EPTMLG Format Explanation - Page 7
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On February 27 2011 21:30 fxSolo wrote: But Nadal and Federer ARE 32 of the seeded that are given automatic entry into the Grand Slams' 128 man bracket, along with a few other top ranked players. Other athletes have to qualify just to get into the tournament itself. If you draw a parallel to it, just imagine MLG pool play/championship bracket as the that final 128 man Grand Slam roster, and the Open championship the qualification to get into the "Grand Slam," which would be our pool play and championship bracket. Nadal and Federer don't have to qualify for every Grand Slam they enter, they're given a spot automatically. It's not because they are celebrities, it's because through their system they've proven their top caliber and deserve the spots. With a clearly defined system deciding the top 16 seed for these events, it rewards performance the same as tennis rewards top ranked players with automatic berths. Which is exactly what I said. It's perfectly acceptable to seed these players in a tournament. What is not acceptable is automatically placing them into the round of 16 and semi finals when there are a vast amount of competitors looking to make their name and fame. You drew an incorrect parallel to try to support your point. They earned their SEEDS. They did not get auto-placed into the semi-finals or ro16 like these tournaments are doing. The seeding in legitimate competitions reward players that have shown they can compete and beat good players already. What it does not do is automatically assume these players will win every game they play for the rest of their lives into the round of 16/semi-finals. And even in your parallel, Tennis uses lots, lots of qualifiers and "wild cards" to allow players that have shown they can compete with the best entry into these events. Players that already have a ranking can get into the grand slams, and players that have none can qualify through a qualifier. But also a wild card can be given to a player that has shown they can compete with the best, etc. In no way do seeds = automatically placeing competitors further in the bracket. What it does is give them an easier bracket, and as a matter of fact, now that I think about it and that you bring it up, and that these tournaments bring it up, Roger Federer, Nadal, etc etc. in fact do a lot of times bash players that can be considered "noobs" in the first round or two. They work their way through the draw, they aren't ordained further in the draw by the gods. | ||
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PetRockSteve
United States70 Posts
On February 28 2011 04:20 Agh wrote: probably been said or mentioned already in the thread, but is the plan to filter the 4 pools in a straight like linear type fashion? where all of the a placements are at the top, b next, etc? seems kind of dumb since the same matches will occur. They will be mixing it up. The players who finished 2-5 in a group will be in different parts of the bracket. | ||
motbob
United States12546 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On February 28 2011 04:59 avilo wrote: But Nadal and Federer ARE 32 of the seeded that are given automatic entry into the Grand Slams' 128 man bracket, along with a few other top ranked players. Other athletes have to qualify just to get into the tournament itself. If you draw a parallel to it, just imagine MLG pool play/championship bracket as the that final 128 man Grand Slam roster, and the Open championship the qualification to get into the "Grand Slam," which would be our pool play and championship bracket. Nadal and Federer don't have to qualify for every Grand Slam they enter, they're given a spot automatically. It's not because they are celebrities, it's because through their system they've proven their top caliber and deserve the spots. With a clearly defined system deciding the top 16 seed for these events, it rewards performance the same as tennis rewards top ranked players with automatic berths. Which is exactly what I said. It's perfectly acceptable to seed these players in a tournament. What is not acceptable is automatically placing them into the round of 16 and semi finals when there are a vast amount of competitors looking to make their name and fame. You drew an incorrect parallel to try to support your point. They earned their SEEDS. They did not get auto-placed into the semi-finals or ro16 like these tournaments are doing. The seeding in legitimate competitions reward players that have shown they can compete and beat good players already. What it does not do is automatically assume these players will win every game they play for the rest of their lives into the round of 16/semi-finals. And even in your parallel, Tennis uses lots, lots of qualifiers and "wild cards" to allow players that have shown they can compete with the best entry into these events. Players that already have a ranking can get into the grand slams, and players that have none can qualify through a qualifier. But also a wild card can be given to a player that has shown they can compete with the best, etc. In no way do seeds = automatically placeing competitors further in the bracket. What it does is give them an easier bracket, and as a matter of fact, now that I think about it and that you bring it up, and that these tournaments bring it up, Roger Federer, Nadal, etc etc. in fact do a lot of times bash players that can be considered "noobs" in the first round or two. They work their way through the draw, they aren't ordained further in the draw by the gods.[/QUOTE] | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On February 28 2011 04:59 avilo wrote: Which is exactly what I said. It's perfectly acceptable to seed these players in a tournament. What is not acceptable is automatically placing them into the round of 16 and semi finals when there are a vast amount of competitors looking to make their name and fame. You drew an incorrect parallel to try to support your point. They earned their SEEDS. They did not get auto-placed into the semi-finals or ro16 like these tournaments are doing. The seeding in legitimate competitions reward players that have shown they can compete and beat good players already. What it does not do is automatically assume these players will win every game they play for the rest of their lives into the round of 16/semi-finals. And even in your parallel, Tennis uses lots, lots of qualifiers and "wild cards" to allow players that have shown they can compete with the best entry into these events. Players that already have a ranking can get into the grand slams, and players that have none can qualify through a qualifier. But also a wild card can be given to a player that has shown they can compete with the best, etc. In no way do seeds = automatically placeing competitors further in the bracket. What it does is give them an easier bracket, and as a matter of fact, now that I think about it and that you bring it up, and that these tournaments bring it up, Roger Federer, Nadal, etc etc. in fact do a lot of times bash players that can be considered "noobs" in the first round or two. They work their way through the draw, they aren't ordained further in the draw by the gods. Uh did you read Motbob's response to you? He sort of covered this, the players who get seeded get seeded because they kicked ass last year at MLG, thus they earned it. | ||
