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Canada13405 Posts
On March 13 2011 03:29 Mjolnir wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 22:13 Alpina wrote:Very sad about infestor missile reverted  Missile gives nice micro to the game - muta/phoenix/hellion micro would be really cool vs. FG. And I can't believe they reverted infestors hp - I mean what's the point? It's not adding "nice micro" or "skill" to the game when you have to completely guess where your opponent is moving to. People can bait and avoid FG as it is in it's current form. Adding the missile animation makes avoiding FGs easier and casting them goes from being quick on the trigger to basically guessing. That's not skill or micro and it detracts from the game.
Actually what it does is makes it so that a PDD dropped down by a Raven does NOT block the spell because it did in the PTR as I tested it with a friend real quick out of curiosity.
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I can imagine that they changed FG back is because of muta's in ZvZ.
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i really wish that all blues and the balance team are now forced to play with a stream so that we can see how they really play
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On March 12 2011 23:01 Hollis wrote:
A significant Spine Crawler build time reduction would help a lot, I think. 50 seconds is way too long.
I disagree. I think that would wreck zvz, and it'd boil it down to 7 pool spine crawler rushing
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I believe the stim nerf was specifically to eliminate the timing window where terrans would have stim but baneling speed hadn't quite finished. Its a really scary timing for a zerg. I think a side effect is making it easier to bust a terran fast expand with a couple timing push options.
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On March 13 2011 03:34 Cajun2k1 wrote:
I can imagine that they changed FG back is because of muta's in ZvZ.
I don't know why they're so obsessed with trying to get air units out of fungal, since it's becoming obvious that it hurts game play...
It's like they want phoenix and mutas to rule the game, only to take it back on the ptr
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On March 13 2011 03:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Stim change still sucks, it makes no sense - when was the last time terran did something that mmade you go "Man, if only stim was 30 seconds slower"?
Just gonna fuck up early game TvP and TvZ =/
How come you don't have blue posting, I almost missed you
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So infestors still die to 2 siege tank shots?
*sigh*
At least mass bio stim timing attacks will come later than usual..
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On March 13 2011 03:29 Mjolnir wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 22:13 Alpina wrote:Very sad about infestor missile reverted Missile gives nice micro to the game - muta/phoenix/hellion micro would be really cool vs. FG. And I can't believe they reverted infestors hp - I mean what's the point? It's not adding "nice micro" or "skill" to the game when you have to completely guess where your opponent is moving to. People can bait and avoid FG as it is in it's current form. Adding the missile animation makes avoiding FGs easier and casting them goes from being quick on the trigger to basically guessing. That's not skill or micro and it detracts from the game.
How can you argue that you can avoid fungal in current form? Ofc you can bait a poor player to fungal on nothing, but once you are in range, cast and actually have your little circle above the enemy you cannot miss.
Ofc it's micro and skill involved in a projectile based spell. Are you somehow arguing that almost all skills in DotA/HoN are luck based? The way it's micro and skill based is how you predict movement and force movement to the way you want and apply exquisite timing. This is done in alot of sports (soccer, football etc).
I've read so many people arguing the same thing as you just did, and it's just completely disregarding every other thing that happens in the game besides the actual spell flying to a target area which imho is shortsighted.
That beeing said, it was probably too slow (the projectile) and could use tweaking, but whatever, they reverted it and zerg shall rejoice.
I hope they add something similar in a future expansion or whatever...
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On March 12 2011 22:41 Grummler wrote:
So, we get an update including an emp nerf and Protosses are QQing about the ht nerf we already knew about.
Its a ghost nerf and therefore a small ht buff afterall. Its shocking how a Protoss players manages to QQ about a ghost nerf, while most terrans are like "well, emp WAS to strong, good they start nerfing it".
