• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:19
CEST 17:19
KST 00:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course10Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !8Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
ASL Tickets to Live Event Finals? [ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2071 users

IMBALANCED! - Introduction - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 81 Next
If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content.

You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical.

Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims.
Woony
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany6657 Posts
February 03 2011 01:35 GMT
#101
I love how most people aren't actually discussing the content in the video and instead discussing GSL statistics and shit like that, that doesn't even really have anything to do with the actual content of the video.
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
February 03 2011 01:35 GMT
#102
On February 03 2011 10:31 Twistacles wrote:
First thoughts:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


After listening to this for a while... I still think so


Yeah, but just because people are too fucking stupid to think for like one moment about it.

They kept it all pretty neutral and unbiased, there really is no problem with it...
Kevmeister @ Dota2
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
February 03 2011 01:35 GMT
#103
On February 03 2011 10:32 KevinIX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 10:25 iEchoic wrote:
On to the actual content of the show, how can you mention colossus in PvT without mentioning pheonix? Any trouble with colossus is the pheonix/colossus combo, not just colossus. Rarely do good players go pure colossus and just let all their colossus die to vikings anymore.

It's like mentioning marine balance without mentioning medivacs. Kind of a worthless discussion.

On February 03 2011 10:24 Ravomat wrote:
On February 03 2011 10:17 iEchoic wrote:
All this does is cause bronze-plat players to blame their losses on imbalance and shit up every thread on here. Why give them ammunition?


You didnt watch the video. They said they only discuss balance on pro-level since you obviously have you have tons of stuff to improve when being in bronze league.

I liked the vid. They explained precisely why they think stuff is imbalanced.

Put your hate aside and watch the video.


Obviously they said that, but who do you think their audience is? They're not making this video for top players to watch.


I've been watching Trump's stream lately, and he has a very solid Thor build that works quite well against collosi. I'm no pro, so I won't talk about balance, but I've been working it into my TvP and having success. I think Thor could be the future of TvP. 250mm crush small numbers of immortals, and late game, a banshee transition into marine/thor/banshee composition helps deal with heavy immortal composition.


I'm not even saying colossus/pheonix is unbeatable, I'm just wondering why they would have a 5 second discussion on colossus in TvP and don't even bring up the entire thing that makes colossus powerful, the pheonix/colossus composition.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
February 03 2011 01:35 GMT
#104
On February 03 2011 10:34 Kraznaya wrote:
This sounds like a really, really, really, terrible idea. Idra of course only notices weakness with his own race (anyone remember making carriers being a good skill toi have?) and anyone only needs to listen to Artosis for about five minutes when he's casting to notice how biased he can be, especially with zerg. This is just a bad echo chamber which will be embraced by shitty zerg players who think they've never lost a game in their life due to them being outclassed. Why not bring in some additional perspectives like Jinro, or HuK? I know TL and EG/MYM aren't on the best of terms but a Zerg echo chamber is the last thing we need. I mean, we already have the teamliquid forums if we wanted that.


Ugh, last post of page

User was warned for this post
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
February 03 2011 01:36 GMT
#105
if they had a pro-T person on the show I would consider watching it, but right now it's...well, an imbalanced show
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
February 03 2011 01:36 GMT
#106
holy shit when i clicked on the thread title on the left side of team liquid I excepted newbie rant #100,000 but a video from idra/artosis!!! WOW! My day just got better.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
February 03 2011 01:36 GMT
#107
I can't wait for episode 2 to see what else they discuss as this one was just about the colossi. I can see them going into more depth into other mu's in the 2nd show shall be interesting. I do think people should watch it before knocking it ^^.
When I think of something else, something will go here
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
February 03 2011 01:36 GMT
#108
On February 03 2011 10:35 iEchoic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 10:32 KevinIX wrote:
On February 03 2011 10:25 iEchoic wrote:
On to the actual content of the show, how can you mention colossus in PvT without mentioning pheonix? Any trouble with colossus is the pheonix/colossus combo, not just colossus. Rarely do good players go pure colossus and just let all their colossus die to vikings anymore.

It's like mentioning marine balance without mentioning medivacs. Kind of a worthless discussion.

On February 03 2011 10:24 Ravomat wrote:
On February 03 2011 10:17 iEchoic wrote:
All this does is cause bronze-plat players to blame their losses on imbalance and shit up every thread on here. Why give them ammunition?


You didnt watch the video. They said they only discuss balance on pro-level since you obviously have you have tons of stuff to improve when being in bronze league.

I liked the vid. They explained precisely why they think stuff is imbalanced.

Put your hate aside and watch the video.


Obviously they said that, but who do you think their audience is? They're not making this video for top players to watch.


I've been watching Trump's stream lately, and he has a very solid Thor build that works quite well against collosi. I'm no pro, so I won't talk about balance, but I've been working it into my TvP and having success. I think Thor could be the future of TvP. 250mm crush small numbers of immortals, and late game, a banshee transition into marine/thor/banshee composition helps deal with heavy immortal composition.


