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On March 06 2011 17:59 Lokian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 11:52 Xxavi wrote:
So people are saying Blizzard got angry with Kespa asking money.
Let's now take a step back and look at other professional sports organizations. Like Spanish or English football leagues. They negotiate the TV money, and then distribute it to professional teams.
Now, my question is, KESPA charges money from TV companies and as a non-profit organization, do they distribute this money to pro-teams? Like where does a team get so much money for salaries of their stars? Surely there's TV money?
If that is the case, and I am not sure it is, then why people still defend Blizzard? Blizzard doesn't pay the salary of Flash or Bisu, their teams do. And their teams have to earn somehow, and of course that would involve TV deals.
If I was wrong here, then I will be glad to listen to the facts. Teams are supported by their sponsors. That's how they get their money. TV money is the illegal thing... I hate to compare this to SC2, but theres teams, theres team leagues, theres big tournaments, heck, they have better living conditions probably. Look at those huge monitors and gaming PC. I don't even have one.  Do they get TV money? I don't think so. Maybe not even prize money. Anyways... Not sure how Kespa pioneered BW. They just caught on when it was getting good and got free money. With free money, you can do a lot of things. If I had free money I would probably make something cool too and have everyone like it and when the repercussions come, the people can defend me since they like me. -_- And... didn't we establish the fact that players are not a property value? Thats what blizz was talking about players rights in their argument.
If blizz came to that conclusion then maybe the should understand the value of a progaming license and just let the play their more prestigious leagues, instead of trying to force sc2 on them and sue the broadcasters who make them earn a living and being able to carry out their dreams.
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eSports > blizzard, they'll learn that the hard way as soon a aoncurrent RTS appears with better terms..
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On March 06 2011 19:59 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
eSports > blizzard, they'll learn that the hard way as soon a aoncurrent RTS appears with better terms..
Dawn of War 2? Noone makes these kinds of RTSs besides Blizzard.
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On March 05 2011 19:10 Lotar wrote:
They might be "KeSPA-sanctioned" but it's still StarCraft. IP rights should still apply, although IANAL.
Does that mean if you are coaching players and selling lessons through videos of yourself playing sc2 that it is in violation of blizzards IP rights? I'm not implying I'm just asking.
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I think you'd need to have at least 100 lawyers and go to the Supreme Court a couple of times to have a definitive answer on that 
I don't know whether it would be considered a public(?) performance or a derivative work, but if you show the game being played (as opposed to only showing a closeup of your face or your hands while you're teaching) then Activision/Blizzard's IP rights should come into play. Unless they somehow permit it in their EULA.
Of course, since I'm not a lawyer I'm talking out of my ass. If I was going to create a coaching business I would definitely get counselled by a lawyer specialized in IP rights. It would be interesting to ask the people behind GosuCoaching (Russell Pfister I believe?) what kind of hoops they had to jump through.
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all the kids saying kespa for esports....they just want teh moneyz and so does blizzard
in the end blizzard is the winner since it is because of them there is starcraft to begin with
so +1 for blizzard
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Have their been any discussions that KeSPA could just pay Blizzard a certain amount, and we can just let them have anything Broodwar they want?
**Yes I realize this wouldn't fix the OP.
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On March 07 2011 04:12 rbkl wrote:
Have their been any discussions that KeSPA could just pay Blizzard a certain amount, and we can just let them have anything Broodwar they want?
**Yes I realize this wouldn't fix the OP.
Blizzard is demanding too much.
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On March 03 2011 02:50 SkCom wrote:
Although it is sad for eSports you have to realise Blizzard is a full-fledged company and they have to protect their rights. We're talking THOUSANDS of jobs here and hundreds of familis tepending on Blizzard's income every month.
I feel a lot of people support kespa because of loyalty and fail to see the biggure picture. In a perfect world they would respect the authority of the figure providing the IPs.
Either way, as I said, sad for eSports but Blizz is losing a ton of money from KESPA and that's a lot of money that doesn't go towards the development of our favorite games.
I know this is 9 pages behind the train but I just want to point out how insane this post is.
They are not a company that is in danger, by any means whatsoever.
They have been consistently more than happy with "losing money" for over 12 years from KESPA.
Also, as a long time blizzard fan I can safely say they have yet to spend money on any development of my favorite games for quite some time.
Again, not to get into it and sorry to be off topic, but you know how it is I'm sure.
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I love seeing people stand up against the greed and terrible customer relationships that defines Blizzard 2011.
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Ok for all of those supporting blizzard: Name a single way in which blizzard winning will have a positive impact for the pro broodwar scene or name a single way in which kespa winning will have a negative impact for the scene. Because that's the only thing I care about here.
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On March 07 2011 05:00 L3gendary wrote:
Ok for all of those supporting blizzard: Name a single way in which blizzard winning will have a positive impact for the pro broodwar scene or name a single way in which kespa winning will have a negative impact for the scene. Because that's the only thing I care about here.
Blizzard winning can only mean bad things for BW since they want to switch to SC2, though I'd love to see people like Jaedong/Flash playing SC2 while still in their prime. Kespa winning means more of the same, which I guess is ok but it could be better.
Blizzard has every right to do what they are doing and I support them. They finally got fed up with Kespa after some 12yrs and decided to do something about it.
On March 07 2011 04:14 etheovermind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:12 rbkl wrote:
Have their been any discussions that KeSPA could just pay Blizzard a certain amount, and we can just let them have anything Broodwar they want?