We are not QQing about the ghost nerf, but about the fact that blizzard doesn't look like they know what they are doing. I mean, why do you normally nerf something? Because it's a little bit too strong against a unit or something (in this case I guess it was HTs). But what did they do with the change? Almost nothing. There is no way a protoss will be able to have HTs with 175 energy or more in a game where the terran knows what he's doing. There is just no point in nerfing it if it's not gonna change anything, it only worrie people that might think blizzard don't know what to do.
EDIT: Typo
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On March 13 2011 03:44 PatouPower wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 22:41 Grummler wrote:
So, we get an update including an emp nerf and Protosses are QQing about the ht nerf we already knew about.
Its a ghost nerf and therefore a small ht buff afterall. Its shocking how a Protoss players manages to QQ about a ghost nerf, while most terrans are like "well, emp WAS to strong, good they start nerfing it". We are not QQing about the protoss nerf, but about the fact that blizzard doesn't look like they know what they are doing. I mean, why do you normally nerf something? Because it's a little bit too strong against a unit or something (in this case I guess it was HTs). But what did they do with the change? Almost nothing. There is no way a protoss will be able to have HTs with 175 energy or more in a game where the terran knows what he's doing. There is just no point in nerfing it if it's not gonna change anything, it only worrie people that might think blizzard don't know what to do.
Oh they know what they're doing, I promise you this: they've been dealing with starcraft longer than you have. Maybe you should just learn to play better.
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On March 13 2011 03:47 SilverPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 03:44 PatouPower wrote:On March 12 2011 22:41 Grummler wrote:
So, we get an update including an emp nerf and Protosses are QQing about the ht nerf we already knew about.
Its a ghost nerf and therefore a small ht buff afterall. Its shocking how a Protoss players manages to QQ about a ghost nerf, while most terrans are like "well, emp WAS to strong, good they start nerfing it". We are not QQing about the protoss nerf, but about the fact that blizzard doesn't look like they know what they are doing. I mean, why do you normally nerf something? Because it's a little bit too strong against a unit or something (in this case I guess it was HTs). But what did they do with the change? Almost nothing. There is no way a protoss will be able to have HTs with 175 energy or more in a game where the terran knows what he's doing. There is just no point in nerfing it if it's not gonna change anything, it only worrie people that might think blizzard don't know what to do. Oh they know what they're doing, I promise you this: they've been dealing with starcraft longer than you have. Maybe you should just learn to play better.
Maybe you should learn to respect the opinions of other people and learn some manners. Just because he disagrees with you does not give you the right to say "Yeh, butz, you suck at game so shut up im right."
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On March 13 2011 03:47 SilverPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 03:44 PatouPower wrote:On March 12 2011 22:41 Grummler wrote:
So, we get an update including an emp nerf and Protosses are QQing about the ht nerf we already knew about.
Its a ghost nerf and therefore a small ht buff afterall. Its shocking how a Protoss players manages to QQ about a ghost nerf, while most terrans are like "well, emp WAS to strong, good they start nerfing it". We are not QQing about the protoss nerf, but about the fact that blizzard doesn't look like they know what they are doing. I mean, why do you normally nerf something? Because it's a little bit too strong against a unit or something (in this case I guess it was HTs). But what did they do with the change? Almost nothing. There is no way a protoss will be able to have HTs with 175 energy or more in a game where the terran knows what he's doing. There is just no point in nerfing it if it's not gonna change anything, it only worrie people that might think blizzard don't know what to do. Oh they know what they're doing, I promise you this: they've been dealing with starcraft longer than you have. Maybe you should just learn to play better.
Hum, I don't have problem with ghosts and I don't think it will be a huge problem post-patch either, I am just stating the facts: I wonder why blizzard put this nerf on. It won't change anything to TvZ, since an infestors is always in need somewhere to cast fungal growth to have more than 150 energy. It won't change anything to PvZ either for the same reason: an HT will almost never be able to get over 175 energy if a terran knows what he's doing. I don't know from where you got the fact that I was struggling against ghosts when I clearly said nothing about it affecting the game in a BAD way. The only point I was trying to make is why they are nerfing it. That's all.
