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On March 04 2011 16:24 ooni wrote:
End of 2007 Blizzard Merges with Activision
2008 'Blizzard' starts demanding for IP rights, money for stuff
Activision is involved...-> it's about money
Again I ask, after 5+ years of kespa being allowed to run OSL and MSL, why did blizzard all the sudden start asking for money?
They should just leave the Brood War scene alone especially since they never really did anything to promote the scene in korea here in America....
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On March 04 2011 17:14 Refreshe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 16:24 ooni wrote:
End of 2007 Blizzard Merges with Activision
2008 'Blizzard' starts demanding for IP rights, money for stuff
Activision is involved...-> it's about money Again I ask, after 5+ years of kespa being allowed to run OSL and MSL, why did blizzard all the sudden start asking for money? They should just leave the Brood War scene alone especially since they never really did anything to promote the scene in korea here in America....
Back in 2007, KeSPA begun asking for broadcasting fees from OGN and MBC, for a game they had no rights to. Blizzard really disliked that move and they tried to come to an understanding with KeSPA for the next few years, until they finally had enough last year and instead made a deal with GOM for all the broadcasting rights in Korea.
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On March 04 2011 17:21 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 17:14 Refreshe wrote:On March 04 2011 16:24 ooni wrote:
End of 2007 Blizzard Merges with Activision
2008 'Blizzard' starts demanding for IP rights, money for stuff
Activision is involved...-> it's about money Again I ask, after 5+ years of kespa being allowed to run OSL and MSL, why did blizzard all the sudden start asking for money? They should just leave the Brood War scene alone especially since they never really did anything to promote the scene in korea here in America.... Back in 2007, KeSPA begun asking for broadcasting fees from OGN and MBC, for a game they had no rights to. Blizzard really disliked that move and they tried to come to an understanding with KeSPA for the next few years, until they finally had enough last year and instead made a deal with GOM for all the broadcasting rights in Korea.
But its not like they asked blizzard, right? I thought blizzard was just angry because their Avartec-Intel Classic never got going.
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i'm so confused how people don't realize that kespa wants money, not for kespa but for the organization OF kespa.
KESPA: a non profit group of sponsers that run and manage starcraft in korea.
sponsers: people/organizations/corporations that invest in a product and expect to see a return from profits or advertisement.
KESPA makes no money
but the sponsers sure as hell do. in fact since kespa charges for rights and everything it helps reimburse the sponsers allowing them even greater revenue for even less investment. it's all about control and money you can't be so ignorant to not realize that sponsers expect to get something out of their sponsership.
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On March 04 2011 16:06 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 15:07 Gak2 wrote:
I think of it like this:
Would Blizzard rather not have the whole korean bw scene started in the first place? Because I could imagine a scenario that went like this many years ago:
Kespa (for lack of a better representative): "Hey blizzard, we're gonna try and start a big starcraft scene here in korea, you don't mind do you? We're not sure if it's gonna be really successful or not"
Blizzard: "Yeah sure! That would be great! Anything for more publicity"
... fast forward to the present
Blizzard: "Ok.. so now that your thing is successful and making money and stuff... we want a cut of it since you know, it IS our game"
This is kind of a dick move on blizzard's part imo, even if it is within their rights to do so. That is pretty much how it works though. Just look at YouTube, for example. Even stuff created years ago that use licensed music can be pulled off if it violates copyrights, etc.
You're mixing things up. Movies&music suffers from copyright infringement on sites like youtube, because the files are very easy to copy and if the quality is half decent there is absolutely no reason to buy the dvd/mp3. That's why they can argue that they will lose sales because of these sites. Copying from TV is more difficult (in good quality) and they get a bit money as compensation for the usage of their work, plus they need tv-stations as advertisement, because an artist that was hiding in the studio for 2 years is completely of the radar, even for many die hard fans.
Games don't suffer from the same fate. It doesn't matter if a tournament streams games or a guy posts that awesome frag video. You simply don't get the real experience through watching. The only exception might be a single player only game with a very exciting plot with many twists..if you spoil it it might ruin the fun and reason to play it. For most other games it's basically free advertisement. I've bought some games just because I saw them on a stream/tube and thought "wow, looks like fun". Games that I wouldn't have been aware of otherwise..very easy to get big awareness..I'm pretty sure that some companies even 'fake' these videos or pay 'youtube-stars' *sigh* some money to cover their games, because like 100k+ followers will at least watch the first 5 minutes of it just because that guy/girl covers the game.. Companies would be idiots if they don't utilize this free 'viral marketing'.
I'm not concerned for e-sports either. You see all these new games, that get pushed hard with big prizepool tournaments for 2-3 years, if one of them is good enough it will survive and stay big.
