EPTHe seems to take more wins due to his opponent's mistakes or cheese than genuinely good play. I don't know, I haven't been impressed.
He's probably a good invite though just because he's a big name, and has a lot of confidence.
NASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 51
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
He seems to take more wins due to his opponent's mistakes or cheese than genuinely good play. I don't know, I haven't been impressed. He's probably a good invite though just because he's a big name, and has a lot of confidence. | ||
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
Americans and their patriotism, don't let it ruin what could be an amazing tournament. Save it for whenever someone decides to start a sc2 world cup or whatever. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
But they have to have some, as representatives of the best SC2 country. (ya, i said it) Something in the 5-10 out of 50 is fine, any more and people cheering for their countrymen will get annoyed with koreans rolling them too often, any less and people will criticize them for not letting the best play. I'm sure they've chosen the best course of action. | ||
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DJ Roomba
158 Posts
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
On March 16 2011 12:54 DJ Roomba wrote: so are the european players banned too? Nothing is set in stone, nothing has been announced, no one has been banned. Your question is totally useless. | ||
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CursedFeanor
Canada539 Posts
On March 16 2011 12:43 holynorth wrote: Well numbers are speaking for themselves. The majority wants no limit on koreans and I sincerely hope the NASL committee changes their mind to account for that. I'm not sure that teamliquid polls are actually that reliable for them considering the people here are the hardcore fanbase of sc2 : probably the only ones who know and care about korean players. If their goal is to go more mainstream, we're not the #1 priority audience... we'll watch it anyway!  My own opinion is that limiting to a couple top level koreans is the best option to have high level competition, making "foreigner" players really strive to be the best and also to appeal to the largest "foreigner" audience possible. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On March 16 2011 11:56 r33k wrote: I would say to let them play, as long as they submit videos like everyone else. Everyone who submitted their application has been waiting for this sort of event with passion, having koreans just ferried over and basically handed over the money without them actually making any efforts is retarded. In general, the approach that korean players have towards the NASL sounds more and more like "hi me [insert name here] give me monies me play kkkkk". No korean, so far, has taken the effort of explaining why they should be in the NASL. They need a translator? Let them fetch one. It's in their best interest to be part of the NASL, they do not deserve any free invites regardless of their level of play. except they did by stating their accomplishments in the GSL? maybe if you took your fingers out of your ears and went LALALA BAD ENGLISH, you'd hear them. They answered every question that was asked on the application. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On March 16 2011 12:55 abominare wrote: Koreans wont be marketable for making this mainstream. Theyre great to watch but theyll kill esports here in the west. Like all the japanese pitchers that play in MLB? | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 16 2011 11:55 bLuR wrote: the gsl gives 4 foreigner invites, the NASL should do the same with respect to the amount of players in the nasl the gsl give 4 FREE foreigner invites. If more come to there and qualify for code A they wont get denied you know. Everyone gets a fair chance. I don't see this whole "koreans will destroy the western e-sport" statement. When you get your ass kicked, you will either give or start to serious training and basicly showing in the NASL how serious you are if you want. Sponsor sees ppl are dedicated and see the players that wants to non stop improve and there will be a bigger chance he will invest in it since its not just "a casual game" but the real Esport we all want it to be. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On March 16 2011 13:00 Baarn wrote: Like all the japanese pitchers that play in MLB? apples and oranges. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
How so? | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On March 16 2011 13:00 Baarn wrote: Like all the japanese pitchers that play in MLB? Also, racism. Why would Koreans make peopel unwilling to watch starcraft? When you're watching the games you don't even know they're korean. | ||
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PukinDog
United States131 Posts
They started badly, and dont seemed to have learned anything yet. A PROFESSIONAL organization backs up their words with actions, or they dont SAY it. Yeah, I'm mad, because every indication is that these guys are going to fuck up NA E-Sports for quite some time. | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
On March 16 2011 13:00 Baarn wrote: Like all the japanese pitchers that play in MLB? metahpor fail! Baseball was already established here in the US the japanese were draw to getting into the established sport its mroe akin to westerners going to korea if anything it added to the feeling that MLB was the top baseball league in the world. However if you want to sell this to the broader spectrum of the western(or atleast in america) populace a show full of koreans you cant understand, relate to, empathize with playing a 'nerdy' game will kill the league. Their personas are not compatible with what the mainstream audience wants to see. Dont get me wrong I love GSL i love international competition and Id love to see them play but you cant ignore what the new consumer is more likely to buy into. | ||
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Fatty800
United States50 Posts
