EPTI guess even hardcore fps players would be more suited (quick mouse) for a game like sc2 and console gamers a lot less ...
sc2 skill, learned vs natural - Page 12
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
noD
2230 Posts
I guess even hardcore fps players would be more suited (quick mouse) for a game like sc2 and console gamers a lot less ... | ||
|
Makeone
Sweden24 Posts
BUT the best way to advance (how i advanced thro plat to dimond in 20 or so games) is use safe builds and NEVER go into a game not preperd go 1 or 2 costem before. Its kindof like jinro he pratist a lot before he won MLG dalas and before he got well known soon all your games will give fruti | ||
|
Nearsite00
United States31 Posts
| ||
|
Leviwtf
174 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:18 Nearsite00 wrote: How do you explain child prodigies or young geniuses. You can't deliberate intellect or understanding of complex concepts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_prodigy I don't understand what this proves other than if you start deliberate practice at a very early age you can achieve success at an earlier age. You also realize that linking a wikipedia article proves literally nothing...I'd also argue that many of the "child prodigies" are overrated in terms of their skill. If you have any proof of talent existing I would love to see it and discuss/debate it. Also, pg. 33-36 in the article I linked discuss and disprove the child prodigy theory. On January 05 2011 07:28 Nearsite00 wrote: So if this game does not require exceptional intellect or physical prowess, what is it that makes someone seem naturally better than another person at SC2? The amount of time they spend doing "deliberate practice" which is a very specific method of practice. Google it and learn more about it. | ||
|
PatouPower
Canada1119 Posts
On January 04 2011 17:32 piskooooo wrote: They probably got Diamond from winning 4-5 of their placement matches. They probably just 4gate, cannon rush, 6pool, 12drone, 2 rax, etc. They probably got it when the game was new. They probably lied. You forgot the part: They probably read a LOT about the game, watch a LOT of stream and have a basic sense of strategic gameplay. Myself I probably watch and read more SC2 than I actually play because of free time issues or fatigue, but I often beat people with 700-800 more points than me. SC2 or RTS in general aren't like FPS or fighting games where practice is everything. Yes, you need to practice a lot, but knowing the mechanics/build orders/timing of the game is much more important to begin with, IMO. So yea, they might have gotten do diamond after 50ish games, without cheesing or playing horrible opponents, but only because they previously gathered knowledge about the game. | ||
|
ROOTCatZ
Peru1226 Posts
| ||
|
Pylonhead
United States9 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:05 Leviwtf wrote: What exactly are you basing this statement on as every single scientific study, dataset, and experiment would disagree with it. To answer your example, I'd say that it is obvious that everyone has different specialities and things they are skilled in, that is because they have practiced different things. As a result, people are seen to "have a gift with languages" when in reality they have spent more practicing language than you. Refer: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/freakonomics/pdf/DeliberatePractice(PsychologicalReview).pdf Like I said, there is no such thing an innate talent. Anything you think is talent is actually just the result of deliberate practice. Okay, here's one study that contradicts what you claim that "every single study" finds. It took me about 2 minutes to find it on google: http://pss.sagepub.com/content/21/7/914.abstract | ||
|
Kefka.dancingmad
Canada262 Posts
| ||
|
news
892 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:32 CatZ.root wrote: Minigun is highest rated player in North America with no previous RTS experience or super high apm Do you know him IRL? On January 05 2011 07:39 Kefka.dancingmad wrote: I don't mean scholarly intellect, I mean IQ. Real intellect. I'm sure top players score high on IQ tests. Okay no, they don't. | ||
|
Leviwtf
174 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:36 Pylonhead wrote: Okay, here's one study that contradicts what you claim that "every single study" finds. It took me about 2 minutes to find it on google: http://pss.sagepub.com/content/21/7/914.abstract And did you read the study? What do you think of it? I did overexaggerate when I state every single study supports it though, if there is a topic science you can be guaranteed it has been debated. I'll rephrase my statement to the generic "accepted by most scientists" You also realize in the title it says it supports the deliberate practice theory but that it is saying that deliberate practice is not the only factor in expert performance but that working memory capacity is another factor which they are testing. Also the skill they are testing is piano sight reading skill so it makes sense on a basic level that working memory capacity would have an effect because lots of piano sight reading is based on memory. | ||