Even if big companies don't push a game, just look at half-life. It was a game with huge modding capabilities for longer shelf life..never meant to be big in e-sports and then some guys invented counter strike, just as a fun multiplayer game. People loved it, and because they loved it, it turned into this huge e-sport that's still played today. Fun games and players create e-sports, good balance&fancy features will determine how long it stays alive, but companies would be dumb not to support their game with millions of players, that play it or get introduced to it through tournaments, simply because they all will most likely buy the next big game of that company..
And e-sports 'focused' games won't die either, just look at all the CoDs and Battlefields or RTS that hit the market every year and have big potential, because by that logic all core games would die, since casual/facebook games are the cashcow..but guess what there are still many core games every year, because they have the most loyal followers..
It doesn't really matter how the lawsuit turns out..it's just sad for Korea aside from GSL and WCG they lose more and more attention with each game&league that dies, especially since western e-sports is kicking up big time and if it stays at this rate, then in a few years probably nobody will give a ♥♥♥♥ about Korea or GSL, because their e-sports scene won't matter anymore..
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On March 04 2011 17:28 Refreshe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 17:21 Eury wrote:On March 04 2011 17:14 Refreshe wrote:On March 04 2011 16:24 ooni wrote:
End of 2007 Blizzard Merges with Activision
2008 'Blizzard' starts demanding for IP rights, money for stuff
Activision is involved...-> it's about money Again I ask, after 5+ years of kespa being allowed to run OSL and MSL, why did blizzard all the sudden start asking for money? They should just leave the Brood War scene alone especially since they never really did anything to promote the scene in korea here in America.... Back in 2007, KeSPA begun asking for broadcasting fees from OGN and MBC, for a game they had no rights to. Blizzard really disliked that move and they tried to come to an understanding with KeSPA for the next few years, until they finally had enough last year and instead made a deal with GOM for all the broadcasting rights in Korea. But its not like they asked blizzard, right? I thought blizzard was just angry because their Avartec-Intel Classic never got going.
Blizz angry that kespa sold broadcasting rights in 2007 which is pretty much stealing IP and selling it. But Blizz not so angry at first so try to negotiate for 3 years but no go for kespa, then angry. perhaps avertec intel classic heighten the anger idk. blizz gave rights to gom right before sc2 release and kespa try desperately to reason with blizz but no go. even broke NDA from blizz through all the panic.
MBC refuse to negotiate since no money. OGN complied but not anymore for no reason. grace period expires and lawsuit happens without injunction.
idk but blizz seems very reasonable to me looking back at what happened. gom can probably start a BW league but no players. maybe after the lawsuit if mbc/ogn cannot broadcast, then maybe gom will? bw won't die comon.
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:\ Another event turns to shit. It's kind of sad how most Korean e-sports events literally depend on Blizzard games to be well received. Without it there's just CS or Special Force & other not very interesting games. They depend so much on Blizzard but have issues paying their due. It's only a matter of time before they finally admit it themselves, that or create whole new games that Korea would absolutely love to watch. (fat chance)
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So people are saying Blizzard got angry with Kespa asking money.
Let's now take a step back and look at other professional sports organizations. Like Spanish or English football leagues. They negotiate the TV money, and then distribute it to professional teams.
Now, my question is, KESPA charges money from TV companies and as a non-profit organization, do they distribute this money to pro-teams? Like where does a team get so much money for salaries of their stars? Surely there's TV money?
If that is the case, and I am not sure it is, then why people still defend Blizzard? Blizzard doesn't pay the salary of Flash or Bisu, their teams do. And their teams have to earn somehow, and of course that would involve TV deals.
If I was wrong here, then I will be glad to listen to the facts.
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United States7483 Posts
On March 04 2011 17:14 Refreshe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 16:24 ooni wrote:
End of 2007 Blizzard Merges with Activision
2008 'Blizzard' starts demanding for IP rights, money for stuff
Activision is involved...-> it's about money Again I ask, after 5+ years of kespa being allowed to run OSL and MSL, why did blizzard all the sudden start asking for money? They should just leave the Brood War scene alone especially since they never really did anything to promote the scene in korea here in America....
Because KESPA started demanding money from other companies for the right to broadcast Blizzard games: something only Blizzard should have the right to do. In other words, KESPA was acting as if it owned Starcraft, which Blizzard has the Intellectual Property rights to. KESPA is refusing to recognize Blizzard's claim of IP rights, and Blizzard needs to defend it's property, or what incentive is there to actually create games?
Blizzard actually tried negotiating and coming to terms with KESPA for years before the lawsuit. KESPA refused at every turn. GOMtv on the other hand, asked blizzard directly for SC2 broadcasting rights, and Blizzard gave it to them for $1. They clearly don't care about the money, they only want their property rights respected.
While it looks bad for ESPORTS in Korea right now, a precedent for ignoring a companies IP rights to a game would KILL gaming in general.
So people are saying Blizzard got angry with Kespa asking money.
