EPTNASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 21
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:36 hmunkey wrote: Yeah, but he's a 15 year old who's basically lying his ass off and making gross exaggerations over and over. And as any internet forum, people are taking the bait.  Rekrul speaks the truth, but unfortunately poeple are falling for his troll bait over and over again | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
Any competitive game I've played, intercontinental matches are bullshit and fucking annoying. Iccup was decent but we are stuck on the worst network latency ever. Also it screws up timing / communicating so much. Nothing is a bigger pain than organizing a EU/NA match and going through the whole server picking bullshit. I think the lag alone is a good enough reason to exclude koreans. I foresee TSL3 becoming pretty ridiculous with EU playing vrs KOR players. I just don't believe it's possible to run a big worldwide tournament on bnet 2.0 and have it at all be legit. | ||
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NonSenSeWins
United States66 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:26 Skillz_Man wrote: I think it needs to be a non-korean tourney. The only Analogy I can think of is: Nobody wants to watch a Grizzly Bear fight in UFC. It's about being able to relate to the players for most viewers, unlike the hardcore ones here at Teamliquid. Watching some korean guys play who don't even speak english isn't interesting to most. And that's why I think maybe have a limit of 5 koreans... But I think no koreans would be even better. People drastically overestimate the gab between NA/EU and Korea. All of them bring great games to the table and in the end it's all that matters. And with lots of money on the line, it may become more popular for people to quit their jobs to play Starcraft and close the gap between Koreans completely. i would love to see a grizzly bear in the ufc. | ||
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Bluerain
United States348 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:05 dacthehork wrote: Hey guys think of the 50 slots of all these american/canadian etc players trying to make it in ESPORTS, how many can actually financially attend GSL To take one of the first North American events, along with MLG, and fill it with koreans who already have the GSL is unfair imo. NA scene needs to develop, can't just say, oh this scene started first and had 85k first place tournaments already, lets invite them only to all these events. Yes they are better, but thats because they literally had 20x the financial incentives and backbones. When those big tournaments come to america, players will emerge. NASL seems the best opportunity for ACTUAL WESTERN TEAMS / players to develop. filling it with gosu koreans who have been living in a pro gaming house for the last 8 months playing in 150k+ prize money tournies is just as unfair. europeans also have their events. this should be 30 NA/SA players, and 20 other invites based on skill/popularity. so this could end up being 15 koreans and 5 euros or vice versa. the other way is just to make it completely OPEN but that wont happen. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:38 ch33psh33p wrote: Rekrul speaks the truth, but unfortunately poeple are falling for his troll bait over and over again I don't understand how it's troll bait to have a minority opinion. | ||
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Sworn
Canada920 Posts
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KallWest
Germany24 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:27 Pokebunny wrote: I completely agree that my opinion is subjective, however I don't think it's fair to say my points are based entirely on the race of the player. I'm merely expressing what I would like to see as a spectator. I'm sorry but it just doesn't seem credible to me that someone would find the GSL boring. The GSLTL had some of the coolest games ever and the games today between Zenio and Boxer were entertaining as hell! And those are just two examples. Remember Fruitdealer in GSL1? When he went 3-0 in the finals, my heart was racing like crazy! And that wasn't the only time that happend! Also, watch the ro32 code S group games. The players show plenty of personality in the interview clips they show before the matches. And I don't mind reading subtitles. If they did the same in NASL I would be perfectly happy. Saying the GSL is boring is like saying "Brazil has a horrible soccer team". Sure, it's an opinion, but everyone who knows soccer will think that you don't know what you are talking about. | ||
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