|
thesauceishot
Canada333 Posts
It was a natural progression for me as I learned the concept of a build order quite early in my SC2 career. Immediately from the first game I played, I HATED not knowing which buildings I should produce and in what order (a build order). So then I found a 3gate robo build on Husky's channel and I just kept doing that in all my match-ups. I got good at it quite quickly and that 1 base timing attack was strong enough to get me into diamond relatively easily. So I think in the end it comes down to a person's desire to learn and improve. Some people are still very bad after playing a lot of games because they keep playing but they don't mentally note what works well and what doesn't work well. For me since I'm incredibly competitive, I don't like losing. That motivates me to improve. Play to either win or improve, and when you're not doing either then you probably shouldn't play. | ||
|
Kefka.dancingmad
Canada262 Posts
| ||
|
news
892 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:46 Kefka.dancingmad wrote: Lol trolls trolling trolls. I don't want to be apart of this. I opt out. Run with your tail between legs, good idea. Once my argument gets picked apart I usually choose to depart while proclaiming a victory. | ||
|
Kefka.dancingmad
Canada262 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:49 news wrote: Run with your tail between legs, good idea. Once my argument gets picked apart I usually choose to depart while proclaiming a victory. No, I don't need to prove anything to Gold/Plat level players. That is all. EDIT:: I mean you, news. | ||
|
Chylo
United States220 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:32 CatZ.root wrote: Minigun is highest rated player in North America with no previous RTS experience or super high apm He's also terran. And has the time to play a huge amount. Honestly, the original poster's problem is that he is playing zerg. Zerg is so massively more difficult to play than the other races it's crazy. Zerg is also the worst. You mess up 1 thing and you lose. Basic macro from a terran or toss gets you to diamond. If he switched to toss and was taught the 4 gate he would hit diamond rapidly. | ||
|
Pylonhead
United States9 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:44 Leviwtf wrote: And did you read the study? What do you think of it? I read the abstract, which sufficed to refute your point quite thoroughly . Honestly, I suspect that the "working memory capacity" that they refer to is only one dimension of an near infinite space of capabilities that human beings possess to one extent or another. IQ is pretty obviously another. Surely you don't believe that someone with a very low IQ, say 70s, can excel in a complicated field (quantum physics) if they simply practice effectively. | ||
|
ktimekiller
United States690 Posts
| ||
|
fishinguy
Russian Federation798 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:53 Chylo wrote: He's also terran. And has the time to play a huge amount. Honestly, the original poster's problem is that he is playing zerg. Zerg is so massively more difficult to play than the other races it's crazy. Zerg is also the worst. You mess up 1 thing and you lose. Basic macro from a terran or toss gets you to diamond. If he switched to toss and was taught the 4 gate he would hit diamond rapidly. Please dont turn another thread into "terran is imab/ terran is ez mode" we have all heard it before. I am tired of people saying a player is less skilled because he is "terran" | ||
|
SolidusR
United States217 Posts
I think my access to diamond was due more to individual battles than my understanding of the game. I understood how to use zerg units to exploit certain situations and I was constantly on the lookout for those situations throughout the game, my fallback being muta harass which taught me a lot about the value of good micro. Basically I hate dying in any game I play so I did my best to use my army to its maximum value so I didn't lose any units, and it ended up winning me a lot of early games. In the early game I'd get caught up in this flow where I tried to make everything as efficient as possible and perfectly bounce my minerals back to 0 when I made new things, this focus would always dissipate but I think it gave me a really strong foundation seeing as I was bored until the combat units came out anyway. | ||
|
emidanRKO
United States137 Posts
p.s. started early november The thing about 4gate, 3rax(maybe 4rax, or 5rax scv allin), or zerg all-ins now is that people at low diamond are worse than they were before, so they have a harder time stopping it, therefore getting diamond but not a high rating isn't really a decent accomplishment anymore, it seems. | ||
| ||
