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On January 21 2011 21:15 Siwa wrote:what the fuck people so critical about all the changes blizzard makes. Show me game studios that goe "ahh community doesnt quite like the map.. lets try to fix it". Spoiled kids, you  Sometimes be appreciative of what you get with 60 or so bucks.
Why should you be happy about bad changes?
Just because you buy a game doesn't mean that you should take all the shit handed to you as gold. Shouldn't work that way.
The reason people are so critical is because Blizzard is notoriously bad at making maps and yet they control the ladder map pool. This becomes annoying when you have them make maps like Steppes and JB that are terribly imbalanced but are forced on you during ladder play.
Also retaining people to buy their next two FULL PRICE expansions will probably be a wise investment on their part don't you think?
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On January 21 2011 21:15 Siwa wrote:what the fuck people so critical about all the changes blizzard makes. Show me game studios that goe "ahh community doesnt quite like the map.. lets try to fix it". Spoiled kids, you Sometimes be appreciative of what you get with 60 or so bucks.
Yeah lets all be thankful for bnet 0.2 and this fantastic map pool which must be used for all open tournaments since bnet 0.2 is so fantastic !!
People complain for a good reason Blizzard wants to make Sc2 into an E-Sports game. Well Bnet 0.2 is defiantly not the way too achieve that. If people could get decent games on custom maps nobody would care about Blizzards maps However they are the only way to practice for 99,99% and hence are used in tournaments people better dont stop complaining until the whole issue with bnet is taken care of by Blizzard
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I think people need to stop immediately seeing ways that this will make the map even more imbalanced and instead try to figure out ways to turn this into an advantage for themselves
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On January 21 2011 21:11 Sockpuppet wrote:
Just another reason for Terran to sit and turtle with tanks...
It's actually a good reason not to.
If Terran takes the middle and tanks like a bastard (the way TvZ normally works on this map), Zerg takes the gold and is even or slightly ahead.
If Terran takes the gold, Zerg takes his own gold, OR the middle, OR the base near Terran's nat, because Terran's turtling far away from those places. Terran's most comfortable fourth is the one near Z's backdoor rocks, which is ALSO not near any base the Zerg wants to take.
The changes are much more subtle and better thought out than people are saying, but only time will tell if it does much for balance.
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On January 21 2011 21:22 Jameser wrote:
I think people need to stop immediately seeing ways that this will make the map even more imbalanced and instead try to figure out ways to turn this into an advantage for themselves
Sorry ? Switch Race ? :D. I
only played 3 games on the new JB and I suck at that game. So I cant really give a valued opinion on balance. However JB was ridiculous before and now it kinda got worse. The whole map design is meh.
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On January 21 2011 21:15 Siwa wrote:what the fuck people so critical about all the changes blizzard makes. Show me game studios that goe "ahh community doesnt quite like the map.. lets try to fix it". Spoiled kids, you Sometimes be appreciative of what you get with 60 or so bucks.
People don't want the map fixed they want it REMOVED like most every other map in Blizzard's awful pool.
I myself just see this as a band-aid being applied to a wound that needs stitches. I am getting mighty tired of Blizzard's reluctance to properly set up a map pool that features balanced maps.
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On January 21 2011 21:23 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 21:11 Sockpuppet wrote:
Just another reason for Terran to sit and turtle with tanks... It's actually a good reason not to. If Terran takes the middle and tanks like a bastard (the way TvZ normally works on this map), Zerg takes the gold and is even or slightly ahead. If Terran takes the gold, Zerg takes his own gold, OR the middle, OR the base near Terran's nat, because Terran's turtling far away from those places. Terran's most comfortable fourth is the one near Z's backdoor rocks, which is ALSO not near any base the Zerg wants to take. The changes are much more subtle and better thought out than people are saying, but only time will tell if it does much for balance.
This doesn't make any sense. The situation is still the same, terran can take the middle and zerg cannot. Both get an expansion and terran benefits from it even more than zerg because it is a gold.
the only way to fix the pool is to remove those godawful maps and put in Iccup or GSL maps instead. Those are made by humans using their brains.
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Blizzard has to get rid of the ideas of high yield minerals and rocks at expansions. It would be nice if you could take a (edit: more or less secure) third quickly but those stupid rocks just delay the time when you can actually take it to when you normally would want to take a third. Design fail.
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I'm not entirely sure what I think of this change yet. As I play zerg I see this as a step in the right direction.
Taking a third will definately be easier now (for Z esp.). Defending this one will be lots easier than any of the other ones. Which means that if I can get a third up and at the same time hinder the T/P from taking his/hers third, I'll be in a good spot.
I'm gonna have to test it out alot before I can decide whether I like it or not though.
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On January 21 2011 21:15 Siwa wrote:what the fuck people so critical about all the changes blizzard makes. Show me game studios that goe "ahh community doesnt quite like the map.. lets try to fix it". Spoiled kids, you Sometimes be appreciative of what you get with 60 or so bucks.
