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On February 04 2011 12:09 justle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 04:35 forgotten0ne wrote:On February 03 2011 00:57 theBullFrog wrote:
hd and husky do not make $100k a year.. someone said that once and HD said No. lol No. They make over that. At least Husky does. Do the math. $1.50/1k views. At least 200k views a day. $300/day x 365 = $109,500/yr Where are you getting $1.50/1k views? And 200k views a day? Even if these numbers are accurate, which I doubt they are, you would still have to figure in taxes, which would be over 1/3 of your final figure. I am positive your numbers are inflated, though, especially on daily views. Edit: Also, the hits on their videos are higher than G4's prime time ratings, so they deserve to be paid a lot more than $60k/year if they're even getting close to that.
You never are supposed to factor in taxes when you talk about someones income. If we say a CEO has a one million dollar salary he's not receiving the full one million.
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On February 03 2011 12:57 Rylaji wrote:
I always get confused when people say "Ohh this and that will never get accepted by society as a legit sport or activity". What you are forgetting is that in a couple of years the CEO's and such for all those big companies are our generation, the generation that has GROWN UP with more than 1 computer at home and seen the power of gaming and the internet as a whole.
I reckong in 10-15 years pro gaming is gonna be were poker is today.
No it won't because Poker stays the same. New games come out every month and new interest moves on after a few months for the most part. For this reason, pro-gaming is never going to be a stable long term profession for even the absolute best players in any particular game. That's not to say that it's not a worthwhile time investment, but ultimately you have to be the one to decide whether gambling away however many years of your life on a fleeting dream is actually worth it. Gaming is certainly going to become a more acceptable part of our culture in the years to come, but on the professional level, it will always just be flashes in the pan.
On February 04 2011 15:08 SimDawg wrote:
If he makes 1 cent per adview, again something I think is conservative.
Who the hell makes $.01 per ad view? That's ridiculously high. Are you talking about getting paid for ads that people actually click on? Because that's going to be FAR less in number than the actual views or subscribers a video gets.
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To be big enough to start paying pros decent money e-sports will have to be broadcast on tv. From what i've seen nasl ratings were reasonable at 30k but if you look at even a piece of junk tv show they get over 2 million views pretty easily and there income comes from advertisement revenue. If e-ports can continue to get bigger and the broadcast quality increases they may be picked up by a tv broadcaster and become the same size as poker has obviously become.
Also alot of these people comparing poker to sc2 is strange because the prize pools are so huge in poker due to the buy ins the players have to come up with as well as bigger sponsorships deals.
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You forgot the big up-and-coming category: streaming/VODs. So far the people making the most doing stuff like that are casters/commentators who are either ex-progamers or never were, but plenty of pros are making a little cash on the side streaming while they ladder and it's definitely a big piece of the financial equation when it comes to the rise of NA esports.
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On April 18 2011 12:21 toasti0 wrote:
To be big enough to start paying pros decent money e-sports will have to be broadcast on tv. From what i've seen nasl ratings were reasonable at 30k but if you look at even a piece of junk tv show they get over 2 million views pretty easily and there income comes from advertisement revenue. If e-ports can continue to get bigger and the broadcast quality increases they may be picked up by a tv broadcaster and become the same size as poker has obviously become.
Also alot of these people comparing poker to sc2 is strange because the prize pools are so huge in poker due to the buy ins the players have to come up with as well as bigger sponsorships deals.
Interesting necro, especially with all the new tourneys coming out with massive prize pools. I think making 40k+/year doesn't sound incredibly unreasonable for alot of average progamers who are on sponsored teams and do decently (when you consider that teams pay for housing, food, travel, etc. if that is even true haha) but obviously top-tier players could make alot of money depending on who they are/how well they do. I'd have no trouble believing that somebody like say iNcontroL makes six figures between coaching/casting/tournament winnings/team sponsorships/streaming/i think he has an extra job for EG?/possible salary from EG/food housing travel costs paid for/etc.
Of course, I could be entirely wrong about every single thing I just wrote and they could be dirtpoor like every other college/highschool kid 
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There really isn't much. If you had a sweet trustfund you should definitely go for it lol.
