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On April 18 2011 13:23 Skillz_Man wrote:
JTV does 0.04 cents per commercial - which is $0.0004 per view on his stream. Therefore if you have 2500 viewers you make $1 per commercial. If you're like Huk and put a commercial after every game you'll average maybe $4 dollars an hour. His streaming schedule is usually 4-6 hours a day. Which is $500-$600 dollars per month.
That's about what Huk makes as his viewer counts average at that, which I mean isn't bad considering he doesn't pay for living expenses, ofcourse Im not certain what kind of share, if any tl.net takes from that.
Do you have a source for this (Inside proof, word of mouth)? I've heard Destiny say before he makes anywhere from $150-$300 / day which doesn't make any sense according to your figures. How does JTV paying $0.04 / commercial have any relevance if the revenue is calculated purely by viewer count?
Is the payout the same for every streamer or do high volume streamers see more % from the ad revenue?
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On April 18 2011 13:23 Skillz_Man wrote:
JTV does 0.04 cents per commercial - which is $0.0004 per view on his stream. Therefore if you have 2500 viewers you make $1 per commercial. If you're like Huk and put a commercial after every game you'll average maybe $4 dollars an hour. His streaming schedule is usually 4-6 hours a day. Which is $500-$600 dollars per month.
That's about what Huk makes as his viewer counts average at that, which I mean isn't bad considering he doesn't pay for living expenses, ofcourse Im not certain what kind of share, if any tl.net takes from that.
I'm pretty sure its $2 every 1,000 viewers.
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On April 18 2011 13:39 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 13:23 Skillz_Man wrote:
JTV does 0.04 cents per commercial - which is $0.0004 per view on his stream. Therefore if you have 2500 viewers you make $1 per commercial. If you're like Huk and put a commercial after every game you'll average maybe $4 dollars an hour. His streaming schedule is usually 4-6 hours a day. Which is $500-$600 dollars per month.
That's about what Huk makes as his viewer counts average at that, which I mean isn't bad considering he doesn't pay for living expenses, ofcourse Im not certain what kind of share, if any tl.net takes from that. Do you have a source for this (Inside proof, word of mouth)? I've heard Destiny say before he makes anywhere from $150-$300 / day which doesn't make any sense according to your figures. How does JTV paying $0.04 / commercial have any relevance if the revenue is calculated purely by viewer count? Is the payout the same for every streamer or do high volume streamers see more % from the ad revenue?
They pay 0.04 cents per viewer per commercial is what I ment.
And $2/1000 viewers seems far too high. That's a rate of 0.2 cents an ad. Anyhow, I just assumed that's what every streamer got since I asked two close friends a while back. Maybe if you partner up with JTV they give you better rates.
And as for Destiny, 150-300 from just streaming? Or does that include his lessons, because that seems insanely high.
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On April 18 2011 13:52 Skillz_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 13:39 jester- wrote:On April 18 2011 13:23 Skillz_Man wrote:
JTV does 0.04 cents per commercial - which is $0.0004 per view on his stream. Therefore if you have 2500 viewers you make $1 per commercial. If you're like Huk and put a commercial after every game you'll average maybe $4 dollars an hour. His streaming schedule is usually 4-6 hours a day. Which is $500-$600 dollars per month.
That's about what Huk makes as his viewer counts average at that, which I mean isn't bad considering he doesn't pay for living expenses, ofcourse Im not certain what kind of share, if any tl.net takes from that. Do you have a source for this (Inside proof, word of mouth)? I've heard Destiny say before he makes anywhere from $150-$300 / day which doesn't make any sense according to your figures. How does JTV paying $0.04 / commercial have any relevance if the revenue is calculated purely by viewer count? Is the payout the same for every streamer or do high volume streamers see more % from the ad revenue? They pay 0.04 cents per viewer per commercial is what I ment. And $2/1000 viewers seems far too high. That's a rate of 0.2 cents an ad. Anyhow, I just assumed that's what every streamer got since I asked two close friends a while back. Maybe if you partner up with JTV they give you better rates. And as for Destiny, 150-300 from just streaming? Or does that include his lessons, because that seems insanely high.
