EPTJungle Basin Updated - Page 10
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
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Far.771
United States51 Posts
On January 21 2011 20:17 Blackk wrote: The problem is that they took a rather dynamic world of warcraft battleground map (Arathi Basin) and tried to turn it into a Starcraft map. It would be a fantastic map to fight on if you didn't need a base. lol, never thought of it that way. doubt that was the thinking going into its creation though. | ||
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Fadetowhite
Korea (South)302 Posts
On January 21 2011 20:13 Uncultured wrote: You arguments are not flawed in every way. They are decent arguments. They just aren't what I'm arguing in any way, and in fact are straw-men. I'm saying until you have tested the map, many, many times, you wont have the evidence to support(or not support) your arguments. Until you show me a replay of top level players unable to take a 4th base easily against terran, on this new map, then all your ideas and beliefs are unsupported, and as such are theory craft. It's pessimistic to immediately think that at top level play this is unbalanced, without ever seeing if it is indeed so. true it is theorycraft i guess. | ||
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KMARTRULES
Australia474 Posts
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kosai
20 Posts
1. How do we know this map is imbalanced? Do we have any statistics concerning matchups win-ratio? 2. How do we know the earlier version of JB was imbalanced? Statistics? | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
But I see a big change, yeah, it's an easy base to take, but hard to defend as it's wide open (and on jungle, one of the core advantage for a terran was that its bases are harrass proof by ground) With creep, perhaps zerg will be able to defend it well, and terran will now have to keep a lot of defense at his gold so he will not be able to push cross map as easily. Just speculation, but let's see, not sure it's as bad as people think here. | ||
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On the other hand, it will still be a terran favored map. Nothing will change that too fast. So, its fine, but the gsl should still remove the map from their mappool. | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On January 21 2011 14:46 littlechava wrote: That's a pretty terrible, indirect solution to a problem. The problem people are having with this is that Blizzard has been very slow to offer new solutions to the obviously horrible map pool, and now when they've FINALLY made a change it's a terrible change that doesn't have any effect on the features that made the map terrible in the first place. The change is bad, adding more space would help the problem more than adding this gold would, though the map architecture would still make it bad either way. What I find funny is that it's such a small change. It's a 5 minute work. I can imagine them sitting their discussing maps and "working" on the map pool for 2-3 months and this is what the come up with lol. | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On January 21 2011 20:02 Lonyo wrote: We don't want more maps. We want GOOD maps. If Blizzard added 30 maps to the map pool, they would probably still be 50% crap. It's nice in principle that new maps are being worked on, but when they say their developers, it's not such good news, because their developers suck. I actually think that would be a fairly decent solution. They just mass-produce maps and then we get to vote them up/down on the ladder and perhaps also in internet polls etc. We would get a couple of decent maps then. And then those could be used. There could constantly be another test-map-pool where this procedure would be repeated. | ||
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Far.771
United States51 Posts
On January 21 2011 20:28 Sandermatt wrote: I don't understand why this gold expansion is regarded as easy to secure. I mean if you want to defend your main and your third with your army, than your army stands below a cliff, a rather awkward position. for a zerg it's definitely going to be a lot easier to secure. the reason the other 3 bases are soo difficult to secure are because the sides are so far away and the center is straight towards the same direction as your opponents main. | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
On January 21 2011 14:41 SenorChang wrote: If it does have a heavy Terran bias like people are claiming then Zergs/Protoss will just thumbs down the map in GSL ( lol do you have any idea what you are talking about? JB in incredibly good for P in this matchup, the backdoor warpin AND rocks allow you to do like 5 different one base builds to easily finish the game or heavily cripple the T unless he scouts it exactly. And lategame Terran can't expand much because the Protoss deathball can reach every location reasonably fast. Plus all the narrow chokes make it a nightmare vs storm/colo. | ||
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Elmo
France90 Posts
I was expecting a safer 3rd and/or that doesn't involve breaking rocks as P ~ Still veto-ing the map. | ||
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
Imagine you're a Terran (and you're not BitByBit). What was your plan before? On Jungle Basin, a Terran would take the middle blue base as his third, and turtle up there. This placed him within spitting distance of any potential third the Zerg would take. This is why it's hard for Z to take a third: A Terran can defend his own third while still being able to attack any base on the map. You basically have map control even while you're turtling. If you do that now, the Zerg takes the gold. You can still attack it, but not while defending your own third. The gold is safer because attacking it exposes you to counter-attacks. So there's much less benefit to taking that middle now. Instead, you're going to want to take the gold as the third. It's super-safe, and you can Mule it. But now you have a lot less map control. . The Zerg can take the gold, the middle, or the side expansion closer to your natural. It's a lot safer. That is the bigger effect of the golds. It's not that Blizzard went "Oh, you want a third base? Here's a base". Not exactly. But the fact that you COULD take the gold if Terran took the middle means Terran has no reason to take the middle. They'll take that tasty gold, and now Zerg gets the map control they need. A terran can play for map control, or he can turtle. He can no longer do both at once. That's the point of the golds, not just a base for Zerg to take. How well does that work in practice? We'll have to see. I just hope this isn't like Desert Oasis, where they released a fix and killed the map two weeks later. | ||
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Rabbitmaster
1357 Posts
On January 21 2011 14:09 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so now T and P get a gold base while Z is still stuck with 2 defensible bases what part of this map makes sense Doesnt Z also get a gold base? :D And in what way is it easier to defend as T/P rather than Z? what part of your comment makes sense | ||
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Sockpuppet
119 Posts
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Siwa
91 Posts
Show me game studios that goe "ahh community doesnt quite like the map.. lets try to fix it". Spoiled kids, you  Sometimes be appreciative of what you get with 60 or so bucks. | ||
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