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Refined Map Project

Forum Index > SC2 General
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1 2 3 4 Next All
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 03:37:36
November 22 2010 19:21 GMT
#1
This thread is going to serve as an announcement thread for anything in regards to any of my Refined Maps.

The Refined Map project hopes to make minor edits to all of the Blizzard maps, making their asymmetrical spawns even for tournament play. The ideal is to fix any positional problems between spawns without changing the fundamental architecture, features or personality of the map, so the map will play exactly the same strategically, but no longer favor one spawn point over another.

Tournaments using Refined Maps
GMMA Invitational
The ALERTcup open
The Average Joe Tournament
AstaRTG ANZ Open - Early December
The SPGL Weekly #14 - 12/12
Hyper Crew Open #8 - 12/10
The SPGL Weekly #13 - Concluded
NC Gaming Invitational - Concluded
Hyper Crew Open #7 - Concluded
SCEU Cup #4 - Concluded
RTS Lounge's 11-27 Tournament - Concluded
1v1 PAM Tournament 11/26 - Concluded
SCEU Cup #3 - Concluded

Other events using Refined Maps
VT Gaming team practice, as well as any VT run KOTH or clan wars
Hyper Crew's Weekly King of the Hills - Every Thursday
Thundertoss's top 200 KOTH

All Maps can be found on NA, EU and SEA by creating a custom game and searching for "Refined". They can also be downloaded here.

A little about the process used to make and test these maps:
+ Show Spoiler +

Each of these maps is made with extensive help from the community, using human resources at Team Liquid, Starcraftarena.net, PlayXP, SC2mapster.com, and various proteams to find asymmetrical imbalances with a map. In each instance the community is polled to figure out which way a positional problem should be fixed.

Once a map has been balanced, it goes through a testing period where it is tested by progamers in actual high level games, before it is cleared for tournament play. VT Gaming helps with this primarily, although several other professional gamers help with this part of the process. VT Gaming exclusively uses the refined versions of these maps for their team practice, so the maps will continue to be tested at a high level long after they are cleared. I review every test game replay, to assure that the changes do not cause any pathing problems or new imbalances.

Below are some quotes from progamers and community leaders about the map project, or individual maps specifically:
From VT:
+ Show Spoiler +

VT Mirhi:
I actually like this.

VT Tranqfx:
yea, looks good

VT bLuR:
i like these changes

VT Trump:
I also like the map.

VT Whiplash:
I'm aware of the positional balance on this map in ZvZ, your balance changes seem to address it. Looks good.

VT Godder:
It's not a big deal but it is one extra creep tumor.

VT Swu:
I like it.

VT DesRow:
That reworks is incredible. The map needs this to be balanced.

VT Genocide:
Changes make sense. Good on ya.

VT Spades:
Seems alright.



From others:
+ Show Spoiler +

From Team Liquid's Liquid`Nazgul:
Looks good. Excellent work.

From MouseSports MorroW:
i like it because scrap station has these positional imbalances that u mention here, the creep spread in the main to ramp and all the wallin things, is actually a pretty big deal at high level

From Lazarus Gamings HDStarcraft:
It's nice. More balanced.

From iCCup.Diamond, iCCups head admin:
Looks pretty good, good job!

From Zelniq:
this thread needs more attention as it's really stupid that maps like this one have pointless imbalances.

From EG Colbi, manager of Team Evil Geniuses:
I like the map.

From Noah Lazarus, manager of Lazarus Gaming:
This is a great idea.

From Naniwa:
This Scrap Station looks nice. This is the way it should be.




---

Refined Scrap Station
+ Show Spoiler +

Download link: http://sc2.nibbits.com/maps/project/76336/refined-scrap-station

Scrap Station is a good example of an excellent map with a few slight problems. A while back Zelniq posted a thread on Team Liquid illustrating these issues in detail.