Just from streaming apparently. His living wage is his streaming income. From what I've seen everywhere, it's around $2/1000 viewers. Hard to say though as none of us know for sure and I bet it's against a NDA for streamers to come in and tell us.
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I believe Destiny has mentioned on his stream that he gets about 0.2 cents ($0.002) per viewer per commercial and that he averages about $4 per ad. Assuming 3 ads per hour, 12$ per hour + coaching (he streams his coaching sessions which means those hours are worth $40-50 per hour - coach fee + ad fee), it is probably not unreasonable to think that he makes about $1200-$1500 per month on streaming.
(Typically, when doing hourly to annual conversions, you take your hourly rate x 2,000 (40 hour weeks x 50 weeks) / 12 to figure out your monthly income - in this case, $12 x 2,000 = 24,000 / 12 = $1200, and then another $300 for coaching seems a reasonable estimate).
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If gamers have a great personality they can make money from streaming as well. I think the amount of money made is all based on personality. Either you have a great personality and get lots of fans or you are really good and win tournaments.
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On February 02 2011 08:01 Stevelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers Pretty much this. With the amount of money Youtube gives out for moderate traffic videos, casters like Husky could easily make up to $100k/yr. Not a bad deal considering that's about 5-10 hours of work per week.
NPR featured Day[9] in an article about YouTube celebs that make >$100k a yr from YouTube. they didn't specifically say HE does...but it was at least 1/2-way implied.
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I'd like to chime in and really tell you guys to NOT be jealous if they do make good money. I know 99% of them don't but let's just wish Incontrol made 6 figures. Let's wish Huk or any pro gamer did because that would be a huge step in e-sports in general.
In CS pros had that salary because some rich guy came along and paid them for it. That's awesome but that's not how we want it done. We need the whole scene to balance out. I do believe day9 and husky easily make over 50k a year..100k? maybe getting close. Husky and HD really pioneered the youtube casting so props to them. Don't hate, they brought such a huge audience to the scene. There's so many people that watch SC and don't even own the game! That's awesome IMO.
Coaching is def where the money is at but maybe one day we can see pro gamers making 50k a year to bring us entertainment that we crave. If sports people can make millions, why can't one day a pro gamer at least make 50k?
I don't see it happening in our generation but hopefully in the next and the big names of right now can pave the way for them.
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On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers
How did caster make money?
other than those youtube guys get google ad and TGS.
other than those few Day9/ tastosis ( DJwheat has a job i believe)
I have no fucking idea how caster making money.
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I'm guessing he meant that casters get money from just casting at events. Many events would ask a specific caster if they are available and they would pay and fly them out (usually expense paid).
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According to that article, Day[9] is one of many Youtube streamers that pull in $100k+ JUST from Youtube.
Add in money from Justin.tv, Blip.tv, Casting events, merchandise endorsing/advertising, etc etc...If the $100k figure from NPR is correct, I'd be surprised if he wasn't pulling in close to double that yearly...if the initial numbers are correct.
Though, that's not a bash on Day[9], I say if it's true, awesome for him! Anyone who says otherwise is just jealous.
Though, I would say, casters who ARE pulling in 6-figure salaries should probably be kicking at least a LITTLE back to the pros who's videos and reps they're using in non-event activities (Dailies, analysis shows, etc), just to be fair.
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On April 19 2011 04:35 Alaz wrote:
I'd like to chime in and really tell you guys to NOT be jealous if they do make good money. I know 99% of them don't but let's just wish Incontrol made 6 figures. Let's wish Huk or any pro gamer did because that would be a huge step in e-sports in general.
In CS pros had that salary because some rich guy came along and paid them for it. That's awesome but that's not how we want it done. We need the whole scene to balance out. I do believe day9 and husky easily make over 50k a year..100k? maybe getting close. Husky and HD really pioneered the youtube casting so props to them. Don't hate, they brought such a huge audience to the scene. There's so many people that watch SC and don't even own the game! That's awesome IMO.
Coaching is def where the money is at but maybe one day we can see pro gamers making 50k a year to bring us entertainment that we crave. If sports people can make millions, why can't one day a pro gamer at least make 50k?