Well said, a few years ago i bought the board game monopoly for like 50 bucks... hasnt been patched ONCE since!
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On January 21 2011 21:29 Slunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 21:23 Ribbon wrote:On January 21 2011 21:11 Sockpuppet wrote:
Just another reason for Terran to sit and turtle with tanks... It's actually a good reason not to. If Terran takes the middle and tanks like a bastard (the way TvZ normally works on this map), Zerg takes the gold and is even or slightly ahead. If Terran takes the gold, Zerg takes his own gold, OR the middle, OR the base near Terran's nat, because Terran's turtling far away from those places. Terran's most comfortable fourth is the one near Z's backdoor rocks, which is ALSO not near any base the Zerg wants to take. The changes are much more subtle and better thought out than people are saying, but only time will tell if it does much for balance. This doesn't make any sense. The situation is still the same, terran can take the middle and zerg cannot. Both get an expansion and terran benefits from it even more than zerg because it is a gold.
Why the hell does the Zerg want the middle? Terran can take the middle, and Zerg can take the gold. Thus: There's no really good reason for the Terran to take the middle as his third anymore. The Terran takes the gold, which means the Zerg can take the gold AND the Zerg can take the base by the Terran's backdoor rocks as a third.
Sure, Terran can take the gold, and try to take the middle as his fourth and play like he used to. But now he gets that imba contain WAY later.
If the Terran takes the middle as his third, and thus lets the Zerg take the gold, he could try to take the gold as his 4th and stop the Z from getting a fourth. But keeping Zerg on 3 bases is a lot harder than keeping Zerg on 2.
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On January 21 2011 21:29 Airfan wrote:
Blizzard has to get rid of the ideas of high yield minerals and rocks at expansions. It would be nice if you could take a (edit: more or less secure) third quickly but those stupid rocks just delay the time when you can actually take it to when you normally would want to take a third. Design fail.
Yep, let the terran lift off their CC and plant it at the base with gold minerals 40 feet away. That'll balance the map.
The day I see JB and Steppes removed from the mappool is the day I start believing in God. I honestly don't see blizzard making more balanced maps, they should make a different 'pro' ladder where people can play ladder on GSL maps and stuff, not this 1base garbage.
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On January 21 2011 21:55 Chaosvuistje wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 21:29 Airfan wrote:
Blizzard has to get rid of the ideas of high yield minerals and rocks at expansions. It would be nice if you could take a (edit: more or less secure) third quickly but those stupid rocks just delay the time when you can actually take it to when you normally would want to take a third. Design fail. Yep, let the terran lift off their CC and plant it at the base with gold minerals 40 feet away. That'll balance the map. The day I see JB and Steppes removed from the mappool is the day I start believing in God. I honestly don't see blizzard making more balanced maps, they should make a different 'pro' ladder where people can play ladder on GSL maps and stuff, not this 1base garbage.
This is a failure of imagination, and critical thinking.
You can easily kill off the rocks before you would need your third. Unless you forgo making units for the first ten minutes of a game...
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I think some people are exaggerating how good this map is for Terran.
Yes a Terran can now get a third, but so can zerg. And i also see the 4th being easier for the zerg to take if they already have the gold.
Also zerg takes a much faster expansion than terran. This also makes sure than alot more games will go onto the lategame, which favors the zerg.
Point is, still a terran favored map, but not as much as before.
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A bit off-topic but was SoW updated too? The version says 1.1 and I just noticed that the 3rd base has 7 mineral patches instead the usual 8.
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I'm actually really excited to see how this works out.
Always liked the layout with a totally free expansion! A little harder third.
But now there's the possibility of a late game. Unlike before or Blistering where there's only 3 expansions pr. player.
And i've come to the conclusion that SC2 is balanced around gold expansions.
Awesome change! A map that favours immobility, but still has a lot of options for counterattacks.
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I just logged in to test some stuff, and my Jungle Basin is the same as ever (at least in Custom Games).
Am I idiot, or was OP bullshitting when he said it was up in EU?
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Sorry to be off topic slightly but when it auto downloaded a bunch of file ( new maps) , they were not only just LT , Shakuras , and JB, but there were maps like Xelnaga as well. Were there any changes to the other maps as well?
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i think its an improvement for the map in gameplay. im not sure which race it will end up favor the most tho
its more comfortable to take a 3rd now which i think is great. if it still favors t/p too much they can always open up areas and make ramps wider etc
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There's a whole lot of whining in this thread by a lot of people who haven't even tested the map yet. You might be right -- the changes might be for the worse, but at least have the decency to play a couple of games on it before you come to the forums and cry about how Blizzard loves Terran.
Some things to consider: in the old JB, any third you take is almost at least halfway into the map. If you both take the close expansions, you're about one and a half screens away from each other. If you take a side expansion, your expansion is far away from you and difficult to defend. This new expansion provides all races with a third that is close by their main base and thus quite a bit more easily defended. Your fourth is still difficult to take, but now it is less of a problem than everyone getting a free two bases.
This might still be a bad map, but give it a try before you complain.
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EPT
