EPTJungle Basin Updated - Page 9
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sqrt
1210 Posts
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JakeBurton
74 Posts
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Darren1337
Ireland73 Posts
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Smigi
United States328 Posts
On January 21 2011 18:50 sqrt wrote: I swear to God, Zerg will call even the SC2 version of "Luna" Terran favored. Are you suggesting that Old JB, Delta Quadrant, Steppes of war, and lost temple are not terran favored? I'm a pretty realistic when it comes to these things, and I don't its the zerg players whining more so than the maps being flat out imbalanced. Try playing Zerg against a good terran on any of the maps listed, who knows how to abuse the map. | ||
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b_unnies
3579 Posts
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sqrt
1210 Posts
On January 21 2011 19:10 Smigi wrote: Are you suggesting that Old JB, Delta Quadrant, Steppes of war, and lost temple are not terran favored? I wouldn't go that far, but we see this whine every time. The map isn't even a day old ffs. Someone pointed it out "Easy second/third - Terran can get their exp easy. Hard second/third - I can't get my second/third easy". Do the maps need rebalancing? Hell yeah, but every time people try to talk about...anything...threads get buried by some sort of Zerg whine( god help the fool that goes into LR threads). . | ||
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Fadetowhite
Korea (South)302 Posts
On January 21 2011 18:48 Kreb wrote: I love the comments here. If its easy to take its bad because Terran gets a free base. If its hard to take its bad because Terran can deny others (most notably zergs) from taking it. You do realize that Terran has had "an easy fourth" on XNC forever, right? Awaiting "but that will give Terran a too easy fifth" argument regarding some map somewhere. I've still not seen that one yet but Im sure its just a matter of time. we are not argumenting that terrans have a easy base, since that doesnt actually matter its the sole fact that their easy base denies ours. and in turn grants the terran even more bases. | ||
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frucisky
Singapore2170 Posts
On January 21 2011 18:48 Kreb wrote: I love the comments here. If its easy to take its bad because Terran gets a free base. If its hard to take its bad because Terran can deny others (most notably zergs) from taking it. You do realize that Terran has had "an easy fourth" on XNC forever, right? Awaiting "but that will give Terran a too easy fifth" argument regarding some map somewhere. I've still not seen that one yet but Im sure its just a matter of time. This! Zergs will have an easier 3rd imo with this change. Also, with 2 huge openings, if terran takes this, its very open to speedling harass. | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
On January 21 2011 18:20 Fadetowhite wrote: However this does not alleviate the problem, since the player on the offensive still has high ground adventage plus the fact that if the zerg takes this base the terran can just take the other high ground position, making the gold unholdable for the zerg. True we have units by then to kill it but not in reasonable fashion since the composition on this map has to be mutas for tier2, mutas and lings dont kill rocks very fast so the third will get delayed. The agrument that terran can get an easier 4th does apply to the issues zerg's are facing due too the nature that zergs have to be one base up, lets not forget the fact that the 4th allows the zerg to mass the tier3 units he will need to break the highground siege line. Every zerg player will conclude at first glance that this change will not balance this map TvZ wise, since the fundamental problems are still there. Pessimistic? i admit some comments are like this map will never be balanced etc. cause i do think this map could be one of the most balanced maps if they just make the map bigger so your army doesnt get clobbured by highground siege tanks years in advance, plus on every attack route. I've never seen someone miss the point so... acutely. I'm hardpressed to believe you're either a troll or simply did not understand what I was saying. Every argument you presented is a straw man, circumventing the gist of my post. | ||
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Mindl3ss
Canada2 Posts
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doomed
Australia420 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On January 21 2011 19:40 doomed wrote: Is it just me or is this updated map NOT on the NA server yet? I think people have said a few times that it's on ladder but not on custom games. This could be EU/Sea though not sure. | ||
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Fadetowhite
Korea (South)302 Posts
On January 21 2011 19:26 Uncultured wrote: I've never seen someone miss the point so... acutely. I'm hardpressed to believe you're either a troll or simply did not understand what I was saying. Every argument you presented is a straw man, circumventing the gist of my post. well thankfully you put your point in a TLDR The point is WE DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WILL EFFECT THE MATCHES ON THIS MAP. and all my arguments are based against this purely from a ZvT approach, so if you could elaborate your supposed point and how everything i pointed out is flawed in every single way i dont see how i missed to the point comepletly. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On January 21 2011 19:23 Fadetowhite wrote: we are not argumenting that terrans have a easy base, since that doesnt actually matter its the sole fact that their easy base denies ours. and in turn grants the terran even more bases. If you take a bit of time to read through the thread and the complaints you will find that this is indeed the source of plenty of whine. Maybe not yours, but a lot of others'. | ||
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Fadetowhite
Korea (South)302 Posts
On January 21 2011 19:48 Kreb wrote: If you take a bit of time to read through the thread and the complaints you will find that this is indeed the source of plenty of whine. Maybe not yours, but a lot of others'. ah indeed my mistake i should have said that i was not argumenting that since i enjoy playing vs a macro terran and macro games in general. i was more argumenting the fact that their base denies ours so easily, sorry. | ||
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Lythox
Netherlands161 Posts
"We are looking into the 1v1 map pool and possible changes to it. Our developers are working on additional ladder maps and those maps will be included as soon as they are ready. Also Shakuras is back!" So sooner or later, we're gonna get more maps! | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
They do a good job on reading on forums, watching GSL and listening artosis and tasteless comment on the maps. They probably stay in touch with strong players and well and get their opinion. Then they come and try to make things right - without actually understanding the underlying problem. It is true that the map will now favor longer games because the gold will be fairly easy to secure compared to the other expansions. But what does this do to balance? The map is still very small. All this does is make it easier for terran to control the middle and makes it almost impossible to starve them because they will now have a gold expansion for free that cannot be attacked. This has to be every zerg's nightmare. What would favor zerg? Imagine the map being twice as wide but until now there were no expansions to the very left (or right) of the map and they now suddenly added 2 expansions there. This would favor zerg. Nice try blizzard. Nice try. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On January 21 2011 19:54 Lythox wrote: Blizzard posted this in the EU b.net forums: "We are looking into the 1v1 map pool and possible changes to it. Our developers are working on additional ladder maps and those maps will be included as soon as they are ready. Also Shakuras is back!" So sooner or later, we're gonna get more maps! We don't want more maps. We want GOOD maps. If Blizzard added 30 maps to the map pool, they would probably still be 50% crap. It's nice in principle that new maps are being worked on, but when they say their developers, it's not such good news, because their developers suck. | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
On January 21 2011 19:45 Fadetowhite wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2011 19:26 Uncultured wrote: I've never seen someone miss the point so... acutely. I'm hardpressed to believe you're either a troll or simply did not understand what I was saying. Every argument you presented is a straw man, circumventing the gist of my post. well thankfully you put your point in a TLDR and all my arguments are based against this purely from a ZvT approach, so if you could elaborate your supposed point and how everything i pointed out is flawed in every single way i dont see how i missed to the point comepletly. You arguments are not flawed in every way. They are decent arguments. They just aren't what I'm arguing in any way, and in fact are straw-men. I'm saying until you have tested the map, many, many times, you wont have the evidence to support(or not support) your arguments. Until you show me a replay of top level players unable to take a 4th base easily against terran, on this new map, then all your ideas and beliefs are unsupported, and as such are theory craft. It's pessimistic to immediately think that at top level play this is unbalanced, without ever seeing if it is indeed so. | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
I think Blizzard was hoping zerg take a quick 3rd, but this only makes so that Terran can secure 3rd and 4th with the same line of defense.. | ||
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