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Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On February 28 2011 05:39 motbob wrote: OK, I fixed the images so Group A players don't all play each other. Just one more thing that needs fixing and that's the winner's bracket. Group A 1st plays Group D 1st and Group C 1st plays Group B 1st. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On February 28 2011 05:41 0neder wrote: Which is exactly what I said. It's perfectly acceptable to seed these players in a tournament. What is not acceptable is automatically placing them into the round of 16 and semi finals when there are a vast amount of competitors looking to make their name and fame. You drew an incorrect parallel to try to support your point. They earned their SEEDS. They did not get auto-placed into the semi-finals or ro16 like these tournaments are doing. The seeding in legitimate competitions reward players that have shown they can compete and beat good players already. What it does not do is automatically assume these players will win every game they play for the rest of their lives into the round of 16/semi-finals. And even in your parallel, Tennis uses lots, lots of qualifiers and "wild cards" to allow players that have shown they can compete with the best entry into these events. Players that already have a ranking can get into the grand slams, and players that have none can qualify through a qualifier. But also a wild card can be given to a player that has shown they can compete with the best, etc. In no way do seeds = automatically placeing competitors further in the bracket. What it does is give them an easier bracket, and as a matter of fact, now that I think about it and that you bring it up, and that these tournaments bring it up, Roger Federer, Nadal, etc etc. in fact do a lot of times bash players that can be considered "noobs" in the first round or two. They work their way through the draw, they aren't ordained further in the draw by the gods. Your problem with this format is beside the point because MLG still needs to fit this event within 3 days and ahem well players dont show up on time for day 1 ever. So they cannot go for a format that takes excess amounts of time. So in order to still fit the event within 3 days you have the current seeding of layers into the ro16 etc etc. The new format is designed to show you top level games on the stream from the start of the event until the end. Is it harder for players who are in the open bracket? Yes, the only way to fix that is to run the open bracket on a different weekend altogether or online and that kills the entire point of it being a live event. MLG is working within a rather strict time frame so allowances had to be made. That being said the new format is much much better than the previous one. | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On February 28 2011 04:59 avilo wrote: Which is exactly what I said. It's perfectly acceptable to seed these players in a tournament. What is not acceptable is automatically placing them into the round of 16 and semi finals when there are a vast amount of competitors looking to make their name and fame. You drew an incorrect parallel to try to support your point. They earned their SEEDS. They did not get auto-placed into the semi-finals or ro16 like these tournaments are doing. The seeding in legitimate competitions reward players that have shown they can compete and beat good players already. What it does not do is automatically assume these players will win every game they play for the rest of their lives into the round of 16/semi-finals. And even in your parallel, Tennis uses lots, lots of qualifiers and "wild cards" to allow players that have shown they can compete with the best entry into these events. Players that already have a ranking can get into the grand slams, and players that have none can qualify through a qualifier. But also a wild card can be given to a player that has shown they can compete with the best, etc. In no way do seeds = automatically placeing competitors further in the bracket. What it does is give them an easier bracket, and as a matter of fact, now that I think about it and that you bring it up, and that these tournaments bring it up, Roger Federer, Nadal, etc etc. in fact do a lot of times bash players that can be considered "noobs" in the first round or two. They work their way through the draw, they aren't ordained further in the draw by the gods. Compared to the OSL, MSL and GSL, MLG's format is very kind to unseeded players. Read this: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/OSL#Tournament_Format That's the best SC league in the history of the world and it has a ton of seeding past a ton of rounds for its seeded players. Some of the best players have been unable to advance from its open tournament (which isn't even truly open to everyone -- there is yet another layer of qualification via progamer licensing). It can be really difficult to penetrate but it has worked great for years. | ||
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UberThing
Great Britain410 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
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envee
United States27 Posts
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
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odder
United States405 Posts
On February 28 2011 06:03 zev318 wrote: would love to see the hour by hour match schedule for this. if it's as jam packed as it seems to be, how would they deal with something as guaranteed as bnet going down or the internets dying? Cause u know it will. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/16#event_33_schedule | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On February 28 2011 05:48 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Compared to the OSL, MSL and GSL, MLG's format is very kind to unseeded players. Read this: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/OSL#Tournament_Format Come on, that's still not an argument for why it's good. Next MLG you need to lose 5 Bo3 to be eliminated, iNcontrol can only lose 2 (unless he doesn't lose any in the open bracket). I think that disparity is way too big. | ||
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Midj
Canada253 Posts
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Hectic
Australia159 Posts
it will probably be even longer... | ||
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Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On February 28 2011 05:48 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Compared to the OSL, MSL and GSL, MLG's format is very kind to unseeded players. Read this: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/OSL#Tournament_Format That's the best SC league in the history of the world and it has a ton of seeding past a ton of rounds for its seeded players. Some of the best players have been unable to advance from its open tournament (which isn't even truly open to everyone -- there is yet another layer of qualification via progamer licensing). It can be really difficult to penetrate but it has worked great for years. No doubt that's it difficult but there comes a time when EVERYONE is placed on the same footing to the top seeds. In all of those tournaments I don't see where a seed is a guaranteed placement of position that the other non-seeds can't equally accomplish. In MLG only the non-seeds can finish 32nd in the final stage, not even those in pool play can finish that low, they are guaranteed minimum 24th. In the OSL once people reach the group stage EVERYONE is on the same footing and they move forward. You don't have the top 4 seeds going directly to the semi-finals like in MLG. Can you tell me where this same footing even occurs in the championship bracket?(The four that make it into pool play isn't everyone on the same footing) Because to my eyes it never exists. | ||
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