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On July 29 2011 04:57 Mendelfist wrote:Here is something to ponder upon. My complete match history for season 2 is here: www.lysator.liu.se/~john/oldhistory.htmlWhen season 2 ended I had 121 adjusted points in platinum (AP column). When season 3 started I was placed in gold. Unless the league offsets were changed again just now I have a hard time understanding this. Looking at my opponents league though it's more understandable, but 121 should be well within platinum. There is something going on here. Note: This is not a complaint. I like trying to figure out how the ladder works.
Continued story: After three more games (one loss) I am again promoted to platinum. I think I'll regard my visit to gold as a mystery that we'll never get the answer to, and just forget that it happened. But reading the bnet forums this temporary demotion thing seems quite common.
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On July 30 2011 03:48 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 04:57 Mendelfist wrote:Here is something to ponder upon. My complete match history for season 2 is here: www.lysator.liu.se/~john/oldhistory.htmlWhen season 2 ended I had 121 adjusted points in platinum (AP column). When season 3 started I was placed in gold. Unless the league offsets were changed again just now I have a hard time understanding this. Looking at my opponents league though it's more understandable, but 121 should be well within platinum. There is something going on here. Note: This is not a complaint. I like trying to figure out how the ladder works. Continued story: After three more games (one loss) I am again promoted to platinum. I think I'll regard my visit to gold as a mystery that we'll never get the answer to, and just forget that it happened. But reading the bnet forums this temporary demotion thing seems quite common.
How many games have you played this season? If it's 5 or 4, it may be some strange bug mixing placement methods. I don't have the patience or desire to surf the forums. Is it demoting people into the same specific leagues, or just down 1 momentarily?
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On July 30 2011 05:48 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 03:48 Mendelfist wrote:On July 29 2011 04:57 Mendelfist wrote:Here is something to ponder upon. My complete match history for season 2 is here: www.lysator.liu.se/~john/oldhistory.htmlWhen season 2 ended I had 121 adjusted points in platinum (AP column). When season 3 started I was placed in gold. Unless the league offsets were changed again just now I have a hard time understanding this. Looking at my opponents league though it's more understandable, but 121 should be well within platinum. There is something going on here. Note: This is not a complaint. I like trying to figure out how the ladder works. Continued story: After three more games (one loss) I am again promoted to platinum. I think I'll regard my visit to gold as a mystery that we'll never get the answer to, and just forget that it happened. But reading the bnet forums this temporary demotion thing seems quite common. How many games have you played this season? If it's 5 or 4, it may be some strange bug mixing placement methods. I don't have the patience or desire to surf the forums. Is it demoting people into the same specific leagues, or just down 1 momentarily?
When I was promoted again I had played a total of 4 games this season, including the placement match:
1: Placement match (win): placed into gold
2: win
3: loss
4: win: Promoted to platinum
It think it's down 1 momentarily, not into a specific league.
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That's very interesting Mendel. I guess we'll have to wait for more detailed info from Blizz (or people with ties to Blizz).
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Is there a way to know where the cut will roundly be for GM ?
As it's MMR based, do points really matter ?
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On August 01 2011 19:38 mr_tolkien wrote:
Is there a way to know where the cut will roundly be for GM ?
As it's MMR based, do points really matter ?
Using adjusted points, we can take an educated guess at who gets GM, but we might only get ~100 right. Although, we might get ~190 right instead. It depends on how active those belonging in the top 200 are.
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that helped a lot ty 
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United States12274 Posts
Okay added the new bonus pool accrual rate info. If you're below Master league you're accruing at 58% of the original rate. Keep in mind that bonus points don't translate to skill at all, they're a decay mechanism.
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When I was looking at my profile I noticed that I can't find Season 1 stats anywhere. Also, when looking at the ladder for Season 2, I also noticed that unspent bonus pool is not shown. I would think that it'll be good to show them so that progress over seasons can be mapped.
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United States12274 Posts
On August 02 2011 15:19 Azzur wrote:
When I was looking at my profile I noticed that I can't find Season 1 stats anywhere. Also, when looking at the ladder for Season 2, I also noticed that unspent bonus pool is not shown. I would think that it'll be good to show them so that progress over seasons can be mapped.
