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Cops
United Kingdom172 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:29 AimlessAmoeba wrote: Can we please give the maps a month or so to at least get some mileage before we start throwing down all the hate? You wanted new maps, you got them. Chill! Agree. | ||
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FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
My point is that people screamed about how much Shakuras sucked when it first was introduced, and now they mourn its loss. If you actually go and play the maps, and practice your game, instead of theorycrafting about the maps on the forum or QQing because you've lost both games you've played on them so far, you'd be a better player and wouldn't have to fill the forums up with so much drivel. And not just you, but everyone bitching. | ||
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TarQeS
United Kingdom90 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:31 ineversmile wrote: I don't think that Shakuras was a fully-conceived idea for the map pool. The types of pushes that could happen between horizontally-adjacent bases made for a lot of the same type of game: one guy breaking down the rocks and pushing with a deathball at some timing, and the game degrading to whether the defender could hold the push or not. I'm not against timing pushes in a RTS game, but there was seriously something repetitive about horizontal spawn games in--more than just tvz and tvp match-ups. It got really boring, both as a player and as a member of the GSL audience. What do you expect, though? If the spawning positions on a map grant you this awesome backdoor right into your opponent's main base, why wouldn't you just push it with leapfrog tanks every single time? Maybe the new maps aren't perfect, but Shakuras definitely had some gaping flaws of its own. It's easy to take that for granted. Couldnt they of just made it a 2 player map spawning in opposite corners? | ||
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sevia
United States954 Posts
Problems of Lost Temple: + Show Spoiler + If one side controls one of the center watch towers, there's no alternate ground-based route to half of the map, meaning it's too easy for the game to become a stalemate with each side taking half of the map. Small islands in the corners were problematic in that they were difficult to assault as each of the three races. We noticed it's possible to hold out at one or both of these islands and drag on a game for longer than needed. It was also problematic in that in some matchups, these islands were just free expansions that almost never get attacked, which is not what we wanted in an expansion. The choke point by the natural expansions were too small; it was possible to block them off easily using only a few buildings. So basically, according to Blizzard: macro games are bad, islands are imbalanced, and fast expanding should be impossible. (4)Shakuras Plateau + Show Spoiler + This map we decided to remove for a different reason. There isn't a huge problem with this map, but we felt there aren't enough interesting features of this map. The natural expansion is easy to take and defend; there are only two possible attack paths only one of which is generally used, and main bases aren't easy to harass. For a change, we wanted to replace this relatively plain map with something new. Yeah, they genuinely have no idea what they're doing. | ||
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Cain0
United Kingdom608 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:29 AimlessAmoeba wrote: Can we please give the maps a month or so to at least get some mileage before we start throwing down all the hate? You wanted new maps, you got them. Chill! Erm, have you played on them yet? Id rather hang myself than play on these ridiculous pieces of art for a month. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
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freetgy
1720 Posts
but keeping DQ in seems odd, one of the worst maps ever kept in...? | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:34 sevia wrote: So basically, according to Blizzard: macro games are bad, islands are imbalanced, and fast expanding should be impossible. Yeah, they genuinely have no idea what they're doing. You know..... I love they fail to mention the cliff issue on LT. And what the hell are they smoking about Shakuras? | ||
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koveras
163 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:35 Cain0 wrote: Erm, have you played on them yet? Id rather hang myself than play on these ridiculous pieces of art for a month. Please do! Im going to give these maps a shot and wait a little before I cast my judgement on them. | ||
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AimlessAmoeba
Canada704 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:35 Cain0 wrote: Erm, have you played on them yet? Id rather hang myself than play on these ridiculous pieces of art for a month. Really. THAT is what you would rather do? The maps are fine. Sure, it's a little terrifying running blind ATM and these maps aren't perfect but they're still better than Steppes or JB were. Maybe you'll feel a little better after some progames are played on them and you can copy their strats. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
 I think we need a little more time on these new maps. Some will probably have to go (the desert one for example), but they are still better than what we had before. | ||
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Almisael
Austria235 Posts
On February 27 2011 01:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Dont like any of the new maps except the fixed Temple. They all have ridiculous chokes and stupid positional imbalances - its like, if you want to encourage straight up terran play, 1 rax CC absolutely HAS to be viable for the map to have a healthy variety in openings... Xelnaga is the only map defying this rule I can think of. And 1 rax CC is only viable if you can 3 rax wall your nat or baneling bust gets you every time. Removing Shakuras might be the single most mindboggling decision ever made in this games history. as someone posted earlier there's a spawning position imbalance in the new temple map. the distance between your main and your natural on the 3:00 starting position is longer than on the 9:00 starting position. the air distance is 33% longer which means it's harder to defend 2 pronged harass on this position (at least that's what i think). travel time from main to exe is about 1.5-2 seconds longer (scv speed). can't test this more accurately... | ||
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Cain0
United Kingdom608 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:39 koveras wrote: Please do! Im going to give these maps a shot and wait a little before I cast my judgement on them. Its a figure of speech you fucking dick. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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schimmetje
Netherlands1104 Posts
Why DQ is still in there though.. ? I guess they want to make sure there's something left to veto? | ||
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Gliche
United States811 Posts
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P0ckets
United States430 Posts
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Grebliv
Iceland800 Posts
4) Backwater Gulch Backwater Gulch has a familiar main to first expansion layout. Early game play on this map should feel familiar and there probably aren't too many early game threats or difficulties in terms of gimmicky strategies you need to worry about. The second expansion, however, features a high ground area that is accessible by two ramps, meaning it can be easily harassed. The center area has two watch towers as well as two high yield expansions that will be difficult to maintain, and the key to victory in some games could come down to how long you hold one or both of these center expansions. ??????????????????????????'' ???????????????????????????? ? ???????????????????????' If you're used to 1 o'clock original lost temple perhaps. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/82_Lost%20Temple.jpg) with added rocks obviously I'd have bought the bold part if they directed the ramp towards the expansion making it, like perhaps possible to take early game. ![[image loading]](http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8540/gulch.png) This would literally take like 5 minutes to fix in the editor, maybe 15 for the good texture work. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:35 Cain0 wrote: Erm, have you played on them yet? Id rather hang myself than play on these ridiculous pieces of art for a month. then don't and shut up, seriously... give the maps a chance and play on them for a week and then if you still dont like them go complaint on the bnet forums..... | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
yes you are bound to stay here for a long time with this kind of posts | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:32 FrostOtter wrote: My point is that people screamed about how much Shakuras sucked when it first was introduced, and now they mourn its loss. If you actually go and play the maps, and practice your game, instead of theorycrafting about the maps on the forum or QQing because you've lost both games you've played on them so far, you'd be a better player and wouldn't have to fill the forums up with so much drivel. And not just you, but everyone bitching. People were complaining about Shakuras until they figured out you can spawn vertical positions. That was the only issue people saw on the map besides the backdoor rocks, which people still dont like. | ||
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