**Yes I realize this wouldn't fix the OP. Blizzard is demanding too much.
And Kespa is offering too little.
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On March 07 2011 04:27 TheGlassface wrote:
I know this is 9 pages behind the train but I just want to point out how insane this post is.
They are not a company that is in danger, by any means whatsoever.
They have been consistently more than happy with "losing money" for over 12 years from KESPA.
Also, as a long time blizzard fan I can safely say they have yet to spend money on any development of my favorite games for quite some time.
Again, not to get into it and sorry to be off topic, but you know how it is I'm sure.
Making this argument is eerily similar to the music industry prior to Napster (and P2P in general). Both Blizzard and the music industry may be motivated by greed, but to claim that either or both were "more than happy" with their respective situations is outright arrogant.
Starcraft 1 / Broodwar was a popular game but the pro-gamer scene was still niche and locally centered on Korea in a time when the cyber and online gaming world were, relatively speaking, The Stone Ages. Go back and play SC1/BW on check out the original battle.net, which had to function for 28.8bps dialup modems on Windows 95/98 computers. PS2 and Xbox didn't even exist yet, Everquest and MMOs were still new and the drive for faster better graphics cards/monitors/RAM/etc wasn't even in full swing yet.
When did Kespa and BW pro-gaming start to go in full swing and extend beyond a niche fan base in the rest of the world? When Youtube and streaming technologies started going mainstream, and Youtube literally became the Napster of the SC scene, specifically from channels like Jon747 and others. This just happened to coincide around the same time frame when Starcraft: Ghost was being scrapped, the later announcement of Starcraft 2, and the merger of Activision Blizzard.
Were they losing money prior to that time frame? Probably not much if any, they had no way to capitalize on it themselves. But that doesn't mean KESPA, or more precisely the money made by KESPA from the televised matches with advertising money was actually legal back then or now. It's important to realize that KESPA started out in the dark area, then they pulled the fiasco with GOM Averatec-Intel Classic Season3, then the head-to-head rights and lawsuit clash happened, and now KESPA and their affiliates are once again pulling this current fiasco by excluding Blizzard games.
You may love the Korean SC1/WC3 pro-gaming scene, you may hate Bobby Kotick and the ActiBlizzard lawyers, but just remember that they didn't start filing lawsuits against individual pro-gamers or pro-teams, there was no prejudice or hate for any former SC1/WC pro-gamers that entered the SC2 scene in fact they have been overwhelmingly embraced. Blizzard did the right thing and left them alone and went straight for KESPA and the TV contracts/licensing rights.
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On March 07 2011 05:45 Dimagus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:27 TheGlassface wrote:
I know this is 9 pages behind the train but I just want to point out how insane this post is.
They are not a company that is in danger, by any means whatsoever.
They have been consistently more than happy with "losing money" for over 12 years from KESPA.
Also, as a long time blizzard fan I can safely say they have yet to spend money on any development of my favorite games for quite some time.
Again, not to get into it and sorry to be off topic, but you know how it is I'm sure. Making this argument is eerily similar to the music industry prior to Napster (and P2P in general). Both Blizzard and the music industry may be motivated by greed, but to claim that either or both were "more than happy" with their respective situations is outright arrogant. Starcraft 1 / Broodwar was a popular game but the pro-gamer scene was still niche and locally centered on Korea in a time when the cyber and online gaming world were, relatively speaking, The Stone Ages. Go back and play SC1/BW on check out the original battle.net, which had to function for 28.8bps dialup modems on Windows 95/98 computers. PS2 and Xbox didn't even exist yet, Everquest and MMOs were still new and the drive for faster better graphics cards/monitors/RAM/etc wasn't even in full swing yet. When did Kespa and BW pro-gaming start to go in full swing and extend beyond a niche fan base in the rest of the world? When Youtube and streaming technologies started going mainstream, and Youtube literally became the Napster of the SC scene, specifically from channels like Jon747 and others. This just happened to coincide around the same time frame when Starcraft: Ghost was being scrapped, the later announcement of Starcraft 2, and the merger of Activision Blizzard. Were they losing money prior to that time frame? Probably not much if any, they had no way to capitalize on it themselves. But that doesn't mean KESPA, or more precisely the money made by KESPA from the televised matches with advertising money was actually legal back then or now. It's important to realize that KESPA started out in the dark area, then they pulled the fiasco with GOM Averatec-Intel Classic Season3, then the head-to-head rights and lawsuit clash happened, and now KESPA and their affiliates are once again pulling this current fiasco by excluding Blizzard games. You may love the Korean SC1/WC3 pro-gaming scene, you may hate Bobby Kotick and the ActiBlizzard lawyers, but just remember that they didn't start filing lawsuits against individual pro-gamers or pro-teams, there was no prejudice or hate for any former SC1/WC pro-gamers that entered the SC2 scene in fact they have been overwhelmingly embraced. Blizzard did the right thing and left them alone and went straight for KESPA and the TV contracts/licensing rights.
Take away kespa and you take away all that is BW progaming. We all know that blizzard won't fund anything that big since it's not cost efficient. Blizzard is all about the micro transactions since that earns them the biggest buck.
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Still think the kespa vs blizzard dispute is quite childish. Blizzard does have right on their side but Kespa is pretty much the reason that Sc2 even got as hyped up as it did so yeah sad to see this affecting this tournament as well.
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EPT