The biggest concern is the ramp leading to the main base, which is a different distance from the starting location depending on your spawn point. This is a large concern for Zerg. On the righthand spawn Zerg cannot effectively cover the ramp with spine crawlers on their starting creep, nor can they spread creep to the bottom of the ramp with a single tumor. Both of these things are possible on the lefthand spawn, and the progaming community has accepted at this point that ZvZ on Scrap Station unquestioningly favors the left spawn position.

[image loading]

Below are a detailed list of the changes, their reasoning and images illustrating why they were problems in the first place, and what was done to change them.


Change #1:
The righthand spawn locations ramp was pushed inward slightly. This prevents the problem of spine crawlers on the right spawn having bad coverage of the ramp compared to the left, and prevents the problem of needing an extra creep tumor to reach the natural on the right spawn.

In order to make the number of buildings required to wall off as a FEing Protoss or Terran the same, a doodad was added close to the cliff edge. Walling at the ramp is the same.

Finally, to fix the issue of the righthand main now being smaller, some space was added on the far right side for tech buildings, similar to the space on the far left of the lefthand main.

The old and new righthand ramp:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]


Spine Crawlers at the ramp:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


Number of Creep Tumors to connect main to natural:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


Different possible wall-offs:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


The slightly enlarged area of the right main:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]



Change #2:
A doodad has been placed behind the destructible rocks on the left-hand spawn. Before, it would take an extra building to wall off behind the rocks on the left spawn compared to the right.

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]



Change #3:
The chokepoint south of the natural on the right hand side of the map has been slightly enlarged, making it impossible to wall with 2 buildings on the right hand side. It was originally possible to wall with 2 buildings here on the right side but not on the left.

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]



Change #4:
Previously, there was a spot on the island on the south spawn side where Infestors could spit Infested Terrans over the gap, even though Stalkers cannot blink over the island. This spot has been removed to make this no longer possible.

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]



Map Analyzer imagery of the changes, for reference:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]


The map is currently online and up to date as "Refined Scrap Station" on the North America, Europe and Southeast Asian servers. It can be found by searching for "Refined".


Refined Metalopolis
+ Show Spoiler +

Download link: http://sc2.nibbits.com/maps/view/135230/refined-metalopolis

While Metalopolis is generally considered a pretty good map with few imbalances and issues, like most Blizzard maps it too is asymmetrical, and has some minor problems. The primary problem is the difference in air distance behind the mains of each spawn location. This makes air harass much more powerful at the north spawn location compared to the others.

[image loading]
[image loading]

This, and two other minor problems, have been changed.


Change 1:

The air distance behind the main mineral line was evened out for the 4 spawns. Previously the north spawn had much more air distance than the other three, and the south spawns air distance was so small you actually couldn't click there without tilting the camera.

The changed air distance is even between the two extremes, at 5 range between the edge of the map and the closest point of the main base. This is enough for an air unit to comfortably get behind the mineral line, but not enough for it to kite enemy defenders.

Pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]



Change 2:

The inefficient gas geysers at the north and south spawns were fixed. It's kind of hard to explain this through pictures, but there are certain points where 3 workers only mine a geyser with 90% efficiency. This can slow early game tech by 5-10 seconds, especially if you accidentally take the bad geyser first. See this thread for details.

Pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]



Change 3:

The natural expansions were slightly edited, to make walling at the natural the same for all four spawns. This had the added effect of reducing the size of the west spawn main, which was substantially larger than the other 3.

Note that these pictures show the smallest possible wall (fewest number of required buildings), not necessarily the best possible wall.

Pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]



And for you map analyzers, we have some map analyzer imagery:
+ Show Spoiler +

Metalopolis -
[image loading]

Refined Metalopolis -
[image loading]


