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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On April 03 2011 11:09 leo23 wrote:Someone please help me understand! In the open loser's bracket ( http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-dallas-starcraft2-open.html#) there are 8 final matches. What I would like to know is how do they decide on the 5th to 16th place in order to go to the championship bracket. I assumed the winner of each match (8 people) would go on and that would leave 4 available spot and 8 remaining losers. How do they sort this out???
There are actually two missing columns. The winners of Round 8 play each other, and then play the losers of the final winners' bracket match.
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I really don't like this format. It really favors those initial 16 pool players and then REALLY favors the top 4 seeds. It's also not really that great from a spectators perspective. We've had to watch the same handful of people over and over again. There are so many great games going on and it would be cool if they would cast some of the great up and coming players.
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On April 03 2011 12:35 theBOOCH wrote:
I really don't like this format. It really favors those initial 16 pool players and then REALLY favors the top 4 seeds. It's also not really that great from a spectators perspective. We've had to watch the same handful of people over and over again. There are so many great games going on and it would be cool if they would cast some of the great up and coming players.
I don't see how the top 4 are so heavily favored. The top 16 are all proven top levels players from past MLG events. These top 4 won their group out of these top players. Are you saying they didn't earn their spot in the top 4? It's still just a double elimination format; it rewards you if you win. So why shouldn't they be rewarded for winning over those who are losing?
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OMG what a mess :/ Why make such a weird and complicated format ? It really confuses ppl and make it really hard to follow casually. Strange decision in any way you can think of it. Not a good thing for Esport imho.
Ppl want to see GGs, not spend 30 min @ MLG site trying to understand the tournament format.
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On April 03 2011 14:52 ChApFoU wrote:
OMG what a mess :/ Why make such a weird and complicated format ? It really confuses ppl and make it really hard to follow casually. Strange decision in any way you can think of it. Not a good thing for Esport imho.
Ppl want to see GGs, not spend 30 min @ MLG site trying to understand the tournament format.
agreed
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Edit: I didn't read the thread thoroughly enough, found the answer to my question by better searching
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Very helpful. Thanks a ton, motbob :D
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I have a question about seeding for the next tournament. If someone happened to be in the top 16, even if he is not as good as he used to be, he gets at least top 24. So then he gets more points, possibly even enough to stay in the top 16. So wouldn't it be quite hard for someone to get out of the top 16, no matter how badly he plays, if he started at like 12th?
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This really did help explain alot of things, I initially thought that the people at the bottom of the pools would be eliminated straight away. I was worried for the fates of the liquid players, now I dont feel as bad
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MLG had Championship Winner's Bracket round 1 set as KiWiKaKi (A) vs NaNiwa (D) and SelecT (B) vs iNcontroL (C) for Dallas, instead of the OP's A vs B, C vs D. Is that a change in the rulebook?
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On April 03 2011 11:12 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2011 11:09 leo23 wrote:Someone please help me understand! In the open loser's bracket ( http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-dallas-starcraft2-open.html#) there are 8 final matches. What I would like to know is how do they decide on the 5th to 16th place in order to go to the championship bracket. I assumed the winner of each match (8 people) would go on and that would leave 4 available spot and 8 remaining losers. How do they sort this out??? There are actually two missing columns. The winners of Round 8 play each other, and then play the losers of the final winners' bracket match.
Thank you! They have this so messed up! I found out the bolded part in the losers championship bracket (http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-dallas-starcraft2-champ.html#).
Thank you again motbob for helping me understand the tournament.
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The format is really ugly now that we are in the tourney.
Theorycrafting it some month ago was fine, I thought that perhaps the format was fine, but now, with this format being live, it's one of the baddest tourney format possible imo.
- when players play, spectators don't know why they play
- as we only see (in theory, because we havn't seen anything xD) pool games, we never get to see an important match (no win or die match)
- some players will need only 4 games to be in ro8....some other will need 12+ bo3 (well, we knewht already)
- we only see the same people play all weekend ><
This format was stupid (but understandable) on paper, but now, this format in practice is garbage.
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On April 03 2011 16:48 Primadog wrote:
MLG had Championship Winner's Bracket round 1 set as KiWiKaKi (A) vs NaNiwa (D) and SelecT (B) vs iNcontroL (C) for Dallas, instead of the OP's A vs B, C vs D. Is that a change in the rulebook?
It's played by seeds so the highest overall seed plays the lowest overall seed and the two middle seeds play.
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There was a lot of discussion on MLG format in the LR threads so I took some time to look at how to fix it.
Generally, I like the MLG format as a spectator because top players are playing other top players all weekend (or they will be after more events fix the seeds) and yet open bracket players still have a chance to win the tournament. However, I think the advantage seeded players get is too large. So I made a modified bracket that I thought was a bit better. A comparison of the two formats follows: (Formats in Spoilers)
Current MLG Format:
Group Winners: Guaranteed Top 6
Group 2nd: Guaranteed Top 12
Group 3rd: Guaranteed Top 16
Group 4th: Guaranteed Top 20
Group 5th: Guaranteed Top 24
Top 4 OB: Guaranteed Top 24
OWR6 Losers: Guaranteed Top 28
Eight from OLB: Guaranteed Top 32
Suggested MLG Format:
Group Winners: Guaranteed Top 12
Group 2nd: Guaranteed Top 12
Group 3rd: Guaranteed Top 24
Group 4th: Guaranteed Top 24
Group 5th: Guaranteed Top 32
Top 4 OB: Guaranteed Top 32
OWR6 Losers: Guaranteed Top 32
Eight from OLB: Guaranteed Top 32
Requires 4 more sets to be played than Current Format (WR1 games)
2 less sets in the longest path to victory.
1 more set in the shortest path to victory.
Current Format:+ Show Spoiler +
Modified Format:+ Show Spoiler +
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I must say this is the best format i have ever seen. Really lots and lots of good games :D
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On April 04 2011 00:29 Chilling5pr33 wrote:
but how did the players earned the places in the Pool initially?
Of the 20 places in the pools, 16 were seeded from last years MLG results. The final 4 spots were the 4 remaining Winner's Bracket contenders from the Open Tournament (the Open Tournament Bracket ends when there are 4 Winner's Bracket and 12 Loser's Bracket players remaining; the last 12 Loser's Brackets end up being the 21st-32nd spots in the Championship Bracket).
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if there were no streaming / lag issues, I think this format would have been pretty good
I think the idea behind the format was for being able to provide many high profile low risk (since there's no way to be eliminated) pool matches. there could have been many good match ups casted from pool play, but streaming / lag issues put a huge damper on that.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
UPDATE for MLG Columbus: click here for updated diagram
There are a couple differences from before. Note that Koreans are now seeded into Pool Play, as described in this thread. Also, note that this fact "bumps out" four qualification spots from the open bracket. At Dallas, the four players who lost in the final round of the Winners' Open Bracket, as well as the eight players who made it to the top eight in the Losers' Open Bracket, advanced to the championship bracket. At Columbus, the top eight in the Loser's Open Bracket will play each other, leaving only four players to advance.
The final, obvious change is that the Championship Bracket changes slightly to accommodate the 6th place player in the pools.
If these changes were confusing, simply compare the two diagrams. Here is the Dallas diagram and here is the Columbus diagram.
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Wow, thanks for the diagram! I was absolutely confused with the format but now I understand!
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/elIjP.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dIXzA.png)