I don't see it happening in our generation but hopefully in the next and the big names of right now can pave the way for them.
I'm not sure people are jealous; I think a lot of people don't believe that NA progamers are skillful enough to be worthy of a high salary in the first place, considering none could compete with Koreans in BW to begin with and the same looks possibly to be true in the long run in SC2 as well. If they're not the highest skilled around do we have to believe they should be paid a lot just to 'support esports'? It's a small niche after all not everyone can get paid massively.
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On April 19 2011 06:06 infinity2k9 wrote:
I'm not sure people are jealous; I think a lot of people don't believe that NA progamers are skillful enough to be worthy of a high salary in the first place, considering none could compete with Koreans in BW to begin with and the same looks possibly to be true in the long run in SC2 as well. If they're not the highest skilled around do we have to believe they should be paid a lot just to 'support esports'? It's a small niche after all not everyone can get paid massively.
I agree with this post. It's easy to spot the difference in the level of play of a FPVOD of a SCBW pro vs a SC2 pro. Yes, the former has been out for over a decade, but the mentality behind has been lost in SC2.
Also, supporting esports has got to go. It's ridiculous how people use that argument basically in every thread. So many games are played at a high level, and for which there are many tournaments every week. Right now, Starcraft 2 is no different in that respect. Yes, injecting money into your favorite game's tournaments will make it seem bigger, but it's artificial. In the long run it will die out, unless more people get interested. It's not your job to get people interested.
How long do you think someone can make revenue off of ads on JTV? Unless they perform at an incredibly high level, viewers will eventually move on. And if they do get among the best, they will certainly not stream anymore (see SCBW pro replays) because of their more refined builds and plays. Making $50k a year is good money when you're young, but for a single year it's insignificant in someone's life.
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On April 19 2011 06:06 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 04:35 Alaz wrote:
I'd like to chime in and really tell you guys to NOT be jealous if they do make good money. I know 99% of them don't but let's just wish Incontrol made 6 figures. Let's wish Huk or any pro gamer did because that would be a huge step in e-sports in general.
In CS pros had that salary because some rich guy came along and paid them for it. That's awesome but that's not how we want it done. We need the whole scene to balance out. I do believe day9 and husky easily make over 50k a year..100k? maybe getting close. Husky and HD really pioneered the youtube casting so props to them. Don't hate, they brought such a huge audience to the scene. There's so many people that watch SC and don't even own the game! That's awesome IMO.
Coaching is def where the money is at but maybe one day we can see pro gamers making 50k a year to bring us entertainment that we crave. If sports people can make millions, why can't one day a pro gamer at least make 50k?
I don't see it happening in our generation but hopefully in the next and the big names of right now can pave the way for them. I'm not sure people are jealous; I think a lot of people don't believe that NA progamers are skillful enough to be worthy of a high salary in the first place, considering none could compete with Koreans in BW to begin with and the same looks possibly to be true in the long run in SC2 as well. If they're not the highest skilled around do we have to believe they should be paid a lot just to 'support esports'? It's a small niche after all not everyone can get paid massively.
Koreans are free to come over here if they think the money and opportunities would be better. Guess what? I get paid more than someone in Florida does doing the same thing. This is RL. Even if you put your blood, sweat, and tears into something no one is going to come over, pat you on the back, and hand you money.
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On April 19 2011 05:21 -miDnight- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers How did caster make money? other than those youtube guys get google ad and TGS. other than those few Day9/ tastosis ( DJwheat has a job i believe) I have no fucking idea how caster making money.
Ad rates from Youtube partnership. Blip.tv. Streaming sites like Ustream or Justin.tv. Being paid to go to events.
Artosis himself says he likes the security that casting brings, but wants to compete anyway.
On April 18 2011 13:04 Boundless wrote:
Dude, of course incontrol doesn't make six figures. That would be absolutely ridiculous if he did, since Flash makes about that much. Keep in mind that incontrol may live quite well for a progamer, but another income contributes to that, because his girlfriend runs a consulting/life coaching business.