Oh, and will you tell Jinro that he sucks at the game too because he said stim nerf was plain stupid? Blizzard knows their game and they are good at balancing it, but they are human and can make mistakes.
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No amulet is a bummer when it comes to fun factor and spectating, but am I the only one looking forward to the new Zealot change?
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Ok, so they revoked the change everyone liked (fungal as a missile) and kept the change everyone hated (no Khaydarin Amulet).
Can't say I'm thrilled. The EMP nerf will sort of help offset the loss of KA, I guess. I don't see why they insist on keeping Infestors so fragile, but it's a minor point for me.
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On March 13 2011 03:57 Hokay wrote:
No amulet is a bummer when it comes to fun factor and spectating, but am I the only one looking forward to the new Zealot change?
No, I'm very happy about it as it's the biggest change for my own gameplay since I incorporate alot of Zealots in my vT play  .
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On March 13 2011 03:59 3clipse wrote:
Ok, so they revoked the change everyone liked (fungal as a missile) and kept the change everyone hated (no Khaydarin Amulet).
Except that "everyone" didn't like having FG as a missile. Just look at the thread; for every 3 posts bitching about KA's removal, there's one post bitching about FG now being dodgeable.
I'm mostly indifferent myself.
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On March 13 2011 03:59 3clipse wrote:
Ok, so they revoked the change everyone liked (fungal as a missile) and kept the change everyone hated (no Khaydarin Amulet).
Can't say I'm thrilled. The EMP nerf will sort of help offset the loss of KA, I guess. I don't see why they insist on keeping Infestors so fragile, but it's a minor point for me.
What? Who liked fungal as missile? It moved SO SLOWLY. It was a joke.
All the other changes I don't mind. Though I feel they should remove investor armor class, or at least give it one natural armor
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On March 13 2011 03:59 3clipse wrote:
Ok, so they revoked the change everyone liked (fungal as a missile) and kept the change everyone hated (no Khaydarin Amulet).
Can't say I'm thrilled. The EMP nerf will sort of help offset the loss of KA, I guess. I don't see why they insist on keeping Infestors so fragile, but it's a minor point for me.
Really I thought it was the other way around.
That slow a projectile is ridiculous IMO. Mass marines would just be insanely powerful without any reasonable counter. You can easily dodge banelings and FG, so what could stop it? If the projectile was faster (or instant as now) it would be fine.
I thought most people admitted that KA made protoss completely unbreakable with warp in storm. I don't know why people are commenting so much on the EMP nerf. It doesn't seem major at all.
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On March 13 2011 04:08 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 03:59 3clipse wrote:
Ok, so they revoked the change everyone liked (fungal as a missile) and kept the change everyone hated (no Khaydarin Amulet). Except that "everyone" didn't like having FG as a missile. Just look at the thread; for every 3 posts bitching about KA's removal, there's one post bitching about FG now being dodgeable. I'm mostly indifferent myself.
On March 13 2011 04:09 reneg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 03:59 3clipse wrote:
Ok, so they revoked the change everyone liked (fungal as a missile) and kept the change everyone hated (no Khaydarin Amulet).
Can't say I'm thrilled. The EMP nerf will sort of help offset the loss of KA, I guess. I don't see why they insist on keeping Infestors so fragile, but it's a minor point for me. What? Who liked fungal as missile? It moved SO SLOWLY. It was a joke. All the other changes I don't mind. Though I feel they should remove investor armor class, or at least give it one natural armor
I guess I misinterpreted the consensus, but there were also posts talking about how it could be cast just in front of an advancing army, keeping infestors safer. I'm not looking at it as a change that buffs the ability, but rather one that makes sc2 a better spectator sport. I think fg dodging could become a fun aspect of the game. Maybe a tweak to make the missile a bit faster would be needed, but I really liked the concept.
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