On March 16 2011 12:11 Icekommander wrote: Why the top-tier Koreans shouldn't be in the NASL The GSL is the absolute pinnacle of SCII skill. Players such as MVP, MC and Nestea are Monsters at the game, and can destroy most of their opposition with ease. This season was something of a hiccup, but I'd bet on MC being the first player to take two GSL seasons. So doesn't this make them top choices for the NASL? That depends on what you want from the NASL. Did we want another GSl esque "Let the Most Skillfull take home the money"? Or did we want the NASL to be the "Pinnacle of Foreign play?" At the moment they are quite different. Quite a few foreigners got blocked from the GSL at various points. Players such as InControL and Kiwikaki got blocked from Season 3, and this season Ret, Moonglade and Haypro couldn't make it past ro32 Code A. There are three foreign players who are noticeable in the Korean scene (Idra, Jinro, HuK), of the 15-20 who have tried at one point or another. It is also important to note IEM. Moon, Ace and Squirtle are hardly the pinnacle of Korean play. All three of them just got demoted to Code B, yet they wiped out the best the rest of the world could offer. TSL 3 will probably repeat this process. So we can safely assume that the Koreans will rampage through the NASL like nobody's business. I mean, who really thinks that if we have MKP, MC, Nestea, and MVP in NASL, that more than one foreigner can make top 4? It would be domination. Maybe Tyler or White-Ra gets lucky and takes one out, but we aren't likely to see more than one or two. So let's say that our top four are MVP, MC, Tyler Nestea (1st/2nd/3rd/4th). we don't have the NASL prize distribution yet, but according to liquipedia the GSL pays 140,000,000 of 200,000,000 Won to 1st/2nd/4th, about 70%. Of the 100,000$ that various foreign sources pump into the NASL, 70% of that money just gets pumped right back to Korea, Korean players, Korean Teams. And this will hurt the Foreign scene. Money is important, it is what will ultimately allow the foreign scene to stay competitive with Korea, or fall behind. If this 70,000$ goes to players and teams like qxc, Select, Tyler, and Liquid/root/mouz, it will allow players to quit jobs (and therefor play full-time SCII), and teams to get Korean esque practising set-ups. But if that money goes straight back to Korea, and Korean teams, then the foreigners can't get the support they need to stay relevant. So the NASL isn't just about skill now. It's about skill later. If we allow the top tier Koreans access now, they'll stomp North America, and take all the money and send it back to Korea. And if we do that, then foreign players can't get the support they need to play as the Koreans do, allowing Korea to just widen the skill-gap more and more. do you have any idea how filthy and disgusting your reasoning sound? 1. whether it becomes another GSL or not depends on the tournament organizers. not the players. 2. foreigners weren't "blocked". some of them lost. you make it sound like they had a handicap. 3. is there something wrong with winning prize money? no matter where you are from or who you represent, to make it to the finals and win isnt easy. and it will provide good entertaining to those who watch. 4. if a team such as Team Liquid, Root, or mouz wins. that doesnt change the fact that ONE of their team member won. you dont know if they will share it with 10 other NA teams to establish a gaming house and pay them full time so they can keep practicing. a team is financed by sponsors. winning 1 tournament "can" help the team. but most definitely it will help that ONE player. 5. QUIT DISSING NORTH AMERICA!! if you want esports to grow in NA, you spread the word. get businesses to sponsor teams and promote their product. sponsored teams that pays the players to play is what NA needs. once that happens, everyone can stop making excuses by saying they are juggling work and school and other crap that life puts them through. Korea has that established. We dont. your post fucking pisses me off. just stfu. | ||
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Bru
Sweden184 Posts
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dormer
United States1314 Posts
That said, the GSL already fills that need in a way, so maybe it would be better to make NASL more focused on the NA scene as a way to increase the level of play there. Koreans didn't just magically get good at SC2, they've been training hard and forming teams to compete in the GSL. I'd hope that the NASL could serve a similar role for the West - a major league that will encourage people to train their asses off, form teams to practice and receive coaching, and give them experience playing in major tournaments. There's no reason why all the top players in the world have to be Korean - with the same dedication and effort, NA and EU players should be able to compete at that level, which I think would be much more interesting and good for e-sports overall. Jinro comes to mind here. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Because they're just a small part of an American TEAM. In NASL, each player will be represented by himself alone in terms of personality, interviews, rivalry, all that kind of stuff. What NASL wants is to get more personal, get behind the stories and the characters and have lots of interviews and stuff like that. If those Japanese pitchers can't speak English, they're not the ones being interviewed by ESPN, and they're not the baseball card all the kids want. | ||
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jaydee81
Germany119 Posts
On March 16 2011 11:56 MadCatZ wrote: your arguments were not even good sorry you kept re-stating how we have to go to korea to play but you have to go to US to play in top16. Can you really not comprehend the argument? There is a difference between a) moving/going to Korea for a chance to qualify for a US$1.500 for 1st place tournament (or since very recently getting seeded into it without having to qualify) for a period of at least 2 months to compete for serious price money b) a weekend trip to Cali if you are amongst the top 16 (I think I even read something about travel stipendia), which I would guess might already guarantee US$1.500, but we obviously don't know the price distribution yet. Bad argument? I beg to differ. I'm not sure about the number of Koreans I'd like to see in the NASL, so I won't argue about that. Fact is the participation of foreigners in the GSL has been indirectly limited because of the reasons mentioned above. The GSL it appears would actually like more foreigners to increase the chances of some or someone advancing deep into the tournament as it increases the number of foreign spectators. Personally, when Jinro was still in it I planned things so I could watch the matches live in the morning. Now not so much. I might watch the VODs at some point, but tbh if I don't have time that same evening I hardly watch any of matches 2-3 days ago. With some exceptions, I am more interested in US/EU players and this has nothing to do with racism as somebody has painted it in an earlier post. They play good soccer in South America, doesn't mean I should follow it over EU soccer. I think if Korean players get accepted by recent achievements instead of hard-capping the number, we'll have a healthy mix. Cheers, JD | ||
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