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On February 27 2011 02:13 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:07 Salv wrote:
As a 2500 Masters Protoss whose MMR matches me against ~3300 Terrans, I am very upset with the amulet change. If you suck at EMP, then yes, storm is imbalanced, but good Terrans make attacking with HT very, very difficult. Having to charge up your HT energy is a huge, huge nerf to Protoss. You can argue, well you just have colossus, but colossus are not effective late game - they take too long to keep making them and replenishing your army. I can only hope they never, ever implement this. Colossus arent effective late game??? lol all these changes I think are fairly reasonable, it buffs protoss early game by making stim timing much later and make it so you dont have to be 5x better than your opponent to beat them if they have storm + amulet up. Although, since they did this, I am suprised they arent making emp an upgrade. That would seem to me a reasonable way to balance the situation out.
They're effective as a unit, but once a Terran has enough vikings to simply one-shot them, and they take so long to rebuild, it's difficult to continue making colossi. Switching to HT, or adding in HT is necessary if a game goes long. However EMP is a huge, huge problem with HT, it makes attacking with HT extremely difficult. If you don't think so, you just don't play Protoss or have yet to play a good Terran.
I am fairly confident that the Terrans here bitching are either just happy that it will be that much easier now to beat a Protoss, or that they are simply bad players with bad control and don't know how to effectively deal with HT. No Protoss will make HT now if you have to wait so long. They will be good to have defensively perhaps, but you would never attempt to attack with them because you cannot afford to them EMPed and be next-to useless. At least defensively they can store up some energy and it's easy to defensively storm than it is to do on the offense.
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On February 27 2011 02:07 Salv wrote:
As a 2500 Masters Protoss whose MMR matches me against ~3300 Terrans, I am very upset with the amulet change. If you suck at EMP, then yes, storm is imbalanced, but good Terrans make attacking with HT very, very difficult. Having to charge up your HT energy is a huge, huge nerf to Protoss. You can argue, well you just have colossus, but colossus are not effective late game - they take too long to keep making them and replenishing your army. I can only hope they never, ever implement this.
As a 3200 points Master Terran, who plays against 3700 points protoss, I say that you wrote an utter bullshit. Colossus not effective late game ? Seriously...
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ye everyone swing your epeen around how much rating you got which automatically nullifies any argument of someone below that level
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I don't even play Protoss but that Amulet change has gotta suck for the P players out there.
At the very least it'd be nice if they increased your Templar's movement speed. At least then they'd keep up with your army and not get picked off while they're waddling around for almost a minute waiting for the mana to cast a single storm before becoming fodder.
But... that's just me.
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On February 27 2011 02:23 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:07 Salv wrote:
As a 2500 Masters Protoss whose MMR matches me against ~3300 Terrans, I am very upset with the amulet change. If you suck at EMP, then yes, storm is imbalanced, but good Terrans make attacking with HT very, very difficult. Having to charge up your HT energy is a huge, huge nerf to Protoss. You can argue, well you just have colossus, but colossus are not effective late game - they take too long to keep making them and replenishing your army. I can only hope they never, ever implement this. As a 3200 points Master Terran, who plays against 3700 points protoss, I say that you wrote an utter bullshit. Colossus not effective late game ? Seriously...
against a decent terran? not really.
Colossus just gives P the ability to tech to hts safely and may be get a 3rd.
but it makes you way more immobile, and you have to be very careful not to lose a single colossus.
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On February 27 2011 02:19 mishimaBeef wrote:
More ninja patching!
TERRAN
Marauder
- New ability unlocked with factory tech
- Marauder can target zerg structure in order to rush towards it and "stomp on a bitch" for massive damage (random between 1-3000)
- Cooldown: 60 sec.
- Range: 12
- Note: Spawning pools require 3 marauders to collectively "stomp on a bitch" otherwise there is no effect.
Everyones favourite the marauder. They should give it an AOE on the concussive and make concussive 5minerals/5gas with a 3 second build time.
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Good changes!
