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On December 22 2010 23:07 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2010 23:02 TheBanana wrote:On December 22 2010 22:56 djengizz wrote:On December 22 2010 22:40 TheBanana wrote:
Why would I prize-block my friend for nothing? Lol, this is getting more and more ridiculous. Friendship shouldn't be a factor in any competitive scene. If your friend isn't good enough to win as many times as is needed to collect a bonus prize his skill is prize-blocking him, not his friendship. According to the premise he evidently is good enough, and also the incentive you have in the scenario is not to compete due to the structure. Give it some thought, don't just blurt out stuff. He gave it some thought. That's why he's right... Try giving your own post some thought. According to the premise he is good enough *only if his friend throws the match to him*. Yes, the incentive is not to compete in the tournament at all. Yes, this is a dumb prize structure. No, that fails to change the fact that this is totally unacceptable behavior.
"*only if his friend throws the match to him*" simply not true.
The given premise says he is the best player and the second best player loses his incentive to even try to compete with him. In the next sentence you're even agreeing with the point I was trying to make.
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I have heard of and participated in the agreeing to sharing prize money then playing it out for real and thats fine. Throwing matches thou is not on..
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Morrow stop streaming...
You clearly do not think before you speak and that's not a good quality when you are streaming.
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On December 22 2010 23:03 cromat wrote:
People do this all the time in Magic the Gathering and Yugioh games, letting their friend win because even if they win they won't make top 32/top 8 because of tie breakers, and its not punished as long as both players consent and there was no bribery of any form (can't ask your friend for cards or cash for the scoop)
That sad, morrow is a retard for not closing his stream even after sjow asked him to.
This was my initial thought. It makes a lot of sense with how the tournament is structured. This was a very common and accepted practice in MtG tournaments. The tournament organizers disapproved so they stopped. I don't see the problem.
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Wow this is so disappointing.
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Whats the difference between doing this, and one person just intentionally throwing a game without telling anyone he would do it? You can't stop that kind of thing no matter what. I one and ONLY reason I care is because I am a spectator, and it makes good games a lot less likely if people are throwing matches.
I mean, I totally understand why people are upset, I almost feel like I should be upset myself, but I honestly just don't feel myself getting all worked up over this.
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Seems like everyone here is just picking a side and then sticking 100% to it. Personally I think all those involved is a little bit at fault here. What they were planning was not cheating but it was potentially dishonest and definitely disrespectful to the tournament. On the other hand the tournament setup is pretty underhanded as well, only handing out the real prize under certain conditions, disincentivizing competition.
In the end everyone looks a bit dirty, but nothing actually happened, noone actually cheated, just a bad taste in your mouth.
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Pro Wrestling meets eSport 
if they are seriously match-fixing what they could do .. is agree to have some giant 4 hour game where every mineral is mined.... and if people think its real the game will be celebrated for years and years.. and each player will increase their "fame level" and stature in the community.
professional wrestlers that pull this off eventually become "championship contenders".
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This is entirely blown out of proportion and incorrect. Do you honestly think a previous IEM winner is stupid enough to talk about match fixing while streaming? This news story comes from rakaka and as TLO stated in the TeamLiquid post regaurding this situation: “I wouldn’t take news that origins from rakaka too seriously thoe. They are basically the sun of e-sports so always read their posts with caution”.
So what happened? The event is a set of 18 “LAN” tournaments that will not be streamed. If you win 11 out of the 18, you get a very nice computer. As MorroW and SjoW are the only 2 pros competing, they plan to get to the finals every time. As they are equal in skill level, it is unlikely for one them to go 11 and 18. So they discussed making a pact starting that one will always forfeit; why? Because if they unlock all the prizes both of them can get a 1st place prize pool and come out winners.
They were caught talking about doing it, since then they talked to the admins to ask if it was ok. The admin said no, so one of them will drop out but they will still share the prize. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Is it a shame they are avoiding playing eachother so they can make more money? Yes but it’s because of the tournament setup, financially it is a no brainer.
