn't think I'd have to talk about the other part of the economy, but I guess I do. Let me ask you this, where is the money for NASL season 4 going to come from?


You can just pay-out 400,000 dollars. Yay us! Teams can all set up team houses. Except then that 400,000$ would be gone, and the teams will disappear if some new event doesn't come along to keep supplying money.

But if you make it a tournament, the givers can get money back. Advertising and sponsorship and all that. This will result in a greater amount of money in the econom , and allow NASL to go to seasons 4/5/6 ect.

As well as you know, putting on a tournament and giving us something to watch and all that. Why just have your cake, if you can eat it too?

On March 16 2011 12:25 DystopiaX wrote:

Most teams don't support themselves with prize money, they get it through corporate sponsorships. Which are doing fine. Without the NASL.
edit- because your post is unclear, if you're saying NASL needs those sponsorships, they don't care if they're KOrean, because the viewership is still going to be largely NA/EU people and maybe some Koreans. The cororate sponsors sure aren't going to be like "OH HEY A STARCRAFT TOURNAMENT? LET'S GET BEHIND THIS SUCKER" and then be like "OH WAIT THE PLAYERS ARE KOREAN BUT EVERYONE WATCHING THEM IS STILL NA PEOPLE? HELL NO I'M PULLING OUT. I WANT TO SEE WHITE, ENGLISH SPEAKING FACES ONLY"

On March 16 2011 12:24 allecto wrote:


He is the transcendent player on the team that drives their sponsorship deals with local media. Sure, the ownership deserves the credit for putting him on the team.

And, its not completely different if the goal of these people running leagues is to get eSports up to the status of other sport leagues (which from their interviews, it sounds like).

On March 16 2011 12:22 DystopiaX wrote:

Example, MLB used to not let black people play (out of racism, not saying that for this point). they let Jackie Robinson play, the world didn't explode or leave, the MLB didn't lose popularity because he "wasn't like them".

On March 16 2011 12:27 Chicane wrote:

His point still stands. What he was saying is the NASL can't just give out their money if they really were so interested in making sure western players got the money. I know it's easy to get confused because the original quote that he quoted was so absurd that... yeah.