i feel that 5 korean invites is too low a number, i feel that about ten would be much more fair in giving korea some representation while still keeping it a foreigner tournament at its heart. I understand that we want the "best of the best" and stuff, but there are many problems with this philosophy when it comes to inviting the koreans. My personal interest in this tournament is that i want to see WESTERN esports grow. I have no interest in watching korean esports invade the nasl. I agree that to see the best starcraft we would have to invite mostly koreans, but I can already see that in the GSL, and i would much rather see my favorite foreigner players compete and get to the level of the koreans by practicing themselves. That said, to make this tournament more valid this way i think letting in around 10 koreans is fair enough. The tournament is still mostly foreigners, but there is a definite korean presence as well to up the competition. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:31 Rokk wrote: I don't agree with Pokebunny at all, but at least refute his arguments instead of making up bullshit when he has stated the opposite multiple times. It doesn't matter what he states. Even if he's not going to make it in this season, if Koreans start getting invited, the chances of him ever competing in the future (in case his skill rises) will still be hurt. Subconsciously, I'm sure he knows this and all this other reasoning is just to justify these gut feelings. | ||
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Rokk
United States425 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:35 hmunkey wrote: Look at his signature. He applied for the NASL. If Koreans compete, he has no chance of getting in seeing as he's not considered to be that high-level of a player. Please tell me when I was the one bullshitting. Making up bullshit in the sense that you're just pulling things unrelated to his argument to attack him with, not that what you said was untrue. I'm not going to try and piece together his terrible argument, but you can at least refute that instead of saying "lol no, you're just thinking about yourself as a competitor". What do you want him to say? "You're right, got me!" He's addressed this point several times before, and bringing it up isn't going to help anyone. | ||
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ImHuko
United States996 Posts
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ultramafia
221 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:30 Pokebunny wrote: Can you not separate me as a player and spectator? I've specifically stated all my opinions expressed are of myself as a spectator. I was a spectator for years. No i can't. You said yourself you'd love to be a part of this league. You also know allowing only the best players in the world in the league leaves almost no chance of you making it. So your opinion to me is as a player. I could care less as your opinion as a spectator as you already said you would rather watch mlg than GSL. | ||
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LostDevil
Fiji283 Posts
Also, like Rekrul said, pokebunny is a 15 year old and you guys are letting him cause a shit storm. I search my old broodwar ID on here and there are posts of HovZ and Bigballs shitting on me because I was 15. He is lucky TL.net is civilized these days or these threads wouldn't have even lasted three pages with him in them. | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:24 Pokebunny wrote: I don't understand how you can say I'm being racist when every point I've made has simply been due to practicality and entertainment rather than race. Your points aren't racist, but but they are naive. Saying that they're here only for the money incredibly silly, and will be proven incorrect when NASL starts. While I think have too many Koreans would hurt the entertainment value, having 5 - 10 of them competing here would add a lot to the entainment. And they would absolutely try their best to reach out to other players and fans. This has been the case with the fighting game community, where Japanese players have contributed greatly to the NA scene, despite the language barrier. And these people are only in NA for a few weekends each year. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:38 Pokebunny wrote: I don't understand how it's troll bait to have a minority opinion. what you have isn't called an opinion, it's called a flawed understanding of what a real competition is | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 16 2011 08:40 KallWest wrote: I'm sorry but it just doesn't seem credible to me that someone would find the GSL boring. The GSLTL had some of the coolest games ever and the games today between Zenio and Boxer were entertaining as hell! And those are just two examples. Remember Fruitdealer in GSL1? When he went 3-0 in the finals, my heart was racing like crazy! And that wasn't the only time that happend! Also, watch the ro32 code S group games. The players show plenty of personality in the interview clips they show before the matches. And I don't mind reading subtitles. If they did the same in NASL I would be perfectly happy. Saying the GSL is boring is like saying "Brazil has a horrible soccer team". Sure, it's an opinion, but everyone who knows soccer will think that you don't know what you are talking about. I don't understand .. A better analogy is saying I'd rather watch American soccer than Brazilian soccer, even though I know Brazilians are more skilled. Which is my opinion. Sure it's not the majority, but it's my opinion. I watch some GSL games when people recommend them, but that's about it. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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CEPEHDREI
Germany1521 Posts
If they want to be big they need at least 10 koreans. | ||
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KeithJar
Sweden30 Posts