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I doubt incontrol makes anywhere near 6 figures. I'm sure he does fine, but not rich baller status (yet).
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On April 18 2011 12:32 Loki57 wrote:
I'd have no trouble believing that somebody like say iNcontroL makes six figures between coaching/casting/tournament winnings/team sponsorships/streaming/i think he has an extra job for EG?/possible salary from EG/food housing travel costs paid for/etc.
LOL.
Ridiculous. Do you have a job and recognize the value of a dollar?
/perfunctorily asks you to get off his lawn
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Its nothing. Idra will have to go back to college in 8-10 years, thats if he even stays top of the NA scene. Its not worth it unless your getting your college degree at the sametime for a steady job.
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I had a chance to go at the very least semi-pro on bw days, I was 19 in 2002, the scene wasnt that profitable, specially in my area. Even tho my brain was still in overdrive, I chose to continue my studies and be a sucessful civil engineer, and I dont regret it at all financially. My office is doing great, we have our main contracts stretched up till 2023 (lol), I'm working smart not hard, and I could spend a lot of time practicing sc2 in order to play competitively while still managing the office, but there's no picture I paint where it is viable time-wise.
Guess when you're 28, your priorities change a lot from when you are 19 
I'm not sure I'd choose to go pro on sc2.. the current imbalance could jeopardize your whole carreer...
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A word about team salaries:
Not that many teams pay them and the vast majority of them are not enough to live on. I know a bit of detail about some other players and I'll just say it surprises me a bit.
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it depends on how much they charge/ how much free time they have/how many people want their time
You have to play a couple hours a day, that's a given, but coaching can cost a decent amount depending who you get it from. I see prices anywhere from 150 to 15 dollars a hour. Depending where you sit, and how many people you can coach a day, you can definitely get a decent amount.
I make more coaching than I would working any where else 3 hour workdays at that. Whether or not I can juggle all 3 when I go back to school next semester, well, that's a different story. We'll see I suppose.
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On April 18 2011 12:57 Pokebunny wrote:
A word about team salaries:
Not that many teams pay them and the vast majority of them are not enough to live on. I know a bit of detail about some other players and I'll just say it surprises me a bit.
This
I used to play Call of Duty, Quake, and Counter Strike all of which had teams that had paid salaries and contracts. The "pro gamer" (unless they are the tip top of their game such as Complexity in Counter Strike or Rapha in Quake) makes a surprisingly low amount of money. Some make barely over minimum wage which can hardly support a lifestyle like this.
It would be great if we had someone from EG or Liquid comment on this.
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Just like in any other job, people don't talk about their salary and for good reasons. No employer is interested in people doing so either.
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Dude, of course incontrol doesn't make six figures. That would be absolutely ridiculous if he did, since Flash makes about that much. Keep in mind that incontrol may live quite well for a progamer, but another income contributes to that, because his girlfriend runs a consulting/life coaching business.
There's no stability in pro gaming right now, due to the complete fragility of the games themselves. For all we know, this game will turn out to be a flop and nobody will be playing it in 2 years.... That's currently the stage that SC2 is at, complete uncertainty. People mainly make money from tournament winnings (100 - 500 per week is the best you'll ever get on average), streaming (next to zero, advertisements barely pay for your Internet cost), and a team salary if you are lucky (25 000 maximum).
Assuming you get 48 weeks of pay, thats roughly (250*48) + 25 000 + (500) = 37 500 dollars per year, not including taxes. I included 500 dollars of streaming revenue in there for generosity's sake. Working backwards, assuming you work 6 days per week and get paid for 8 hours per day, figures which are standard for most low-end jobs, that's 18.7 dollars per hour. High school students make that much money at some positions these days. Also, keep in mind these are absolute maximum numbers.
I didn't even include taxes in this calculation. In Canada, where I'm from, you would pay 15% of that in just personal income tax, not including unemployment insurance and your Canada pension plan. That brings you down to ~ 32 000 dollars per year take home. Some people can live on that, if you are willing to live in an apartment that's roughly the size of a shoebox and eat canned food every day. Nothing against those guys, but that's not for 99% of the population.