The theme of this patch seems to be nerfing lower-skill, easily spammable spells like stim, storm, and insta-effect fungal growth.
Fungal growth overall gets a nice buff though. How often do battles get decided after 4 seconds of engaging anyway? Very rarely if never. Doubling DPS will wreak havoc on MMM.
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On February 27 2011 02:23 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:07 Salv wrote:
As a 2500 Masters Protoss whose MMR matches me against ~3300 Terrans, I am very upset with the amulet change. If you suck at EMP, then yes, storm is imbalanced, but good Terrans make attacking with HT very, very difficult. Having to charge up your HT energy is a huge, huge nerf to Protoss. You can argue, well you just have colossus, but colossus are not effective late game - they take too long to keep making them and replenishing your army. I can only hope they never, ever implement this. As a 3200 points Master Terran, who plays against 3700 points protoss, I say that you wrote an utter bullshit. Colossus not effective late game ? Seriously...
Rofl, don't you love these kind of posts?
"well I am a 5000 Grandmaster Random, therefore my argument negate yours"
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On February 27 2011 02:27 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:19 mishimaBeef wrote:
More ninja patching!
TERRAN
Marauder
- New ability unlocked with factory tech
- Marauder can target zerg structure in order to rush towards it and "stomp on a bitch" for massive damage (random between 1-3000)
- Cooldown: 60 sec.
- Range: 12
- Note: Spawning pools require 3 marauders to collectively "stomp on a bitch" otherwise there is no effect. Everyones favourite the marauder. They should give it an AOE on the concussive and make concussive 5minerals/5gas with a 3 second build time.
thats not even funny, try harder
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On February 27 2011 02:23 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:07 Salv wrote:
As a 2500 Masters Protoss whose MMR matches me against ~3300 Terrans, I am very upset with the amulet change. If you suck at EMP, then yes, storm is imbalanced, but good Terrans make attacking with HT very, very difficult. Having to charge up your HT energy is a huge, huge nerf to Protoss. You can argue, well you just have colossus, but colossus are not effective late game - they take too long to keep making them and replenishing your army. I can only hope they never, ever implement this. As a 3200 points Master Terran, who plays against 3700 points protoss, I say that you wrote an utter bullshit. Colossus not effective late game ? Seriously...
Read the second post I made to clarify. You cannot simply go colossi the entire game and win that way against a good Terran if the game goes long, you have to use HT. Colossi take a long time to build, if your entire army dies, the Terran is at the advantage because they can remake their army quickly, and you need four-five colossi for them to be effective. Vikings in large numbers kill colossi far too quickly for you to effectively go only colossi - that's the point.
The point therefore is that a Protoss needs HT, and that the upgrade is necessary. You can barely attack with HT as it is PvT because a good Terran will EMP, which means you have to overmake HT in order to still have enough to storm, which means you're eating up a lot of gas, which means you need to make mostly zealots, which means your main army is mostly kite-able, which means your surviving HT have to chase an army that is kiting your main army and try to storm on top of them - it's not ideal. Being able to replace HT quickly and have them effective right now is necessary to a Protoss.
If they remove the upgrade, there's going to be very little reason to try to offensively use HT, it's going to bring their efficiency way down. Every game will just be the Protoss making a lot of colossi and trying to win with that - that's a problem for the game. You seriously disagree?
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On February 27 2011 02:23 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:07 Salv wrote:
As a 2500 Masters Protoss whose MMR matches me against ~3300 Terrans, I am very upset with the amulet change. If you suck at EMP, then yes, storm is imbalanced, but good Terrans make attacking with HT very, very difficult. Having to charge up your HT energy is a huge, huge nerf to Protoss. You can argue, well you just have colossus, but colossus are not effective late game - they take too long to keep making them and replenishing your army. I can only hope they never, ever implement this. As a 3200 points Master Terran, who plays against 3700 points protoss, I say that you wrote an utter bullshit. Colossus not effective late game ? Seriously...
I think he's talking about continuing games with only Colossi. No switching to HTs.
