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On December 09 2010 19:39 Kaniol wrote:
It is NEVER too late to switch races, changing mains help you understand matchups vs your previous race way better.
man, change to whatever race suits your personality/character
it's never too early, too late or too often
as for learning vs your previous races, it's so true
in SC1 i switched from zerg to terran and could beat B+ zergs on iCCup,
best mathcup was TvZ, then TvT, then PvZ (i played protoss the worst)
whenever i played zerg (didn't fully switch), best matchup was ZvT, then ZvZ, then ZvP
i always hated mirrors in ZvZ and TvT, but really, not knowing protoss made me worst in both TvP and ZvP.
my advice to you is change your race, get a feel of how other races are and you can always change back if you hate it. this way you get to know your enemy.
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Stick with protoss man, hang in there. But I think just playing some casual games as the other races might help sate your wonderlust
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I have a sc2 Terran shirt. Enough said.
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if you benefit from very good mechanics, protoss is a pretty poor race to pick.
I have to agree with goldenh, there's skill in playing toss, but generally, they are way easier mechanically than zerg or terran. Protoss play is rewarded by a very safe turtle style, and the skill is knowing timings, builds, and unit compositions. But mechanically, there's just not a lot to do with them. That's why you see top level pros with all their protoss units in 1 control group and sometimes you see high level protoss players with sub 100 apm. I can't imagine trying to play tvz with 90 apm, that would be suicide. Both zerg and terran benefit greatly from fantastic micro skills.
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On December 10 2010 03:00 GoldenH wrote:
You really can't do a lot of micro with Protoss other races can. Yes of course you can micro your units to keep them alive, but you can't micro your units TO WIN...
This quote is just too much. Whats the difference, exactly?
Why do protoss micro anything at all then, just for fun? Why place forcefields, why blink stalkers, why micro colossi out of harms way... If you cant win by doing it?
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I was a top gold player with horrid micro skills that got there with Toss. I could not stand getting marines all in at my base. "FF the ramp you noob" well, that is true, I can only use maybe 3 FF before I run out and then they just turtle up by my ramp and blast away.
So, now I play T, it has been a bumpy road getting there, but my micro is much better now and marines are amazing little units. You can split them up and kite everything. Even collosi, if you split your forces up those rays wont melt their faces off!
I think that the stalker needs to have a faster attack, or enable the legs to be upgraded from a forge maybe?
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I read through the post and couldn't help but roll my eyes at a balance whine in the guise of a harmless question. Makes it hard for me to take your question seriously. Do you actually want to change races or did you just want to whine about racial balance?
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On December 10 2010 03:00 GoldenH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 01:43 craz3d wrote:On December 10 2010 00:53 GoldenH wrote:On December 10 2010 00:10 Kyuki wrote:On December 09 2010 23:58 GoldenH wrote:
I agree 100% with the op, there is no reward to getting better with protoss, nothing you can do withcrazy apm, no worthwhile harassment options, if you get to a certain point there is nothing to do but switch races... very sad. DONT LISTEN TO THIS PERSON *ARGH/)(!"/#)(/!"#(&!"#%* It just can't be more wrong, if you don't belive that bigger maps (which will happen) and more macro oriented play wont effect a good high APM Protoss, then you're clueless. Unit positioning is pretty much the most important for protoss out of all races, or atleast hardest, and is something that you will pretty much always loose games due to having bad of (strange sentence I know). The potential in the warp prism and warpgates in general is sick... There will always be room for improvement for players with all races imo. Lol, why can't. He listen to me? Look, obviously protoss reareds some skill or every protoss played would be indistinguishable from huk, but once you'veastered war prisms and unit positioning and getting the unit mix you need when you need it, what then Unlike some posters here I'm not saying that protoss cant win, I'm sure the race can be competative, but simply that there is less to master. All the things that protoss can use help the other races as well. Do you think terrans cant profit from macro or zergs cant profit from saving low health units? Think again. But both races have far more to master that can make them great. Look at zerg in the original starcraft. For a lon time everyone thought they were up because protoss and terran were so easy to get good at. But everyone recognized the potential for zerg spellcasters. There just was no player good enough to use that. Then eventually there was players that were good enough and zerg became the premier race. Eventually terran and protoss caught up. But the difference between zer in sc1 and protoss in sc2 is that there is no unit or ability that protoss has that players are not good enough to use. People talk about warp prisms but do you honestly think they haven't been tried? I even run into warp prism play from plat players for goodness sake. No. There is no protoss ability that players aren't good enough to use. There are only protoss tactics that son't have the potential to make a difference when used at the highest level of skill. And that is why you should switch from protoss. Yes eventually protoss may be figured out or a patch will be released that lets players benefit from their skill. But you will not hone those skills by playing protoss in its present state. You should switch races, and become a better gamer, . Then when protoss is fixed decide if you want to switch back. How do P players not benefit from skill? Protoss is the same as BW, you can't just 1a2a3a into a minefield or into a lurker contain, but you gotta have good micro to diffuse the various situations. The only reasons P players get shafted a lot is because their play always revolves around Robo units since you needs obs to counter banshees, and collo to counter mass hydra play, and immortals to help against roaches since for some reason they rape stalkers who dont have sentry support. The upcoming patch will allow for faster massing of pheonixes which could give protoss some earlier harassment options. I also think it'll freshen up PvP since they could be used to snipe collossi if they are in a big enough mass, which the lower build time will make much easier. to repeat, "Look, obviously protoss requires some skill or every protoss played would be indistinguishable from huk, but once you've mastered war prisms and unit positioning and getting the unit mix you need when you need it, what then" You really can't do a lot of micro with Protoss other races can. Yes of course you can micro your units to keep them alive, but you can't micro your units TO WIN... either your units are able to win in a fight or they aren't, no amount of clicking will make zealots run faster, or stalkers do more DPS, or colossus dodge viking shots. Meanwhile microing terran bio and zerg roach/ling/muta etc has more destructive potential, Protoss is only able to be prepared, it can take a lot of skill to always be prepared, but if the other player is equally prepared, you cannot then have a micro war. It makes Protoss very 1 dimensional and means that there is not a lot of improvement to be had.