Pro gaming simply isn't a viable career yet. Think about how many people can make a living for themselves by playing video games. Less than 100 people globally, for sure. Your average good player like Sheth or Kiwikaki can't afford to live on their tournament winnings, not a chance.
The money in sports these days (and esports is included), is all from sponsorships. Some people have problems with that, but it's simply a fact. Athletes in respected and established sports make 90% of their income from sponsorship deals and contracts, rather than tournament winnings. Pro golfers are a prime example of this, and it's about 100 000 times easier to make a living playing golf than make a living as a pro gamer.
A lot of people in this thread have said it already, but I'll say it again. It's not a high-income life. Many high school students make more take home pay on a weekly basis, since their expenses are much lower.
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Its like a professional session musician, you make 85% or more of your money from teaching. But like a musician, you have to have your hand in as much as possible if you really want to make a living at it..
Someone like InControl, ontop of tourney wins, coaching and sponsors, he also tries to get his hand in commentating and hosting events like NASL.. Now i dont know his contract details, so not sure if they are paying him, but Im sure hes getting something from it, at the very least major exposure for his coaching.
But coaching is becoming massive in SC2 from what I can see.. I've already made some good chunk of cash from coaching and mainly from people randomly asking me, not me promoting anywhere. Not to mention, I've only been top 200 in November/haven't played much at all since... Im sure it would be very reasonable to make at least $200 a month in coaching for any player who is mannered, intelligent and in Grandmaster or top end of MLG/etc tournies (IE talented in their play, not just getting GM from one-build)
not alot, but add it in with everything else, you can live off this game if you are smart (and dont live expensively)
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A few streamers actually make pretty decent money apparently. It was stated somewhere that you make ~$2 / 1000 viewers / commercial. IdrA regularly streams for 2-3 hours with upwards of 10k viewers and runs commercials after every game. I wouldn't be surprised if he made $200-$300 (or more?) in the 3 hours he streams via ad revenue. Destiny probably makes a similar amount daily, just requires a shit load more time.
I will agree though, for more streaming doesn't really generate very much income.
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ROOT.Destiny did an AMA on reddit.com a few weeks back where he answered this question. I don't remember exact figures, but it was something much higher than I expected.
I think if you stream a lot, with the amount of viewers he has (+how often he commercials), you can make a small sum of cash. He also coaches a lot, and streams coaching.
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JTV does 0.04 cents per commercial - which is $0.0004 per view on his stream. Therefore if you have 2500 viewers you make $1 per commercial. If you're like Huk and put a commercial after every game you'll average maybe $4 dollars an hour. His streaming schedule is usually 4-6 hours a day. Which is $500-$600 dollars per month.
That's about what Huk makes as his viewer counts average at that, which I mean isn't bad considering he doesn't pay for living expenses, ofcourse Im not certain what kind of share, if any tl.net takes from that.
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I think there are a lot of opportunities. And yeah there are some very nice prize pools to be gained and even those $100 dollar tournaments are good.
I mean $100 is not little money, there are also the big tournaments where I think all top 16 players get at least some money, like $300 or $500 which is quite a bit as well.
Also there are the showmatches with like only 2 players and prizes like $100 and $150 dollars.
Then there is also the streaming part, they actually get a good amount from stream views and then there is the coaching. I mean giving someone few tips for an hour for $30 or $40 sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
say if the average rate was $25 per hour of coaching, if you give like 2 lessons every day, that is $250 per week and $1400 a months, add to that the streaming money, some tournament and showmatch money, maybe you also got a sponsor and you are looking at around $1700-$2000+ per month.
Now I don't know how much is that is US, but here in Europe I think its quite a lot in most of the countries.
I mean MC is pretty rich right now, I mean he's got $175.000 dollars in his bank account right now.
And lets not kid our self, this is a competitive e-sport, if you are not good enough to win in tournaments, then you should probably stop being a progamer and find another job. Ultimately you need to win to attract sponsors and be able to sustain yourself.
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EPT