Let's now take a step back and look at other professional sports organizations. Like Spanish or English football leagues. They negotiate the TV money, and then distribute it to professional teams.
Now, my question is, KESPA charges money from TV companies and as a non-profit organization, do they distribute this money to pro-teams? Like where does a team get so much money for salaries of their stars? Surely there's TV money?
If that is the case, and I am not sure it is, then why people still defend Blizzard? Blizzard doesn't pay the salary of Flash or Bisu, their teams do. And their teams have to earn somehow, and of course that would involve TV deals.
If I was wrong here, then I will be glad to listen to the facts.
"Football" the sport isn't owned or created by a single company. Starcraft, on the other hand, is. Nobody owns the intellectual property rights to football.
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On March 04 2011 17:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
i'm so confused how people don't realize that kespa wants money, not for kespa but for the organization OF kespa.
KESPA: a non profit group of sponsers that run and manage starcraft in korea.
sponsers: people/organizations/corporations that invest in a product and expect to see a return from profits or advertisement.
KESPA makes no money
but the sponsers sure as hell do. in fact since kespa charges for rights and everything it helps reimburse the sponsers allowing them even greater revenue for even less investment. it's all about control and money you can't be so ignorant to not realize that sponsers expect to get something out of their sponsership.
KeSPA is non-profit? Not from what I've read and seen. In fact, there's been a lot of hate on KeSPA due to their insatiable greed before this lawsuit took the headlines instead.
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United States7483 Posts
On March 05 2011 11:57 tyCe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 17:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
i'm so confused how people don't realize that kespa wants money, not for kespa but for the organization OF kespa.
KESPA: a non profit group of sponsers that run and manage starcraft in korea.
sponsers: people/organizations/corporations that invest in a product and expect to see a return from profits or advertisement.
KESPA makes no money
but the sponsers sure as hell do. in fact since kespa charges for rights and everything it helps reimburse the sponsers allowing them even greater revenue for even less investment. it's all about control and money you can't be so ignorant to not realize that sponsers expect to get something out of their sponsership. KeSPA is non-profit? Not from what I've read and seen. In fact, there's been a lot of hate on KeSPA due to their insatiable greed before this lawsuit took the headlines instead.
Technically yes, but non-profit doesn't mean you don't try to earn as much revenue as you can, it simply means you must spend your profits. In other words, if your revenue exceeds your costs, you must increase your costs to match your revenue. Non profit organizations, legally, can be very very greedy.
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Kespa claims starcraft to be public domain? what?
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United States7483 Posts
Doesn't apply for a number of reasons, the main one being that Blizzard made multiple attempts to settle out of court with reasonable offers and KESPA refused each one. In other words, Blizzard did not unreasonably delay filing a charge.
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only CS? That sucks and probably won't have much viewership.
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On March 04 2011 17:28 Refreshe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 17:21 Eury wrote:On March 04 2011 17:14 Refreshe wrote:On March 04 2011 16:24 ooni wrote:
End of 2007 Blizzard Merges with Activision
2008 'Blizzard' starts demanding for IP rights, money for stuff
Activision is involved...-> it's about money Again I ask, after 5+ years of kespa being allowed to run OSL and MSL, why did blizzard all the sudden start asking for money? They should just leave the Brood War scene alone especially since they never really did anything to promote the scene in korea here in America.... Back in 2007, KeSPA begun asking for broadcasting fees from OGN and MBC, for a game they had no rights to. Blizzard really disliked that move and they tried to come to an understanding with KeSPA for the next few years, until they finally had enough last year and instead made a deal with GOM for all the broadcasting rights in Korea. But its not like they asked blizzard, right? I thought blizzard was just angry because their Avartec-Intel Classic never got going.
Did Kespa allow all their players to participate?
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I don't understand how people can claim starcraft is a public domain. This is absolutely insane. Unlike say, soccer, StarCraft is a REGISTERED TRADEMARK, and as such, blizzard is in its right to enforce a payment when its brand is used to earn money, as is in KeSPA's case. I know you love BW, and we can all see how this has been hurting the progaming scene in korea, specially relating to SC2. But all of that doesn't matter, because it IS BLIZZARD'S PROPERTY, and if they want to enforce their rights over starcraft, they can do it. Its actually that simple. This happens everywhere in multiple shapes and forms, I don't see why blizz shouldn't do it. If anything, blizz has let KeSPA freely use their property for far too long, giving space for this feeling of starcraft being a public property to take shape.
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It's finally coming: the end of KeSPA, at least as we've known it for the last years.
Funny how they're trying to damage e-sports as much as they can before they go, just so GOM + Blizz has less "material" to work with after they win in the courts. Very childish attitude.
It's about time, honestly.
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After reading a few threads about all this it sounds like kespa are a bunch of wankers, I hope they fail.
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EPT