I'm not even saying colossus/pheonix is unbeatable, I'm just wondering why they would have a 5 second discussion on colossus in TvP and don't even bring up the entire thing that makes colossus powerful, the pheonix/colossus composition.


Pretty legit point, I think every Terran was thinking it lol.
Sup
SilverPotato
Profile Joined July 2010
United States560 Posts
February 03 2011 01:36 GMT
#109
I love how much Terran influence is in this show :D

This can only mean good things.
"The ability to learn faster than your competitors may be the only sustainable competitive advantage." ~Arie de Geus
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
February 03 2011 01:36 GMT
#110
On February 03 2011 10:35 iEchoic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 10:32 KevinIX wrote:
On February 03 2011 10:25 iEchoic wrote:
On to the actual content of the show, how can you mention colossus in PvT without mentioning pheonix? Any trouble with colossus is the pheonix/colossus combo, not just colossus. Rarely do good players go pure colossus and just let all their colossus die to vikings anymore.

It's like mentioning marine balance without mentioning medivacs. Kind of a worthless discussion.

On February 03 2011 10:24 Ravomat wrote:
On February 03 2011 10:17 iEchoic wrote:
All this does is cause bronze-plat players to blame their losses on imbalance and shit up every thread on here. Why give them ammunition?


You didnt watch the video. They said they only discuss balance on pro-level since you obviously have you have tons of stuff to improve when being in bronze league.

I liked the vid. They explained precisely why they think stuff is imbalanced.

Put your hate aside and watch the video.


Obviously they said that, but who do you think their audience is? They're not making this video for top players to watch.


I've been watching Trump's stream lately, and he has a very solid Thor build that works quite well against collosi. I'm no pro, so I won't talk about balance, but I've been working it into my TvP and having success. I think Thor could be the future of TvP. 250mm crush small numbers of immortals, and late game, a banshee transition into marine/thor/banshee composition helps deal with heavy immortal composition.


I'm not even saying colossus/pheonix is unbeatable, I'm just wondering why they would have a 5 second discussion on colossus in TvP and don't even bring up the entire thing that makes colossus powerful, the pheonix/colossus composition.


Well, they play Zerg, they wouldn't even know where to begin with TvP discussion, so I'm glad they kept away from it.

(Yes I know Artosis dabbles with Protoss but he hasn't done anything of note with it, so who cares)
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
Angra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2652 Posts
February 03 2011 01:37 GMT
#111
A video series about imbalance with two of the most biased well known people in the community as the hosts. Cool.
hadoken5
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada519 Posts
February 03 2011 01:37 GMT
#112
I think Blizzard is done balancing WoL, they will be back in HotS
Scrimpton
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom465 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 01:40:06
February 03 2011 01:38 GMT
#113
On February 03 2011 10:13 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
players get flamed for balance complaints because they all whine subjectively about the race they play themselves, therefor it's hard to take it serious. maybe if artosis and idra started saying zerg is overpowered that would be cool.



seems like a bad post to make.
People are subjective, but other than top level Players with long arching careers in starcraft, who can discuss balance?
No race/issue should be untouchable in the arena of discussion, and im sure if zerg were "op" we'd see a lot more about it.

Why would it be cool for IdrA/Artosis to lie about Zerg being overpowered anyway?.. it's as if somebody else just randomly found out your password and shitposted.

Especially considering the CONTENT of the video was presented in a largely unbiased intelligent manner.
Protoss is the only race with "pro" in it
Mr. Nefarious
Profile Joined December 2010
United States515 Posts
February 03 2011 01:39 GMT
#114
I. Love. This. Show. Absolutely fantastic with two of my favorite foreigners.
저그 화이팅
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
February 03 2011 01:40 GMT
#115
On February 03 2011 10:35 FliedLice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 10:31 Twistacles wrote:
First thoughts:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


After listening to this for a while... I still think so


Yeah, but just because people are too fucking stupid to think for like one moment about it.

They kept it all pretty neutral and unbiased, there really is no problem with it...

They weren't necessarily biased, but it would be a lot better with the other races having an input.

There would be more discussion because rather than the whole thing being like "have you ever stopped that? nope? me either.", there would be the other races there to say things like "now hold on, I lose all the time to this and this", etc.


Still, I'm looking forward to seeing where this show is headed.
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 01:42:35
February 03 2011 01:40 GMT
#116
On February 03 2011 10:28 Chibalicious wrote:
What a bunch of garbage ... i mean 75% of the replies to this video.

Why have noone replied to the actual content of the video? All you guys sees and hears is LOL IDRA SAID Z UP HE SUCH WHINER LOOK AT STATISTICS LOL GSL WON ZERG LOL. Why, if you are going to disagree or attack him, why is it that you are not doing something constructive, like maybe WHY he would be wrong, maybe bring some better arguments to the table.