Yeah you can't view Season 1 stats for some reason, only Last Season which is a shame. As for the unspent bonus pool thing, I'm seeing mixed results. For my 1v1 I know I had a ton of bonus pool, well over 1000, but it shows 0 in-game and on the website (actually now it shows 1, must have just ticked over which is weird). For my 2v2 with Vanick I know we used up all our bonus pool, and that shows 0 in-game and on the site. I had a 2v2 with Vykromond where I don't think we ever played beyond initial placement (meaning its unspent bonus should be around 700 or so), and that team has 58 on the website and 87 in-game. I had a 4v4 with Jathin and Cube and Vanick and that didn't spend any bonus pool beyond initial placement either (so I should have like 350), and that shows 29 on the website and 87 in-game. If anything, the 4v4 and 2v2 should not match, but moreover, 87 is equal to the current max bonus pool for 1v1 Master league players. Seriously broken.
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On August 02 2011 08:33 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Okay added the new bonus pool accrual rate info. If you're below Master league you're accruing at 58% of the original rate. Keep in mind that bonus points don't translate to skill at all, they're a decay mechanism.
What do you think is the reason for this? Is it Blizzard's way of saying 'we think that GM / Master players probably play more often than lower leagues. It's reasonable to expect them to use up 90 points / week, but if we give 90 points / week to people below Master a lot of people will have a hard time using up their bonus pool'?
Edit: I REALLY hate this change. If it wasn't confusing enough to compare yourself to other players in the same league / different leagues than yourself, now it is going to be all the more complicated. Now for a Diamond player to compare himself to Master he has to find out the total bonus pool for both leagues. Before this change all he had to do was add up his own unspent bonus pool to his points, his opponent's unspent bonus pool to his opponent's points, and violla. IMO this added confusion is too great to be worth it simply for varying the amount of bonus pool each league players are likely to be able to handle using up.
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On August 02 2011 16:27 Not_That wrote:
Edit: I REALLY hate this change. If it wasn't confusing enough to compare yourself to other players in the same league / different leagues than yourself, now it is going to be all the more complicated. Now for a Diamond player to compare himself to Master he has to find out the total bonus pool for both leagues. Due to the different, invisible Diamond tiers a diamond player cannot compare himself to a Master player anyway.
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On July 30 2011 15:18 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 05:48 aksfjh wrote:On July 30 2011 03:48 Mendelfist wrote:On July 29 2011 04:57 Mendelfist wrote:Here is something to ponder upon. My complete match history for season 2 is here: www.lysator.liu.se/~john/oldhistory.htmlWhen season 2 ended I had 121 adjusted points in platinum (AP column). When season 3 started I was placed in gold. Unless the league offsets were changed again just now I have a hard time understanding this. Looking at my opponents league though it's more understandable, but 121 should be well within platinum. There is something going on here. Note: This is not a complaint. I like trying to figure out how the ladder works. Continued story: After three more games (one loss) I am again promoted to platinum. I think I'll regard my visit to gold as a mystery that we'll never get the answer to, and just forget that it happened. But reading the bnet forums this temporary demotion thing seems quite common. How many games have you played this season? If it's 5 or 4, it may be some strange bug mixing placement methods. I don't have the patience or desire to surf the forums. Is it demoting people into the same specific leagues, or just down 1 momentarily? When I was promoted again I had played a total of 4 games this season, including the placement match: 1: Placement match (win): placed into gold 2: win 3: loss 4: win: Promoted to platinum It think it's down 1 momentarily, not into a specific league.
Similar story to me. I have 2 accounts, both Master.
Account 1:
placement -> win-> demoted to Diamond
played -> win-> promoted to Master
Account 2:
placement-> win-> kept in Masters
No idea what that happened to my first account. It's not like I was a loss streak either.
But the worst that I have seen with own eyes is a Grand Master on Season 2 on Europe server being demoted to DIAMOND.
His name is LanTan
http://sc2ranks.com/ru/25892/LanTan/season/2 (check season 3)
My diamond friend played him on ladder and got roflstomped. We checked his previous league and gasped.