This is just so wrong... You must be playing some other race. Microing terran bio is the easiest out of any type of micro. Sure it's awesome to split units and it looks cool, but why is it even possible to begin with? Because your UNITS ARE FAST when stimmed. Considering that most of the protoss army is rather slow, you need to have especially good micro both OUTSIDE of battles (positioning) and INSIDE battles.
Immortals wasting shots off on Marines is a nono but will happen, these needs to be controlled to target marauders / tanks, splitting zealots on charge. Focus fireing with Collosus, and sniping shit with stalkers and spread them fast enough while force fielding and eventually storm+feedback. I don't see how laying a field of EMP and stimming + spread and grab 5 marauders to FF a Collosus while your viking army is shiftclicked on the biggest unit in the game is more micro instense, or even has more potential in making a bigger difference to the fight.
I'm not saying the other races are easier to micro or don't have potential, the surely do and loads of it, but saying that protoss doesnt, is delusional.
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I was a 2k terran and switched to protoss about a month ago, dropped about 200 points to 1800 but now im up to almost 2.2k.
if you feel like swtiching go for it, in a month or two ull probably be comparable to your previous level, in the grand scheme of things playing a race for 4-5 months is nothing
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It seems to me that since your a war 3 player at heart your looking at SC2 the wrong way. While the stutter step and micro ability of units was very important in WC3 it isnt as important in SC2. Besides the zealots arent really supposed to deal lots of damage till you get charge or good forcefields. they are supposed to tank/distract the bio so your stalkers/immortals/whatever can get hits off. Plus they are a pretty good mineral dump.
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I must say I find your point of view interesting! I play protoss 2 and I really like them but I'm just (2200 diamond) so thats in no way close to your rating. I geuss that I just really like the warp mechanism. Furthermore I must agree with your view on the aspects of protoss, geuss we have to wait till some things might get more viable the upcomming changes are a step in the right direction. I also think not everything has been taken in aspect yet, like the possibilities of harash and use of hallicunations etc etc there should be more there. I do disagree on the no micro part, I feel a good protoss army needs alot of micro and it might be one of the more intesive micro races also because of the high hp and high costs you just need to keep units alive otherwise it might cost you the game
Back on your switching part, If I were you I would try to random otherwise maybe that could be an advantage and could help you pick a race, otherwise if you don't want to drop much and your not convident about your other race play you should stick to protoss, cause its still a cool race :D
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Don't take yourself too seriously, mate. You'll end up on the wrong side of history.
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Go for it, knowing all of the races is beneficial as a player. I recently switched my main race from zerg to protoss and while it was difficult to learn PvT (I've played <100 games as T), I'm already climbing higher than I was with zerg. I've actually improved dramatically in the last 6 weeks. Protoss suits my style more than zerg & I didn't realize it until I gave protoss a good shot.
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I love the creepy crawly zerg, so I say, FOR THE SWARM!
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After Reading through all 6 pages so far. I contemplated switching myself stim stutter micro does look cool but thats TvZ and TvP. From the majority of your post is sounds like you are looking at specifically PvT as the major factor in you switching, it sounds like your leaning toward terran from your OP. If you switch you will need to keep in mind that you will probably play a Ton of TvT and if your raxing there won't be alot of the stim stutter micro you seem to admire. Both of you will be stutter microing and no one will be shooting each other.
It sounds like your impressed with the MMM ball its powerful yes its easy yes. Think beyond that into the late think about all the situations that you feel comfortable in as a protoss player and ask will you feel just as comfortable as a terran player. You know the power of storm and colossus. How will you feel on the other side of that scenario when your facing those abilities?
If you want to switch go ahead nothing stopping you and its not to late. Before you do though think of all the matchups and not just PvT/TvP you like stutter micro when will you be using it? Surely not in TvT. Think about dealing with muta's and banelings. You need to consider the things that protoss is strong at and how much you will miss those things if you switch to terran and vice verse.
You like the marine take a look at this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174912 the core of what he is saying is the dependency of the marine in the terran army unlike any other core unit. As the game progresses they just aren't as "Great"
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A. Learning to play TvZ isn't hard: see GSL Ro8.
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go random and be a hero, imo!
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A. Learning to play TvZ isn't hard: see GSL Ro8.
> + Show Spoiler +Just make 2rax , marines, and pull your scv, congratulations , you have defeat nestea.
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The game is still new, there's going to be hundreds of patches. I know it's hard but giving up won't help P advance. Imagine what would have happened if Boxer switched from T to P in SC1.
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EPT
