EPTI have a hard enough time as it is dealing with colossus death balls on semi open maps, it is bad for my mental health to try and ZvP on this map.
Jungle Basin Updated - Page 13
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
I have a hard enough time as it is dealing with colossus death balls on semi open maps, it is bad for my mental health to try and ZvP on this map. | ||
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TehForce
1072 Posts
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On January 22 2011 00:12 zeru wrote: Agreed. It almost like the WoW community all started playing SC2 and got on TL to cry about imbalance. It's pretty sad. Well there are still too many problems with the map, you don't have to play the new version to predict which race the narrow hallways and chokes will hurt the most, none of that has changed. | ||
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Sonictonic
Sweden62 Posts
Agreed. It almost like the WoW community all started playing SC2 and got on TL to cry about imbalance. It's pretty sad. Good thing Blizzard seldom caves in to whiners(otherwise zergs drones would have 60k hp and hit for 10k with a range of 50), they usually wait things out and think them trough properly, as much as people like to belive otherwise. | ||
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Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
But in general i like that we see mapchanges at all!! | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On January 21 2011 23:48 Logo wrote: Mutas are weaker than average on JB because there's little/no room behind or to the sides of the main and natural. Mutas can't really bounce between the two faster than the defenders can reposition. With no impassable terrain (pits or high cliffs) it's hard to get really strong harass on your opponent. With the gold like it is if Terran puts turrets there and at their natural then their main is pretty much protected from harassment because there's no viable route to get there without going over turrets. The thing is, though, unless Terrans have the center as well, they won't be able to defend both from ling/muta harass unless they have complete map vision. Think about it, if you run your mutas and lings into, say, the gold, and he moves his army in to defend....and at the same time you send 10 banelings into his nat......he's farked. I'd say its comparable to Shakuras on close ground positions if you take the rocks out. You have easy access to both side of his base and expos, while his army has to run back in forth in a long line through all his simcity and crap. And at the same time it gives zerg an expo that while certainly not well protected, it is definitely an improvement over their other options on the map. | ||
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kellymilkies
Singapore1393 Posts
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HumbleHuman
United States7 Posts
Also if you do this you might even be able to hold the zergs gold from there for added lolz. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
If they can remove that little oasis of water in the middle of the map and make that a giant plateau, then I think zerg will finally have a shot on this map. | ||
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
On January 21 2011 14:27 Noev wrote: Blizzard new thats how the map is played and put it there for the other player to take, the one close to your main is not your expansion but your opponents its brilliant in its simplicity. Except you can't do that either, any ranged unit on that cliff is going to shut down mining. If they wanted your opponent to take it, they need to make the minerals face the other way. Either way, once your opponent takes his middle base, you're not going to be able to keep him from killing probes/the nexus, its one thing to say i can't be dislodged, its another thing to pretend i can just put my units on hold position and be safe. | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
On January 22 2011 00:09 DuckS wrote: My god, people. Can we at LEAST give this map more than two days before flaming each other and Blizzard? This is almost all pure theory, half of you probably haven't even played on it yet - in fact, 3/4 would be a safer assumption, as, a large amount of you are American. This is just pure frustrating - cry, cry, cry, "f u blizz omg", "mor liek ACTIVBLIZZ LOL". This here is the reason alone why sc2 will never surpass BW - everyone has this tearful imbalance mentality, supported from their teenage angst. Now, this third base. I don't understand the complaint with the rocks - Z's third on LT has rocks in the way but everyone is just fine and dandy with that. I'll admit making it gold is a little questionable, but, this is a step in the right direction. You, the Z, should be taking your third eons before the T should even be considering getting his. I've read every page in this thread, and I feel like half of you think the T will have a siege tank army with 4 planetary fortresses all over the map 7:00-8:00 minutes into the game. C'mon. The community asked, Blizzard granted. Let's work with it and see what happens, because, this flaming mentality from our fellow TL keyboard warriors is just getting pure out of hand. The community asked and Blizzard granted? Seriously that is so far off the mark. Blizzard's track record so far when it comes to maps is nothing short of appalling. Where to start? Why do Steppes and DQ still exist for one thing? I believe the community have shown themselves to be overwhelmingly in favor of these maps just being removed completely. Most would agree that they just aren't suitable for a competitive enviroment neither in terms of balance or entertainment. If Blizzard were truly listening to the community and trying to fix things, then these maps would already be long gone. Now how about the positional imbalances that exist on certain maps? Why haven't they been fixed yet? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155163 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171033 The issues were first brought up months ago. No response from Blizzard. Community map makers solved the problems themselves with little difficulty. No response from Blizzard. Why haven't these refined versions replaced what we have now? They are indisputibly superior. It's a small thing sure, but such a simple change to make. The only explanation is that Blizzard just simply aren't interested in improving these maps. Speaking of small changes, why on earth was Shakuras removed from the ladder map pool for such a long time? It was almost a month I believe. A small bug was discovered, one that can be quickly and easily fixed by anyone with any knowledge of the map editor but it took Blizzard an entire MONTH to do anything about it. How is that excusable? What possible cause could there have been for such a delay? We don't know because Blizzard have been completely silent on the issue not even informing us that the map was removed, why it was removed, or when it was returned. Nothing, the community was left to put the pieces together themselves. A single blue post on the Blizzard forums, some simple form of acknowledgement that Blizzard gives a fuck, is that really too much to ask? Now back to improving the existing maps. Lets look at Metalopolis. Widely regarded as one of the more balanced maps, maybe that's something Blizzard should be proud of? Except for one crucial detail. TvZ close positions. There is pretty irrevocable proof that some imbalance exists in these specific locations. What can be done about that? How about what they did for Shakuras? Remove close position spawns. It has been suggested plenty of times, I believe polls have shown that a fair majority support this. It would help balance out the map, it would provide more entertaining games, and it would keep the community happy. Small tweak, all positivies. Not been done, why not? Who knows. Now what about introducing new maps into the pool. Clearly several of the existing ones are very unpopular. Do Blizzard even need to make such new maps themselves? Not if they don't want to they don't because once again the community comes to the rescue. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/801781456?page=1 There are a large number of dedicated and talented map makers out there. All constantly churning out quality content that Blizzard just refuses to use. Again there is strong community support for this. What exactly is Blizzard's issue with this? We don't know, they don't tell us. It seems like a perfect solution to me. Rotate some of the more popular community maps into the ladder, with the map creators permission of course, if they work out well then keep them, if they don't then swap in something else. Only way we are going to find out which maps really work is if we have a large sample to work our way through. That large sample exists, why not use it? I could go on but I think the point is clear. The community have been making every effort to reach out to Blizzard with help and suggestions, giving feedback, making their concerns known, even doing Blizzard's job for them and producing the content and fixes themselves and what is Blizzard's response? More or less nothing. Dead silence on the issue. Then they give us this. An attempted improvement of a map that many feel shouldn't exist in the first place. Is this what they have been working on for the last few months? Was it thrown together at the last minute. We don't know, all we do know is that it doesn't look particularly promising. And even if it is, so what? Even if this changes JB from a shit map to an OK map, the overall pool is still pretty poor. And that is no ones fault but Blizzard's. For the most part the community has been bending over backwards to assist Blizzard in this particular issue. If this is the best that Blizzard can come up with after so many months, then I don't see that encouraging at all. Sure it's a step in the right direction. But it's a step so small as to be barely notable. I'm not impressed, and honestly I don't understand how anyone else can be. | ||
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sas01
Canada303 Posts
I dono why ppl are complaining without seeing any games on this map yet... | ||
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thurst0n
United States611 Posts
I would put a new base just outside the natural expansion destructable rocks, and then make the middle expos gold (if there is a gold on the map at all) possibly an extra walking path from JUST outside the rocks to the main middle part of the map. Ofc this would make it much easier to get from natural to main ramp for attackers.. I always felt like the 3rd base should be the one that continues the direction of your natural, but people always take the opposite one for reasons I can't understand, I guess the distance is further, but once someone takes that 3rd just up and outside your natural and when rocks are down its' very easy to get backdoored. I'm just thinking outloud.. | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/8t143.jpg) and the maps are still not on the NA | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
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oXoCube
Canada197 Posts
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
On January 22 2011 01:16 SugarBear wrote: Damn, I kind of liked how there was a map without gold minerals in the map pool. I guess there's still shakuras (apparently it's back now?) I do agree with you here. What I would like to see for this map is that each path in the middle only reaches to one of the towers and is not directly connected to the other highground expansion anymore. This way both players get a tower to scout leading to players running around the other way. That way every expansion on the map has two entrances. I don't think the gold was necessary. | ||
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