There's no stability in pro gaming right now, due to the complete fragility of the games themselves. For all we know, this game will turn out to be a flop and nobody will be playing it in 2 years.... That's currently the stage that SC2 is at, complete uncertainty. People mainly make money from tournament winnings (100 - 500 per week is the best you'll ever get on average), streaming (next to zero, advertisements barely pay for your Internet cost), and a team salary if you are lucky (25 000 maximum).
Assuming you get 48 weeks of pay, thats roughly (250*48) + 25 000 + (500) = 37 500 dollars per year, not including taxes. I included 500 dollars of streaming revenue in there for generosity's sake. Working backwards, assuming you work 6 days per week and get paid for 8 hours per day, figures which are standard for most low-end jobs, that's 18.7 dollars per hour. High school students make that much money at some positions these days. Also, keep in mind these are absolute maximum numbers.
I didn't even include taxes in this calculation. In Canada, where I'm from, you would pay 15% of that in just personal income tax, not including unemployment insurance and your Canada pension plan. That brings you down to ~ 32 000 dollars per year take home. Some people can live on that, if you are willing to live in an apartment that's roughly the size of a shoebox and eat canned food every day. Nothing against those guys, but that's not for 99% of the population.
Pro gaming simply isn't a viable career yet. Think about how many people can make a living for themselves by playing video games. Less than 100 people globally, for sure. Your average good player like Sheth or Kiwikaki can't afford to live on their tournament winnings, not a chance.
The money in sports these days (and esports is included), is all from sponsorships. Some people have problems with that, but it's simply a fact. Athletes in respected and established sports make 90% of their income from sponsorship deals and contracts, rather than tournament winnings. Pro golfers are a prime example of this, and it's about 100 000 times easier to make a living playing golf than make a living as a pro gamer.
A lot of people in this thread have said it already, but I'll say it again. It's not a high-income life. Many high school students make more take home pay on a weekly basis, since their expenses are much lower.
How old are you? Probably not enough to be of working age to know how much it actually costs to make a living.
$30k is plenty. Plenty enough to live in more than a "shoebox." California minimum wage is $8/hr. $16k per year full time. Hundreds of thousands make a living off of this. You can pay the rent with that and eat out frequently. More room for luxuries if you room with someone and carpool. Keeping in mind the cost of living in California is absolutely absurd.
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I seriously doubt day9 makes anywhere near 100k per year. You need tens of millions of views on YouTube PER video with LOTS of video's getting millions of views constantly to be able to pull in any sort of money via YouTube. There is a website I found that closely estimates YouTube partners income (based on calculations when the guy was a partner himself); Husky was making ~$5-600 / day when the baneling song came out. I'll see if I can find the website...
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On April 19 2011 06:05 Reithan wrote:
According to that article, Day[9] is one of many Youtube streamers that pull in $100k+ JUST from Youtube.
I know exactly which article you're talking about, and that's not what that article says.
The article says that Day[9] is an online streamer, and there exist online streamers who have made upwards of $100,000 per year.
The article did not say that Day[9] was one of those who made $100,000 per year.
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sc2 is financially viable for 1 percent of the community or less.
poker is viable for 1 percent of the community or less.
you need a real job.
use the two mentioned avenues above to supplement your income if you're good, or to have fun.
my 2 cents.
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I think streaming also helps you make money. That's why programmers stream so they can use the ads to make them their money. Otherwise why else would they be wanting to stream their practice sessions right?
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On April 19 2011 07:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 06:05 Reithan wrote:
According to that article, Day[9] is one of many Youtube streamers that pull in $100k+ JUST from Youtube.
I know exactly which article you're talking about, and that's not what that article says. The article says that Day[9] is an online streamer, and there exist online streamers who have made upwards of $100,000 per year. The article did not say that Day[9] was one of those who made $100,000 per year.
I'm quoting this because quoted things tend to get a little more attention.
This article you're all referring to does NOT say that Day9 makes 100k a year. It gives a top10 of Youtube Celebs who are going to be POISED to make that much, in several years, if they remain popular, and actually try to actively cash in on their viewers.
The article does NOT say that he makes 100k a year...
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EPT