On February 27 2011 02:13 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:07 Salv wrote:
As a 2500 Masters Protoss whose MMR matches me against ~3300 Terrans, I am very upset with the amulet change. If you suck at EMP, then yes, storm is imbalanced, but good Terrans make attacking with HT very, very difficult. Having to charge up your HT energy is a huge, huge nerf to Protoss. You can argue, well you just have colossus, but colossus are not effective late game - they take too long to keep making them and replenishing your army. I can only hope they never, ever implement this. Colossus arent effective late game??? lol all these changes I think are fairly reasonable, it buffs protoss early game by making stim timing much later and make it so you dont have to be 5x better than your opponent to beat them if they have storm + amulet up. Although, since they did this, I am suprised they arent making emp an upgrade. That would seem to me a reasonable way to balance the situation out.
Which again leads me to think this is a buff that gives HTs 75 mana without the need for an upgrade.
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i like that the fungal change creates more opportunity for the better player to win (landing fungals vs dodging them), but is it really necessary to do it for the weakest race?
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What, no void ray changes? I call shennanigans!
I really don't like the infestor missile thing, nor the stun duration decrease. The damage increase is nice but not sure about the trade off. I'd test it before commenting but, you know, no EU PTR, but it feels like it'd change the unit and it's role rather a lot (and yay getting used to handling it again). The health thing seems.. kind of negligible.
Regarding the other balance changes.. dunno. I guess BCs are now as fast as carriers? And the longer it takes them Terrans to get bunkers up the better. Don't know about stim and the amulet, I guess I can't complain but. Overall it still feels.. haphazard, guess we'll see what ends up in there.
The recommendation system sounds ok, on paper. Now where's our replay sharing? And how about em maps? 
Edit: Oh I see new maps are mentioned in another thread. I'll.. go take my underwhelment (it's a word.. now) over those there then.
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Whatever mod gave me a warning... I wasn't balance whining.. i was actually trying to lighten the mood with a joke... "stomp on a bitch"? haha guys come on its a game lets not forget that in the midst of things
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I think that if they are going to remove the Khaydarin Amulet from High Templars, then they should remove the energy upgrades for all casters.
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Rather than saying protoss, terran or zerg got nerffed, the game itself got heavily neffed
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I think the FG growth change is nice for ZvZ, as it makes Infestors a bit more interesting to use. Harder to land FG, but more effective when it does land. Plus it'll make mutas more interesting to use in the long run.
However, ZvT.. is another discussion, I think it'll hurt Zerg in the long run since the whole uses for FG is to stop marines. The damage, while nice, isn't necessarily the primary use behind it. Also it makes stopping drops a little harder. But who knows, we'll see how it plays out.
ZvP.. it'll actually probably be a little more useful since it'll do more damage to armored units, but I don't think Infestors will see that much more use than it does right now in this MU.
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On February 27 2011 02:33 mishimaBeef wrote:
Whatever mod gave me a warning... I wasn't balance whining.. i was actually trying to lighten the mood with a joke... "stomp on a bitch"? haha guys come on its a game lets not forget that in the midst of things
They understand that. You just need to make it a bit funnier.
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On February 27 2011 02:38 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
I think the FG growth change is nice for ZvZ, as it makes Infestors a bit more interesting to use. Harder to land FG, but more effective when it does land. Plus it'll make mutas more interesting to use in the long run.
However, ZvT.. is another discussion, I think it'll hurt Zerg in the long run since the whole uses for FG is to stop marines. The damage, while nice, isn't necessarily the primary use behind it. Also it makes stopping drops a little harder. But who knows, we'll see how it plays out.
ZvP.. it'll actually probably be a little more useful since it'll do more damage to armored units, but I don't think Infestors will see that much more use than it does right now in this MU.
@ ZvT
What happens when T pre-emptively spreads his bio? You need something more than just Infestors... forcing T to spread is good in 2 ways - Z melee units can attack more T units and Infestors save energy for later.
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Most pros seem to be really happy about the balance changes. And if they are happy I'm happy as well. That's all I got to say.
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EPT
