EPTinsta vs. missile shot - Page 15
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
banelings and tanks...fine, those make sense to have smartfire. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
First: instant attacks deal initial damage quicker. Average damage rate is the same, but the first hit arrives faster, meaning that the opposing force loses their units slightly faster, meaning they lose DPS over the course of the fight because they lost units faster. Second: Overkill. Instant attacks don't overkill, so no shots are wasted. Missile attacks do overkill, so some attacks are completely wasted. | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
On March 07 2011 10:47 Rucky wrote: I think they should just take away smartfire. No overkilling means no micro. I just have a huge problem with terran not having to micro their marines. Just doesn't sit well with me. They can easily do this by making the missles of marines so fast that it is not noticeable but since it's not exactly instant, overkill will occur? (correct me if i'm wrong about this) banelings and tanks...fine, those make sense to have smartfire. Blizzard already balances units to account for the overkill. If you take away the hitscan, you'll need to increase the dps of half the Terran units or they'll be severely nerfed. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On March 07 2011 10:34 KevinIX wrote: Blizzard definitely knows about this. They take into account the "overkill" damage of projectile units when balancing units. It's ok for most units to overkill. It makes units like Terran infantry/tanks unique. Also, instant attacks aren't affected by PDDs. They only changed this for the siege tank, and only after months of seeing players complain about it and owning with it. Marines weren't modified at all, in fact quite the opposite... marines have an insane attack execution time right now compared to SC1... They don't just move then shoot like in SC1, they are moving while shooting like the phoenix, which is dumb. | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On March 07 2011 10:54 Angra wrote: I'm going to 1a two types of units into each other. Whichever one wins is overpowered and should be nerfed. Hi, how is what you wrote relevant? | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
On March 07 2011 10:51 KevinIX wrote: Blizzard already balances units to account for the overkill. If you take away the hitscan, you'll need to increase the dps of half the Terran units or they'll be severely nerfed. that's exactly what i'm saying they should do. increase dps to balance the game. DO whatever. I don't really care. Just make it so that micro is there. I hate a-move. | ||
Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
I'd be interested to see what happens if you place the hydras in a circle and all the rines in the middle. The rines would probably still win, atleast while being equal(since there's no reason they wouldn't) but I'd assume the hydras would win when they were actually stronger, since it ain't set up to give worst possible result for overkill. | ||
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Kazang
578 Posts
On March 07 2011 10:51 Xapti wrote: They only changed this for the siege tank, and only after months of seeing players complain about it and owning with it. Marines weren't modified at all, in fact quite the opposite... marines have an insane attack execution time right now compared to SC1... They don't just move then shoot like in SC1, they are moving while shooting like the phoenix, which is dumb. LOL No marines cannot move and shoot at the same time, also marine rate of fire with stim is actually slower than it was in broodwar, stim is only a 50% increase instead of 100% dps increase. BW stim marines do 2x dps, SC2 marines do 1.5x dps. | ||
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AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
On March 07 2011 11:06 Kazang wrote: LOL No marines cannot move and shoot at the same time, also marine rate of fire with stim is actually slower than it was in broodwar, stim is only a 50% increase instead of 100% dps increase. BW stim marines do 2x dps, SC2 marines do 1.5x dps. nony has said repeatedly that marines are like phoenixes in that they can move and shoot at the same time. | ||
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Tipany
United States368 Posts
On March 07 2011 10:54 Angra wrote: I'm going to 1a two types of units into each other. Whichever one wins is overpowered and should be nerfed. Lol wait, I'm not sure what the point you're trying to get across here is. But I think you're not getting the OP? | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On March 07 2011 11:08 TheJoyBringer wrote: Lol wait, I'm not sure what the point you're trying to get across here is. But I think you're not getting the OP? *this video doesn't say that marines are OP or hydralisks are UP!!* But look how they decimate these hydralisks when given equal values because they have an instant shot. But *this video doesn't say that marines are OP or hydralisks are UP!!* but should there really be that big of a difference between instant and missle shot? *this video doesn't say that marines are OP or hydralisks are UP!!* you be the judge!!! ok sorry I guess I'm just tired of all these threads of people giving completely random examples of the way the game works and then cleverly hiding their balance theory by having a disclaimer saying they aren't discussing balance theory | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On March 07 2011 11:08 AssuredVacancy wrote: nony has said repeatedly that marines are like phoenixes in that they can move and shoot at the same time. Ugh...if marine can shoot while they run then while im stimming marine away they should be able to kill the baneling that are behind them. I think nony just referencing marine like that because marine shoots really fast but in reality, marine can NOT shoot why they are moving. This is common knowledge. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
This is probably the most significant example of how much worse the missile aspect makes it. | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On March 07 2011 11:20 Angra wrote: *this video doesn't say that marines are OP or hydralisks are UP!!* But look how they decimate these hydralisks when given equal values because they have an instant shot. But *this video doesn't say that marines are OP or hydralisks are UP!!* but should there really be that big of a difference between instant and missle shot? *this video doesn't say that marines are OP or hydralisks are UP!!* you be the judge!!! ok sorry I guess I'm just tired of all these threads of people giving completely random examples of the way the game works and then cleverly hiding their balance theory by having a disclaimer saying they aren't discussing balance theory So if he used marauders instead of the hydras and set all the values equal to the marine, would you be appeased? | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 07 2011 11:49 pzea469 wrote: I think all units should have projectiles, even if they're invisible and or super fast. That way all units would overkill. Having units not overkill just seems too efficient and sorta noobifies the game. Balance aside, i just don't think its good for starcraft. Removing the smart AI would also reinstate overkill to a large extent. BW is probably the best example. | ||
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