The content of the video is actually informative and insightful with good reasoning and examples behind their points, and people can't take the time to respond with anything but "zergs are such whiners" ;/
sad

looking forward to any future episodes
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
KevinIX
Profile Joined October 2009
United States2472 Posts
February 03 2011 01:41 GMT
#117
On February 03 2011 10:36 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 10:35 iEchoic wrote:
On February 03 2011 10:32 KevinIX wrote:
On February 03 2011 10:25 iEchoic wrote:
On to the actual content of the show, how can you mention colossus in PvT without mentioning pheonix? Any trouble with colossus is the pheonix/colossus combo, not just colossus. Rarely do good players go pure colossus and just let all their colossus die to vikings anymore.

It's like mentioning marine balance without mentioning medivacs. Kind of a worthless discussion.

On February 03 2011 10:24 Ravomat wrote:
On February 03 2011 10:17 iEchoic wrote:
All this does is cause bronze-plat players to blame their losses on imbalance and shit up every thread on here. Why give them ammunition?


You didnt watch the video. They said they only discuss balance on pro-level since you obviously have you have tons of stuff to improve when being in bronze league.

I liked the vid. They explained precisely why they think stuff is imbalanced.

Put your hate aside and watch the video.


Obviously they said that, but who do you think their audience is? They're not making this video for top players to watch.


I've been watching Trump's stream lately, and he has a very solid Thor build that works quite well against collosi. I'm no pro, so I won't talk about balance, but I've been working it into my TvP and having success. I think Thor could be the future of TvP. 250mm crush small numbers of immortals, and late game, a banshee transition into marine/thor/banshee composition helps deal with heavy immortal composition.


I'm not even saying colossus/pheonix is unbeatable, I'm just wondering why they would have a 5 second discussion on colossus in TvP and don't even bring up the entire thing that makes colossus powerful, the pheonix/colossus composition.


Pretty legit point, I think every Terran was thinking it lol.


Well, to be fair, Idra is a Zerg, and he probably is not familiar with the TvP matchup.
Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Seraphic
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3849 Posts
February 03 2011 01:41 GMT
#118
I have to post on how stupid all of this is. two guys with the most biased opinions out there.

Protoss has nothing aside from the Colossus, Protoss Air units are just paper planes half of the time. You take out Colossus and Protoss basically have no go to unit in SC2, maybe Immortals. Void Rays get countered easy with early scout, Carriers now have limited use, Mothership is pointless. Maybe Blink Stalkers, that is about it, but they die without good control.

User was warned for this post
Natus Vincere Fan | Team Secret Fan | SK Telecom T1 Fan | Lanaya the Templar Assassin <3
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 01:42:52
February 03 2011 01:41 GMT
#119
I think theres a mistake in the reasoning overall. Blizzard has explained numerous times that they don't balance through imbalance in matchups, but rather specific unit compositions and builds. So for example the reaper nerf, was given not due to TvZ imbalance, but to diversify 2v2 as reapers were used exclusively too much. Same as the marine scv all in, it wasn't that the all in was too powerful, its because in the high level, people used the build exclusively.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Cha1R
Profile Joined November 2010
United States221 Posts
February 03 2011 01:41 GMT
#120
<3 artosis and idra. thanks for this guys!
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#86
WardiTV1143
Rex130
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
MaxPax 193
ProTech132
Rex 130
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7951
Bisu 3277
Jaedong 1509
EffOrt 1027
Horang2 980
Mini 534
Larva 409
Hyuk 313
ZerO 289
ggaemo 269
[ Show more ]
actioN 267
Snow 225
Soulkey 203
Rush 175
Mind 165
firebathero 144
Mong 105
Sea.KH 71
Sharp 55
Hyun 50
soO 48
Barracks 48
HiyA 39
Aegong 37
Pusan 35
Killer 33
Movie 22
IntoTheRainbow 17
Hm[arnc] 16
sorry 16
Rock 12
Terrorterran 10
SilentControl 10
Bale 8
Dota 2
Gorgc5221
syndereN336
XcaliburYe176
monkeys_forever162
NeuroSwarm82
Counter-Strike
fl0m3639
byalli347
olofmeister17
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK9
Other Games
B2W.Neo1079
hiko925
Liquid`RaSZi719
Happy404
Lowko387
Hui .369
KnowMe149
ArmadaUGS137
crisheroes130
FrodaN96
elazer90
Livibee68
Trikslyr26
ZerO(Twitch)19
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL46430
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 1014
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP85
• LUISG 15
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 39
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis5958
• TFBlade1046
Other Games
• WagamamaTV428
• Shiphtur74
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
41m
OSC
8h 41m
CranKy Ducklings
18h 41m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 41m
Light vs Flash
PiGosaur Cup
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL
5 days
GSL
5 days
Cure vs TBD
TBD vs Maru
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W7
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.