Still don’t understand?
* it’s local LANs with not many spectators and not being streamed
* they talked to admins, the leaked convo was them realizing they could both get a 1st place prize pool
* they were going to forfeit, now one dropped out
* there was never a fixed match
I hope that settles this issue and if you are part of the media please verify before you post. Also shame on any site who just reposted Rakaka’s article, get some original content. In otherwords, Match Fixing? Don’t Worry, tahts BW.
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On December 22 2010 22:13 VoirDire wrote:
Let's say it's day 18 and you are in the finals with your friend. Your friend has won 10 tournaments. If you win, you'd get a €25 gift certificate. If your friend wins, he'd get a computer worth €4000 (and a €25 gift certificate).
Like someone said before me, it's an clear case of the prisoners dilemma. In that scenario, I would seriously be ashamed if i won the last game instead of my friend.
An update now that I have read Inferno Onlines prices for the tournament.
It's not actually that binary as I first suspected. The more tournaments you win, the better price you'll get.
If you win 10 tournaments, you'll get a Intel Core i7 Extreme 980X-processor+mobo (like ~€1100 retail price). If you win 9 tournaments' you'll get a Intel Core i5-750+mobo. (like ~€330). Etc.
I'd still feel bad about robbing my friend of that €4000 computer though.
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On December 22 2010 23:32 skipdog172 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2010 23:03 cromat wrote:
People do this all the time in Magic the Gathering and Yugioh games, letting their friend win because even if they win they won't make top 32/top 8 because of tie breakers, and its not punished as long as both players consent and there was no bribery of any form (can't ask your friend for cards or cash for the scoop)
That sad, morrow is a retard for not closing his stream even after sjow asked him to. This was my initial thought. It makes a lot of sense with how the tournament is structured. This was a very common and accepted practice in MtG tournaments. The tournament organizers disapproved so they stopped. I don't see the problem.
Well to boil it down, the reason for such a big tournament would be to get alot of recognition. And if every final in the tournament is staged the audience wont come to watch. This kind of behavior is disastrous for the tournament scene imo, and rumors will spread.
Everytime morrow or sjow has a bad day and loses now, the tournament will be plagued with rumors of corruption, even if they dont even have a gain to lose (like the ogstop loss to cool in gsl1).
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With the way things are now(<- please read this line first), i don't see why its a problem already if either morrow/sjow is the only one participating while the other was not.
People seem to be intentionally ignoring the assumption that morrow and sjow are wholly assuming that both of them can win the entire damn tournament. This is particularly important, which i will address later.
Firstly morrow and sjow had said that both of them wanted the computer and seeing that the condition was 11 wins out of 18, they asked that they could fix the matches to let someone win the computer while additionally letting the other player have the experience of playing in the tournament itself. However, the organizer said no. So, the 2 players decided, fine, then 1 of us will play and win the computer instead.
So, assuming that things go as they planned, 1 of them win 11 times and win the computer. Now, remove the above paragraph. 1 of them wins the computer, everyone is happy for him/ pissed that he just rolls everyone and proceeds to share the wininings with someone that has not participated. Now everyone may be pissed that they actually orchestrated the entire thing. But, consider this. Would you have raged at the both of them if..
Only 1 of them had participated, and he wins the entire thing, and had passed the winnings to the other guy in secret?
I have no idea why are people still angry at this point. If the winner decides to pass some of the winnings to the other guy, he is therefore ASSUMING that the other guy would also reach the finals with him. Who would have known what would happen along the way? He might get eliminated by some up and coming rookie. It is therefore the winner's winnings to lose. Sure he got the computer but that is the other guy's loss, he decided that his friendship with the other guy meant that he could give the other guy the computer.
That doesnt mean that i actually approve of their attitude either. its downright disgusting, but there's nothing anyone could probably do unless they could out play them.
EDIT: and morrow is a downright idiot for actually streaming this.