The map is currently online and up to date as "Refined Metalopolis" on the North America, Europe and Southeast Asian servers. It can be found by searching for "Refined".
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
TopPower
Profile Joined September 2010
United States32 Posts
November 23 2010 02:45 GMT
#2
This is fantastic! I fully support this refined map!
'bout time we kick this revolution into overdrive
infringement153
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30 Posts
November 23 2010 02:52 GMT
#3
Great job. As a z player, I love not having to fret over which spawn I'll get if I want to use spine crawlers to kill hellions on the ground. I hope Blizzard fixes this map on ladder!
Tropical Bob
Profile Joined August 2010
United States127 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-23 02:58:22
November 23 2010 02:57 GMT
#4
With the right-hand ramp being pushed back, I do notice that the entrance to the natural right below the ramp now looks larger than that of the left-hand side. Perhaps, instead of throwing the doodad at the left-hand destructible debris, you could just move the hole a bit up and to the right at the right-hand natural. That way, you fix it being walled off by one building only as well as the natural's entrance.
HydroXy
Profile Joined May 2010
United States513 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-23 03:07:27
November 23 2010 03:07 GMT
#5
Wow, thanks for all your hard work. I support these changes. Most of them look perfectly done.
Now we have to petition Blizzard to get this version of the map into the ladder.
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
November 23 2010 04:09 GMT
#6
Damn, looks solid, hope it gets passed into the ladder; because spawn imbalances are inexcusable to be honest.
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
November 24 2010 03:48 GMT
#7
The NC Gaming Invitational is allowing use of both Scrap Station and Refined Scrap Station in their tournament. I'm told they are going to request that players only use the Refined version for casted games.

Please check them out: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166228
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Calm
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada380 Posts
November 24 2010 04:53 GMT
#8
great work

i'm loling at all of the imbalances on this map. i didn't even realize most of them. thanks for your time and effort in correcting these
imyzhang
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada809 Posts
November 24 2010 05:16 GMT
#9
fucking amazing. now on to... steppes of war with the col cliff-walking distance from low ground to naturals =]

blizzard should give you a small sum of commission ;D
bleh
-{Cake}-
Profile Joined October 2010
United States217 Posts
November 24 2010 05:18 GMT
#10
change 2 bothered me so much =P, thanks for fixing
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
November 24 2010 06:35 GMT
#11
njfail.com's PAM tournament is now also using Refined Scrap Station.

Check them out at: http://www.njfail.com/tournaments
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
November 25 2010 05:39 GMT
#12
I'm told Hyper Crew is now going to be using Refined Scrap Station for their weekly Thursday King of the Hill events.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
thezergk
Profile Joined October 2009
United States492 Posts
November 25 2010 07:29 GMT
#13
blizzard really should look into dong all these changes
Nada vs. TLO Results: "Nada 1 TLO 1 Bnet 2 KESPA 1"
Nerski
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1095 Posts
November 25 2010 08:47 GMT
#14
Looks pretty good, only thing I'd ponder is if you considered the high ground defense disadvantage you created on the right had spawn by pushing the ramp back, and re orienting a wall off there.
Twitter: @GoForNerski /// Youtube: Youtube.com/nerskisc
Scrimpton
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom465 Posts
November 25 2010 08:56 GMT
#15
Interesting initiative, hope it works out :D
Protoss is the only race with "pro" in it
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
November 25 2010 16:57 GMT
#16
The SCEU Cup #3 is going to be allowing both Scrap Station and Refined Scrap Station in their map pool.

Take a look at their tournament, I think sign ups are still open: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170349
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-25 17:01:33
November 25 2010 17:00 GMT
#17
Easier to wall, easier to spread creep, bigger chokes?

It's a good thing you made these changes, otherwise this map would be way too hard for zerg... /nts

Good changes though, nice to see someone take the initiative to fix Blizzard's mistakes. Maps need lots of work, good job!
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
rea1ity
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom385 Posts
November 26 2010 13:12 GMT
#18
Doesn't Shakuras Plateau have positional defects too? The northern spawns have a far bigger gap behind the main for harassment as opposed to the southern spawns.
그 스타 크래프트의 꿈, 그 꿈 생활
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-26 19:09:08
November 26 2010 18:57 GMT
#19
The SCEU Cup #3 is now streaming live at http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/LeonStarcraft
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
TehForce
Profile Joined July 2010
1072 Posts
November 26 2010 22:42 GMT
#20
Hopefully your map will be successfull, so more tournaments get aware of your refined version
NesTea <3
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