There is quite a few reaaaally good foreigners that could stand up to the top Koreans and at a minimum give a very entertaining match. Furthermore the talk about how Koreans dominated IEM taking 1,2 and 3 place proves that the Koreans are leaps and boundaries ahead of the foreigners isn't really true. Sure I agree with it to some extent but come on, e.g. ST_Squirtle had a reaaaally tough time during IEM which he even said in an interview. But also that you can't really judge it all from 1 tournament, since that is not really enough data to decide the skill difference. And I couldn't agree more with SexyHyung's post. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2011 08:03 SexyHyung wrote: Listening to Pokebunny, at first I thought he was trolling, but I guess this is what happens when you let little kids post whatever they want without supervision. I was insulted by many things that he said. First of all, he stated somewhere that korean players are only in this for the money. Let's not be naive and pretend that money isn't a factor in this, but to blatantly accuse every single korean player of being a money grubbing ho is just ridiculous. I'm sure that pokebunny is too young to know, but some people have other motivations to play starcraft, such as they find it fun, they love to play starcraft, and they want to be known, they want to show some great games to their fans, and they want to play against some good foreigners and have some great games. People don't become professional starcraft gamers just for the money. Something that just comes to mind for example is a video I recently saw of Artosis at the 2005 WCG. He said that he just quit whatever job he was doing and spend a few months focusing solely on getting better, and that it was the highlight of his year. That was how dedicated he was and how much he loved the game. Are you going to accuse him of moving to korea and becoming a paid caster just because he's greedy and hes in it for the money? Pokebunny also said that julyzerg was being fake, and not into whatever just because his english wasn't that great. Are you serious? Do you honestly expect people who probably studied some korean in highschool to be able to freely speak english? Yah, maybe they've seen titanic, but that's not enough to make you fluent. And you're not even referring to anybody else. Have you heard Moman? I don't even know half the shit he's saying. It's not as if I don't get the subtle reference here is that you don't like english with non-white accents. No matter how racist you don't think you are, it really makes me wonder. All you hear is probably ching chong ling long ting tong, but i can understand them alot more clearly than 90% of the european player videos. I'm not even going to mention some others, like QXC, who doesn't even have sound in his. reminds me of this and to say that korean sc2 players have no personality is so lulzy. sure they may be polite, but it's not as if people like socke or white-ra are raging in their face. they can conduct funny interviews to, albeit in korean due to the english language barrier. they have shit tons of personality, most of it showed through the playing style of their games. they don't need to have idra-level BM to have personality. theres also a few other things i want to point out. first of all is how accepting GSL is of foreigners. can anyone actually name me a better league that has done so much to help foreigners compete? -foreigners not being placed against each other in qualifiers so they don't know each other out -english stream -english casters (tastosis and kellymilkies and doa) -4 free code A spots (not even going to mention how hard the qualifiers are. i'm pretty sure code A qualifiers are alot harder than IEM or MLG) -FREE FOREIGNER HOUSING if you want to stay and train and compete -translators (john) -flying players in for the world team league all the teams are nice too. OGS works with liquid. Even ST invited Torch. To say that they aren't doing anything to help foreigners is ridiculous. and someone said that koreans didn't have to stay and live, and that was a huge barrier, and that koreans only had to stay for a weekend to compete. i fail to see how thats a problem, as it's only because of the playing format. the korean matches are played live, so the people have to be there. you can go wherever the hell you want between your matches, as all you have to do is show up. NASL matches apparently are online, so you don't need to live in that area to compete, or i'm sure that would limit foreigners just like GSL does. i just want to end what i'm saying with that i understand that NASL is to help foreign esports grow. i'm not advocating having all players be korean. even 5-10 spots would be great. but this blind idiocy that people like pokebunny have is just retarded. i personally think it would be awesome to have NA players beat korean players. Anybody that could take on MVP in a best of 3 and win would automatically become a sc2 celebrity, just like squirtle. if i wanted to settle for ok master level games with entertainment value i'd just watch destiny's stream as his zerg QQ is 10x more entertaining than pokebunny will ever be Also there is a big reason that most Korean progamers do not stream, it's simply due to the fact that anybody including their opponents can tune into it and learn everything about their tactics. Not 100% certain though, but I do know that it at least does affect them. | ||
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