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United States12274 Posts
On August 02 2011 16:27 Not_That wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 08:33 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Okay added the new bonus pool accrual rate info. If you're below Master league you're accruing at 58% of the original rate. Keep in mind that bonus points don't translate to skill at all, they're a decay mechanism. What do you think is the reason for this? Is it Blizzard's way of saying 'we think that GM / Master players probably play more often than lower leagues. It's reasonable to expect them to use up 90 points / week, but if we give 90 points / week to people below Master a lot of people will have a hard time using up their bonus pool'? Edit: I REALLY hate this change. If it wasn't confusing enough to compare yourself to other players in the same league / different leagues than yourself, now it is going to be all the more complicated. Now for a Diamond player to compare himself to Master he has to find out the total bonus pool for both leagues. Before this change all he had to do was add up his own unspent bonus pool to his points, his opponent's unspent bonus pool to his opponent's points, and violla. IMO this added confusion is too great to be worth it simply for varying the amount of bonus pool each league players are likely to be able to handle using up.
Yes it absolutely has to be a result of the activity levels at lower leagues. Grandmaster and Master league players play a lot more often: they run streams, coaching, they practice for tournaments on ladder. I would guess that lower leagues tend to play more casually or may have a fear of competition, which would translate to fewer games played. Only Blizzard has the real activity data and they're the ones who adjusted the bonus pool accrual rate to what it is now, probably exactly enough to offset the lower frequency of games played.
In the end there's not a lot of useful information that is either gained or lost as a result of this change. If you're a Diamond player comparing yourself to a Master player it's still going to be just as difficult (due to division tiers as mentioned above) and most of the time you're still going to run into "top 10 Master" players in each division because they're playing more often.
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OK, I have one new question
First, after placement I was placed in D, which was no suprise for me as I ended with about -200 adjusted in last season. Now Im coming back and Im expecting myself to get promoted where I belong soon, but what will be my points?
Since Im not getting same bonus pts. now (right?), then my new points will be 0,58*original + 73 which is big big change compared to previous season (perhaps not right now, but during season there is huge difference between being promoted with 1073 or 653 pts) or is it being normalized?
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United States12274 Posts
On August 03 2011 02:31 Sek-Kuar wrote:OK, I have one new question First, after placement I was placed in D, which was no suprise for me as I ended with about -200 adjusted in last season. Now Im coming back and Im expecting myself to get promoted where I belong soon, but what will be my points? Since Im not getting same bonus pts. now (right?), then my new points will be 0,58*original + 73 which is big big change compared to previous season (perhaps not right now, but during season there is huge difference between being promoted with 1073 or 653 pts) or is it being normalized?
According to one person who got promoted to Master, you suddenly gain access to all that Master league bonus pool. That is, if you spent your 52 points this week and ended with 0 bonus pool, then got promoted to Master, your new points would be 73+52 and you would have 38 bonus pool remaining.
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On August 03 2011 02:44 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 02:31 Sek-Kuar wrote:OK, I have one new question First, after placement I was placed in D, which was no suprise for me as I ended with about -200 adjusted in last season. Now Im coming back and Im expecting myself to get promoted where I belong soon, but what will be my points? Since Im not getting same bonus pts. now (right?), then my new points will be 0,58*original + 73 which is big big change compared to previous season (perhaps not right now, but during season there is huge difference between being promoted with 1073 or 653 pts) or is it being normalized? According to one person who got promoted to Master, you suddenly gain access to all that Master league bonus pool. That is, if you spent your 52 points this week and ended with 0 bonus pool, then got promoted to Master, your new points would be 73+52 and you would have 38 bonus pool remaining.
OK now I can confirm it, just got promoted with 123 pts and gained new 36 pts for bonus pool. Everything seems ok as right now current value of BP is 86.
EDIT: BTW I think you will have to edit that part about division tiers and pts offset from masters right? So now it is for tier 1 = 150 pts under master minus BP difference. Or something like that, havent think about it much ^^
Simply, last season highest tier D with 1,3k pts was like low master with 1,15k... but this season after couple weeks 800 pts D can be equal to 1,2k master........ Its really weird, isnt it? However its not going to affect adjusted, at least that should be mentioned.
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How many games does it take to change your MMR? Or perhaps a better question is how many games does battle.net sample from to attain your MMR?
Say I play 250 games with a 50% win ration. I then go on a 20 game win streak. Does it then say you have a 53% win ratio based of 270 games, or does it say, you have a 75% win ratio based off the last 40 games?
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EPT