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If it's true, both of them have gone down in my estimation. Not that Morrow could go much further down.
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On December 22 2010 23:33 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow this is so disappointing.
this...100 times.
Are they already banned from their teams? From my point of view it is getting more and more worse after all this prizes and money. I was already disapointed than in TSL Cheaters were caught...these guys are really good players...they dont need to be like this...
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Seems to me that the root of the problem is the way the grand prize in the tournament has been organized. As sjow pointed out the way things work, match fixing is encouraged. None of this would have happened if you simply needed the most wins in order to win the laptop.
Something to keep in mind for tournament organizers out there, we're only human after all...
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On December 22 2010 23:41 Ipp wrote:
This is entirely blown out of proportion and incorrect. Do you honestly think a previous IEM winner is stupid enough to talk about match fixing while streaming? This news story comes from rakaka and as TLO stated in the TeamLiquid post regaurding this situation: “I wouldn’t take news that origins from rakaka too seriously thoe. They are basically the sun of e-sports so always read their posts with caution”.
So what happened? The event is a set of 18 “LAN” tournaments that will not be streamed. If you win 11 out of the 18, you get a very nice computer. As MorroW and SjoW are the only 2 pros competing, they plan to get to the finals every time. As they are equal in skill level, it is unlikely for one them to go 11 and 18. So they discussed making a pact starting that one will always forfeit; why? Because if they unlock all the prizes both of them can get a 1st place prize pool and come out winners.
They were caught talking about doing it, since then they talked to the admins to ask if it was ok. The admin said no, so one of them will drop out but they will still share the prize. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Is it a shame they are avoiding playing eachother so they can make more money? Yes but it’s because of the tournament setup, financially it is a no brainer.
Still don’t understand?
* it’s local LANs with not many spectators and not being streamed
* they talked to admins, the leaked convo was them realizing they could both get a 1st place prize pool
* they were going to forfeit, now one dropped out
* there was never a fixed match
I hope that settles this issue and if you are part of the media please verify before you post. Also shame on any site who just reposted Rakaka’s article, get some original content. In otherwords, Match Fixing? Don’t Worry, tahts BW.
Good post. Everyone should read this, as the whole situation has been blown out of proportion.
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On December 22 2010 23:45 cutler wrote:this...100 times. Are they already banned from their teams? From my point of view it is getting more and more worse after all this prizes and money. I was already disapointed than in TSL Cheaters were caught...these guys are really good players...they dont need to be like this...
banned !?!? for not braking any rules, why the fuck would they be banned, they dont give a #%& that you are dissapointed while getting a 4000$ computer for not playing one game that they dont have to since they arent under a contract to play their best every game
seriously progamers already dont make any money and they find a way to get a bigger prize without braking the rules and they should be banned, seriously wtf ?
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Seems to me that the root of the problem is that nobody seems to bother reading the threads beyond the first page. Not even the last couple of pages. There was no cheating. The leak was after they talked to organizers to ask if it was ok to do what they were chatting about. They were told no so only 1 participates in the tournament. The entire chat most likely took place quite some time before that tournament even started. Just idiotic reporting to get more sensationalism out of the timing of the release of the leak. The article creator would make a great tabloid reporter, and receives the same respect.
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On December 22 2010 23:51 cilinder007 wrote:
banned !?!? for not braking any rules, why the fuck would they be banned, they dont give a #%& that you are dissapointed while getting a 4000$ computer for not playing one game that they dont have to since they arent under a contract to play their best every game
seriously progamers already dont make any money and they find a way to get a bigger prize without braking the rules and they should be banned, seriously wtf ?
yeah seriously..if they dont to play that out...that is not a real competition to me..and E Sports is at least for me about Competition
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This is disgusting but for some reason I am not surprised this is coming from morrow. He is taking a shit on his fans, his sponsors, as well as the people running the tournament.
Basically everyone he needs to survive as a pro gamer. Fucking stupid.
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EPT
